why no beast (Antichrist) name nor false prophet name given

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,789
7,089
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Composites. We see them everywhere. They are all about us. They are called people. Every single person on the planet is a composite of his ancestors. DNA inherited from the sum total of all who have gone before make up what we are today. Although we are individuals, and unique, that uniqueness is bound up in our inherited genes.

With that in mind I would like to discuss one of the most intriguing composites on the planet. Not an individual, but an institution. Described as a 'beast' in the book of Revelation in chapter 13, this beast has had many Biblical scholars both university educated and self taught, deeply embroiled in debate, argument, and discussion for nearly 2000 years. This beast has been the focus of attention with far more intensity in the past 150 years or so as the church recognises the signs of the second coming approaching, thus study with more interest those prophecies which reveal events, and characters which are pertinent to the 'last days'.

It is the nature of the composites, those things which form the beast, that I will focus on in this post. I have dealt above with the prophecies of Daniel, linking the characteristics of the 'little horn' power of Daniel 7 with those of the papacy, and as we will see here, the beast of Revelation 13 likewise mirrors those characteristics.

Revelation 13:1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revel. 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.


We see here a kingdom rising up in a populous part of the earth, in this case the capital of the then superpower, Rome.


When compared with...

Revel.12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

...we see that whatever this beast is, it is a clone of Satan, the dragon, himself. This is his baby so to speak, his own creation, made after his own likeness.

Revel. 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The Apostle John from his vantage point was looking backwards in time and seeing the same beasts of Daniel 7 only in reverse order. Daniel was looking forward, John back. Thus what John was seeing was a beast that had already begun to rise to power in his day. This gels with his comment in one of his letters that states that " even now are there many antichrists". The spirit that gave rise to the one Antichrist had begun to develop and was seen in several different forms in Johns lifetime. This beast is a composite of all that had gone before. Those characteristics which marked the uniqueness and nature of the previous powers were now resident in this one.

Like unto a leopard....
Nothing in nature, be they plants, animals, reptiles, birds, nor fish, can lie, not having the power of speech, but they can deceive. Deception is attained through appearance, or camouflage. And deception Jesus said, would be Satan's principle weapon of choice in the last days. The leopard is a prime example of camouflage. The leopard, unlike the tiger or the lion, for the most part does not stalk its prey. It patiently lies in wait, in all appearance an innocent part of the foliage, until its prey come to him, then the leopard strikes. The papacy is of very similar character. An attractive and seemingly innocent part of the Christian landscape, but deceptively dangerous. Patience is the hallmark of the Catholic church. For 400 years she has waited for the counter reformation to bear fruit, and today we witness hundreds of priests and lay people from other faiths and denominations now returning to the 'mother church'. Hundreds of years she has waited for her opportunity to rise again to her former glory. Her ambitions are now global, take note of the following from a very recent news report:
The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a "global public authority" and a "central world bank" to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises.....A proposal by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace calls for a new world economic order based on ethics and the "achievement of a universal common good." It follows Pope BenedictXVI's 2009 economic encyclical that denounced a profit-at-all-cost mentality as responsible for the global financial meltdown. There have been dozens of similar encyclicals and speeches at political global summits over recent years, all advocating for the same thing. And all leading to the same result. A global NWO with the Pope as head of state. And placed there by the second beast of Revelation, the United States.

Isn't this interesting? Particularly when one considers the prophetic implications of an international authority with the power to enforce a religious mark using economic boycotts to encourage subservience.

Notice one more thing about leopards. Jesus Himself significantly remarked that a leopard cannot change her spots. It is worthwhile to note that many protestants today would claim that the papacy has changed. That she has mellowed from her former harsh judgemental attitudes which marked her history throughout the dark ages. But can a leopard change her character? No.
Jer. 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

The feet of a bear....

Death is, until the resurrection, like a deep dreamless sleep. In 1798 the papacy received its deadly head-wound (Verse 3) when the then pope was taken captive by the French, and the Catholic church 'ceased to range over the country-side' like a bear and went into hibernation until 1929 when Mussolini returned to the Vatican, (Treaty of Verona) and the pope, the civil power which had been taken from her. Once again she was a church/state power, the unique distinction which marks her pagan beginnings.
The feet and claws of a bear are her most powerful weapons: one strike can rip open her prey, killing instantly. The injunction in Daniel 7:5 of the bear/Media-Persia to "devour much flesh" is very apt when applied to such a beast as a bear which has a ravenous appetite especially after hibernation. Whether in hibernation, or as a leopard or bear, whether in patient hiding or as a ravenous beast on the hunt, the Vatican will do whatever is necessary to achieve her goals...global dominion. She murdered millions throughout Europe during the 1260 years of her dominion there, but is prophecied to do so again, only globally.
An interesting point regarding this particular bear. The Media/Persians, which nation was represented by the bear in Daniel, were renowned as lawmakers.

Daniel 6:8 Now, O king, establish the decree, and sign the writing, that it be not changed, according to the law of the Medes and Persians, which altereth not.

"Why does the Catholic church not recant what was said by Trent...because it is Catholic teaching that a council teaches authoritatively, and the church is not authorised to repudiate retrospectively a conciliar decree".
John Neuhaus.

Every principle of the papacy that existed in past ages exists today.The doctrines devised in the darkest ages are still held. The leopard has not, indeed cannot, change her spots. The laws, canons, and various decrees which vaunted the papal power's presumed authority to torture, to wage war, and to destroy all who believe in their God given right to freedom of conscience, still exist today. Not one has been abrogated or altered. Their own dogma regarding infallibility forbids any change to that which has been officially legislated as articles of doctrine in the dogmas and canons of the Catholic Church. The inquisition, torture, and burning of heretics in past ages are still looked upon by the ruling councils of the Vatican as justifiable, lawful, and at times even necessary.


mouth of a lion....

Ask a native of Africa what the most fearsome sound is in the African bush and all would agree that it is the roar of the lion. Various bulls and pronouncements from popes and his representatives have for centuries sent chills of fear and dread down the spines of kings and common man alike. There was a time, until the late 18th century, when a pronouncement of excommunication from the church could send an entire nation into a state of fear of eternal damnation in the fires of hell. Like the devil, "as a roaring lion walketh about seeking who he may devour" the papacy has no true authority in spiritual matters. It is the fear, rather than the popes words themselves, that has destroyed the faith of millions. "But we have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but rather the spirit of adoption" (Romans 8:15) "and of power, and of love, and a sound mind". (2 Tim. 1:7) Notice the mouth "speaking great things and blasphemies" (Rev.13:15). Since its re-establishment in 1929, the Vatican has slowly but surely wooed herself into becoming once again a world power, and presidents and royalty alike present themselves to the pope bowing before him, kissing the ring upon his finger, and wait in awe and reverence to hear his words...."and all the world wonders after the beast". (Revel. 13:5)
 
  • Like
Reactions: CTK

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,417
259
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yet the 7 mountains are not. The woman sits, not sat, on all 7 so the mountains are not the sequential
The 7 mountains are not sequential. The 7 kings are.

The heads are not kings and the two periods of 3.5 years are different than the one in Rev 13.
The text of Revelation 17:10 says kings. And in Revelation 12 those 7 heads have crowns - verifying that the seven heads are seven kings in Revelation 17:10.

Revelation 12 break down:
1260 days + the undisclosed war in the second heaven time + the time, times, half time = 2520 days (7 years)

Revelation 11 break down:
1260 days + 3 1/2 days + 42 months (1256 1/2 days) = 2520 days (7 years)

No king is killed, and the crowns not being on the heads doesn't equal a death anyways. Everything in Rev 12 is BEFORE the war against Christians starts which is the 42 months.
Not having crowns on the seven heads alone does not equal death, I agree. But the verse of Revelation 13:3 does indicate death to one of the seven heads - one of the seven kings.

Never is there an 8th heads `for the ten horned beast. It only ever has 7. The 8 kings are unrelated to the 7 mountains.
No-one is saying there are eight heads. The 8th king is one of the 7 kings, formerly. Since the first 6 kings are accounted for in Revelation 17:10, it will be king 7 who will be killed and comes back to life as king 8 - the beast-king.
 
Last edited:

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,417
259
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Anti- as in antichrist, according to Strong's concordance, and like other words having the prefix 'anti', means at it's most basic form "in the room of", "instead of", or "in the place of".
Noel, Noel...Born is the King of Israel.



To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah - instead of and against the rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

Being the Antichrist is Stage 3 of the person on my chart below.

image4.jpg
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,417
259
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
For 1260 years, 538 to 1798, the papal Church persecuted Christians that refused to surrender their Sovereignty to the Roman pontiff.
She boasted of her authority to change God's laws.
She named her Pope titles that belong only to God.
She claimed prerogatives that belong only to God.
She claimed to be the sole mediator n between God and man.
She claimed the mass was a necessary repetition of the sacrifice of Christ.
Sure is the true Antichrist of Scripture. She has fulfilled every single criteria that prophecy requires.
The pope, the papacy, is not the Antichrist. To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah. The pope, papacy does not qualify, nor fit. The person must be a Jew, and his religion Judaism.
 

Gottservant

Well-Known Member
Oct 19, 2022
2,323
678
113
46
Greensborough
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
John wrote what he saw and heard.

Surely he saw the name of the beast written on people's foreheads. As well as, saw the mark of the beast. As well as, heard the name of the false prophet.

So why did John not write those things down ?

It is because when the voices of the seven thunders spoke in Revelation 10:4, John was told not to write down what they uttered.

So in the utterances of those thundering voices, was the names of the beast and false prophet, and what the mark of the beast will be.

Which John, therefore, did not write down anywhere in Revelation.
I like the connection you are attempting to make, but it is still speculation.

The number of the name of the anti-Christ is given for someone with wisdom to work out - it is meant to leave a path of escape for the godly.

You probably don't realise that you already resist the anti-Christ, out of a conviction in your soul (that nothing should take Jesus Christ from you). I say this out of compassion.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,789
7,089
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Noel, Noel...Born is the King of Israel.



To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah - instead of and against the rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

Being the Antichrist is Stage 3 of the person on my chart below.

View attachment 53265
Sorry, but rather than your chart, I will rely on Scripture. The Antichrist is not an individual, but an apostate Christian church. No individual can possibly meet every criteria for a true identification of the Antichrist. Only a succession of individual leaders over the one institution. Beasts remember are never individuals. They are powers, nations, or empires. The little horn grew out of Rome. It grew to be exceeding great. It manifested in later times as a beast in its own right...a composite of the 4 beasts that preceded it, from which it inherited its character and mindset. It is a counterfeit Christ in the form of an institutional body professing Christianity and all the while practising extreme wickedness and evil, persecuting the saints and opposing Christ a kiss. People today are utterly deceived. Waiting in eager anticipation for an instant escape from some future imagined warmongering anti Christian warlord, while chatting with the real antichrist who is leaning over the back fence inviting you to a barbecue.
 

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
9,789
7,089
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The pope, the papacy, is not the Antichrist. To become the Antichrist, the person must be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah. The pope, papacy does not qualify, nor fit. The person must be a Jew, and his religion Judaism.
Prove it.

I've shown you from scripture a logical easy to follow chain linked explanation as to who the antichrist is. You've shown me a chart.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,164
1,424
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The 7 mountains are not sequential. The 7 kings are.

You think they are all the same things though. The 7 heads are not the 8 kings.


The text of Revelation 17:10 says kings. And in Revelation 12 those 7 heads have crowns - verifying that the seven heads are seven kings in Revelation 17:10.

No, because the 7 kings are not existing at the same time like the heads are.
Not having crowns on the seven heads alone does not equal death, I agree. But the verse of Revelation 13:3 does indicate death to one of the seven heads - one of the seven kings.


No death is spoken of, only a wound and healing and never about it happening to a person. When the 6 kings die, they never get "healed" They are dead and gone. The 7th/8th kings or kings also aren't killed in any part of Rev 13.





No-one is saying there are eight heads. The 8th king is one of the 7 kings, formerly.


But that's still the number 8 being used. Never is there an 8th head/mountain.


Since the first 6 kings are accounted for in Revelation 17:10, it will be king 7 who will be killed and comes back to life as king 8 - the beast-king.

There is nothing about any king being killed and coming back to life in Rev 13. You are misunderstanding what is happening. A deadly wound that isn't healed would be a death but the wound gets healed so no death and no resurrection is involved.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,417
259
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No, because the 7 kings are not existing at the same time like the heads are.
The seven heads are seven mountains, a location where the woman sits. The seven heads also represent seven kings associated with that location. The location is Rome.

The 7th/8th kings or kings also aren't killed in any part of Rev 13.
The 7th king is killed and brought back to life as the beast-king before the 42 months of Revelation 13 begin. He will be killed for his transgression of desolation act. And brought back to life a week or so later.



Events ToD to AoD.jpg


But that's still the number 8 being used. Never is there an 8th head/mountain.
No one is saying there is an 8th head nor 8th mountain.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,417
259
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Antichrist is not an individual, but an apostate Christian church. No individual can possibly meet every criteria for a true identification of the Antichrist. Only a succession of individual leaders over the one institution. Beasts remember are never individuals. They are powers, nations, or empires.
"Antichrist" is a singular word.

"the beast' will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Being alive indicates a living person. An individual known as "the beast" individually.

In 2Peter2:12, Peter referred to persons particularly harsh, lawless, disrespectful of others, as being "brute beasts".

Beasts can refer to kingdoms, empires. But also as individual persons. It depends upon the context of how the word is used.

The little horn person in Daniel 8 is the "time of the end". It is not talking about the bishop of Rome, which his successors later became know as popes.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,164
1,424
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The seven heads also represent seven kings associated with that location.

The future 7 heads that exist all at the same time do not represent sequential kings that died in the past.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,164
1,424
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Antichrist" is a singular word.

"the beast' will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Being alive indicates a living person.


Nope. Plants and animals and insects are alive but aren't people. The ten horned beast is a kingdom not a person. It is described as alive symbolically.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,164
1,424
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
plants and animals are not the beast that will be cast alive in the lake of fire.


But a beast can symbolically be alive and be killed and not be a person such as Daniel's 4th beast, one with ten horns like Rev 13's ten horned beast. It's not a person in Daniel, and it isn't a person in Rev either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jay Ross

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,417
259
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But a beast can symbolically be alive and be killed and not be a person such as Daniel's 4th beast, one with ten horns like Rev 13's ten horned beast. It's not a person in Daniel, and it isn't a person in Rev either.
In Daniel 7, out of the four kingdom manifested in the end times, the little horn emerging after the ten kings (the ten horns) is the person as the little horn (Stage 1 on my chart).

In Revelation 13, the mortally wounded/but healed head on the beast is the person as the beast-king (Stage 5 on my chart}. And the ten horns, ten kings, have crowns because in Revelation 17:12 it says they receive power as kings one hour with the beast - the 42 months.


image4.jpg
 
Last edited:

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,164
1,424
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Daniel 7, out of the four kingdom manifested in the end times, the little horn emerging after the ten kings (the ten horns) is the person as the little horn (Stage 1 on my chart).

In Revelation 13, the mortally wounded/but healed head on the beast is the person as the beast-king (Stage 5 on my chart}.

The heads are mountains not kings. There is no singular person involved in the 10 horned beast.

Daniel - ten horned beast arises, the little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.

Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet with two little horns comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.
 

Douggg

Well-Known Member
Nov 26, 2020
3,417
259
83
76
Memphis
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The heads are mountains not kings. There is no singular person involved in the 10 horned beast.
The ten horns are ten kings.

Revelation 17:
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

So the ten kings give their kingdom to the beast, as he beocmes the beast-king.

Daniel - ten horned beast arises, the little horn comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. Little horn is the antichrist.
The little horn person eventually becomes the Antichriist.

Revelation - ten horned beast arises, false prophet with two little horns comes next and is the person of authority and power over the ten horned beast. False prophet is the antichrist.
No, the false prophet is the false prophet - not a king.

The Antichrist will for a while be the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews. Stage 3 on my chart.


image4.jpg
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
7,164
1,424
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The ten horns are ten kings.

And so in symbology the heads would not also be kings, and they aren't. They are mountains which in the greek can be hills, literal mountains or even islands. Clearly the ten horns are kings with kingdoms and those kingdoms are established within 7 mountains or areas of land above sea level.




Revelation 17:
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

So the ten kings give their kingdom to the beast, as he beocmes the beast-king.


There is no such becoming anything in the text though. It does not exist.


The little horn person eventually becomes the Antichriist.

Nope. Who ever the AC is, he is the AC from the start with no becoming.


No, the false prophet is the false prophet - not a king.

Wrong. He exercises all power and authority of the first beast which is a giant kingdom as it is in Daniel. This makes the FP a king, or leader or whatever term someone wants to use.




The Antichrist will for a while be the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews.

Another thing the bible never states. He is leader of a global kingdom, so technically a king of every country but never is there anything about him specifically being made a king by the nation of Israel.