The battle of Gog and Magog does not happen until after the thousand year reign of Christ

[Lizbeth]

Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.

23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lordhave spoken it.

25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.

27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.

28 And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.

29 And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.

30 Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God.

31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God.

Many scriptures such as these were already fulfilled with the advent of the Messiah/Christ and His gospel. We are looking for a heavenly kingdom, new heaven/earth (ie, spiritual/heavenly), not an earthly one. And so shall we FOREVER be with the Lord.

 

[marks]

I haven't got hold of everything in Rev yet, but one thing I realized is that we err if we try to interpret earlier scrips working backwards from Rev. We need rather to interpret Rev in light of all the scriptures that were written before.

We can interpret each in their own right, and harmonize the results without needing to "re-imagine" any of the passages.

I believe that using Peter's simile for God's patience as an instruction to interpret 1,000 years as a single day in other passges is incorrect, and out of context.

I believe if we read the Revelation as a narrative prophecy as are all the rest of the prophecies, then it all fits.

Much love!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Exactly. It's very strange how he emphasizes the reigning of the priests and kings on earth, but seems to completely ignore that it says we have been MADE kings and priests now. So, the reigning has to present tense since we are on the earth NOW and have already been MADE priests and kings. Only doctrinal bias can keep someone from seeing this.

Indeed. It sounds like someone who believes that being priests and kings on Earth in the future is all about some physical cities and people to rule over as if someone has been watching too much Game of Thrones. No, it is a spiritual kingdom that Christ gave us the authority on EARTH to preach Gospel on His behalf which is why in the end we will sit upon thrones with Him, just for doing His will on Earth.

Mat 25:34-40
(34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
(36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
(38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
(39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Many believers may not realize that what they're doing is actually doing God's work. For example, sharing the gospel with those who are spiritually hungry and thirsty, welcoming strangers who was once outside the CommonWealth of Israel, clothing those who are spiritually naked, helping others repent from their spiritual sickness (sins), and freeing those in spiritual bondage (prison). When we go out and share the gospel, we are actually doing the Lord's work for our fellow believers. Just as God used Christ to preach the gospel, Christ is using us to do the same. Therefore, in the end, because we did these work on behalf of Christ for the "least of brethren" after us, Christ will reward us the thrones next to Him just as God the Father gave Christ the Throne for his ministry.

Amen!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee.

10 Thus saith the Lord God; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:

11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

Deuteronomy 30:3
That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

Isaiah 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Jeremiah 3:17
At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord;and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Jeremiah 29:14
And I will be found of you, saith the Lord: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gatheryou from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the Lord; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.

Jeremiah 31:10
Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Ezekiel 39:27
When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Many scriptures such as these were already fulfilled with the advent of the Messiah/Christ and His gospel.

Nope, you would be mistaken.

 

[Lizbeth]

Revelation 20:14 KJV
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I'd say this is when death is defeated, though after the 1,000 years following Jesus physical return to earth.

Much love!

Hmmm.....so no judgment day until after a future thousand year reign? How will it be determined who will reign with Christ during a future thousand years if there is no judgment day until after it?

 

[marks]

Hmmm.....so no judgment day until after a future thousand year reign? How will it be determined who will reign with Christ during a future thousand years if there is no judgment day until after it?

These reign with Christ, they who were martyred for their faith by the beast.

Revelation 20:4 KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There doesn't need to be a judgment day for Jesus to know those who are His.

Much love!

 

[TribulationSigns]

These reign with Christ, they who were martyred for their faith by the beast.

Revelation 20:4 KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There doesn't need to be a judgment day for Jesus to know those who are His.

Even as illustrated in Revelation chapter 20 depicting that 1000 year millennial kingdom (Church) and judgment we have with Christ:

Revelation 20:4

• "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Please note that we have ALREADY been given judgment, and the "when to judge" is whenever you bear witness to the truth. RIGHT NOW! Speaking of the faithful church the Bible says:

Revelation 11:5

• "And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."

That word out of the church's mouth is the judgment that has been given to them as they live and reign with Him since the Cross. That occurred when we were translated from the power of darkness into His spiritual Kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hmmm.....so no judgment day until after a future thousand year reign? How will it be determined who will reign with Christ during a future thousand years if there is no judgment day until after it?

No. Judgment day will occur on the last day. Jesus said that both the resurrection of believers and the judgment of unbelievers will occur on the last day.

John 6: And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

So, those who try to say that the first resurrection is the mass bodily resurrection of believers that occurs on the day Christ returns and that unbelievers are judged 1,000+ years later are contradicting Jesus's teaching that both things will happen when the last day arrives, which is the day of His return.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Many scriptures such as these were already fulfilled with the advent of the Messiah/Christ and His gospel. We are looking for a heavenly kingdom, new heaven/earth (ie, spiritual/heavenly), not an earthly one. And so shall we FOREVER be with the Lord.

Amen. Look at what Abraham and the Old Testament saints were looking for and what Peter said we are looking for. Premils are wrong for looking for a temporal earthly kingdom which contradicts what scripture says we should be looking for.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Deuteronomy 30:3
That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

Isaiah 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Jeremiah 3:17
At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord;and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.

Jeremiah 29:14
And I will be found of you, saith the Lord: and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gatheryou from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you, saith the Lord; and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.

Jeremiah 31:10
Hear the word of the Lord, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

Ezekiel 39:27
When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

Your carnal way of looking at things is keeping you from seeing the spiritual application of these verses.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?...........41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[Lizbeth]

These reign with Christ, they who were martyred for their faith by the beast.

Revelation 20:4 KJV
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

There doesn't need to be a judgment day for Jesus to know those who are His.

Much love!

Brother Jesus warned us not to be deceived by those who are looking for an earthly kingdom that is seen with physical eyes....lo here it is, or there it is. Beware, because that is going to deceive and trip people up in the end, both Jew and Gentile. The kingdom is within/among us....we are looking for a new Jerusalem, the Jerusalem and kingdom that is ABOVE. The Israel of God.....it is spiritual/heavenly. "New" in scripture implies something that is spiritual, like we have become a "new" creation when we received Christ, His Spirit.

 

[Lizbeth]

We can interpret each in their own right, and harmonize the results without needing to "re-imagine" any of the passages.

I believe that using Peter's simile for God's patience as an instruction to interpret 1,000 years as a single day in other passges is incorrect, and out of context.

I believe if we read the Revelation as a narrative prophecy as are all the rest of the prophecies, then it all fits.

Much love!

No, not a single day, it is talking about a long period of time of longsuffering and grace, giving mankind time/opportunity to find the Lord and be saved.

Heb 3:13-15

but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,

Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”


The “Today” that is being spoken of is a loooooong day, not a literal day.

 

[Lizbeth]

Your carnal way of looking at things is keeping you from seeing the spiritual application of these verses.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?...........41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Amen...gathered like sheep to the their true Shepherd and His gospel.

 

[marks]

Brother Jesus warned us not to be deceived by those who are looking for an earthly kingdom that is seen with physical eyes....lo here it is, or there it is. Beware, because that is going to deceive and trip people up in the end, both Jew and Gentile. The kingdom is within/among us....we are looking for a new Jerusalem, the Jerusalem and kingdom that is ABOVE. The Israel of God.....it is spiritual/heavenly. "New" in scripture implies something that is spiritual, like we have become a "new" creation when we received Christ, His Spirit.

Acts 1:6-7 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Matthew 19:28 KJV
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

There will be a kingdom.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Beware, because that is going to deceive and trip people up in the end, both Jew and Gentile. The kingdom is within/among us....we are looking for a new Jerusalem, the Jerusalem and kingdom that is ABOVE. The Israel of God.....it is spiritual/heavenly. "New" in scripture implies something that is spiritual, like we have become a "new" creation when we received Christ, His Spirit.

May I ask you . . . do you see the church to be "spiritual Israel"?

Much love!

 

[Lizbeth]

Acts 1:6-7 KJV
6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Matthew 19:28 KJV
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

There will be a kingdom.

Much love!

The kingdom was restored to Israel when they became a sovereign nation again in 1948. That question is not talking about the kingdom of God/Christ. Israel was under Roman rule at the time they asked that......and later of course the Jews were even ejected from Israel in 70AD.

The twelve tribes is speaking of the church.....there are tribes in the church spiritually speaking......speaking of gifts and callings I believe. The number twelve figures prominently with new Jerusalem.

 

[Lizbeth]

May I ask you . . . do you see the church to be "spiritual Israel"?

Much love!

The bible speaks of both "Israel after the flesh" and "the Israel of God". The church is the Israel of God. Israel after the flesh refers to the nation of Israel and Jewish people in general.

 

[marks]

The bible speaks of both "Israel after the flesh" and "the Israel of God". The church is the Israel of God. Israel after the flesh refers to the nation of Israel and Jewish people in general.

OK, I thought as much. Those who consider the church to be Isreal will of necessity have a very different interpretation of the prophecies from those who do not.

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

Then why did Jesus say in verse 34...

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

...?

Why do you truncate verse 34 from the parable ?

Douggg because it is not part of the parable told in verse 32. Verse 32 has a time span of around 1100 + years yet you want to use verse 34 to limit that timespan of verse 32 to around no more than 100 years.

Something is not quite right if people's understanding has such a diversity in the time span being presented in these few verses. I believe that the problem is with your understanding of the meaning of the word "generation" which also used to describe an age.

Goodbye