Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[GodsGrace]

Good. I guess we'll see how it plays out, yes? :)


Hmmm... well maybe that's because of where you've interacted with them. Message boards like this one are well-intentioned, but the behaviors you see out of posters, reformed or otherwise, very often can bring out... well, I won't say the worst, but poorness of character... in people. :) And that's not limited to certain theological views... :) ...but you're right, does not make for good conversation at all.


Probably not, but God works in mysterious ways... :)


Sorry, I don't even understand the question...


I agree on both counts. But God is sovereign over everything. Maybe He had a much higher purpose in it...? :)


I... think I did... I did underline (emphasize) specific thing in there...


I find this statement of yours just dripping with humility, which... is just awesome. Really. I mean, it's just so cool. Thank you. Yes, if you want to break it apart and address it more bite-sized pieces, I'm very open to doing so.


LOL! That's not such an inaccurate description, I guess. Didn't mean to do that... :)

Grace and peace to you.

Hi PS
I went back to your other post and picked 3 or 4 verses and I'll go over them.
I can't remember if I stated that predestination is in the NT.
But it's always for PURPOSE or for HOW or for WHY but never for WHO....
If this method is applied to all verses, using context, the understanding always turns out to be
one of the above reason.

So here is one of your verses:

Ephesians 1:3-13
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
In heavenly places....as if we were already in heaven !

4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
God chose us IN CHRIST before the beginning.
Those who be be chosen, would be chosen because we are IN CHRIST.
The jailer asked how he could be saved....
BELIEVE IN THE LORD JESUS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED. Acts 16:31
This is how one is saved and will be IN CHRIST....by believing in the Lord...
not by waiting for God to chose the person. Paul instructed the jailer TO BELIEVE, an act of the will.


5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Ditto. God predestined us.....to WHAT?
as sons through Jesus Christ.
God's will is that all men be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4 GOD DESIRES THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED.
BUT they must WANT to be saved....they must believe, as instructed throughout the NT.
Romans 10:10 WITH THE H EART MAN BELEIVES
and
Romans 10:9 IF we confess with our mouth

Again,,,a HOW not a WHO.

6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight
9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him
11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Here it's abundantly clear that we're predestined for A PURPOSE,,,,according to God's will.

12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.
Our hope is in Christ....not in waiting to be chosen.
(when we believe....John 3:16)

13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
AFTER LISENING to the message of the gosple.....HAVING BELIEVED...
Listen: Having Believed
AFTER
Listening
to the gosple...we were then sealed.

Everything else I underlined above shows the context of what Paul is saying....
everything he mentions is about being in Jesus, about things being in Him, things God purposed In Him, etc.

Could you show how the above is incorrect?

Also, how do you explain Romans 10:9-10 and Acts 16:31 ?

 

[GodsGrace]

wow. No pride here. And I see your follower just loves your sarcastic demeaning, attack on someone else.



Once again, Put down your calvinist playbook. open the bible and study.

Amen, She would agree with you as do I


Actually its you looking through your foggy calvin lens.

Are you sure she think Gods lied. or are you just looking again through your calvinist lense?

God said we are saved by GRACE THROUGH FAITH.

You can not remove faith from the equation. there is no grace applied without faith.



lol. Yet I have showed you at least passages that show we were saved after we believed or had faith.

lol. What bible do you read?

Yet people do it all the time. Paul called the jewish religious people fools. for thinking they begin in the spirit and perfect in the flesh.

Just because we have people who reject does not mean that it is not offered.




lol.. Many thousands maybe millions have done that very thing.

The only other option we have is we have an evil God who claims to be a God of love but is a God of hate, and does not even give them the ability to be saved, He chose them to be born into this sinful world. just to send them to hell

Which is what your flawed theology teaches

lol. Typical calvinist logic. Again put your calvinist playbook down.

No my friend, YOU have a very low view of God.

God says he is perfect in Justice and Love.


You claim he is sort of perfect in justice, and is totally flawed in Love

Great post !

 

[GodsGrace]

amazing how far people will go to continue in their belief system..

OK
Here's what I have a really difficult time with....
How does anyone trust any doctrine that came about 1,500 years after Jesus left His Apostles to carry on?!

Does this not mean that the teachings of A MAN are being followed?
Like the JWs, the Mormons, Scientology, etc.
Of course it means this.

So why do some think Calvinism is any different?
IT'S THE SAME !!

Every Christian denomination, except for the reformed, has abandoned these teachings because it's so obvious that
these people are serving a different God.

Just like Islam who follows another MAN.

I like to read the NT plainly and pay attention to what JESUS states.

This is why we're called CHRISTians. Little Christs.
Because we follow Christ...NOT JOHN CALVIN or any other man.
:)

 

[JLB]

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that John 15:6 is a commandment as it clearly is not. Jesus is simply stating a fact, there is nothing in it to suggest that it's command to anyone. I understand "If anyone does not abide in Me", to mean that those who are not truly born again, will be exposed as false converts because they did not bare any fruit. So they are cast out as a withered branch.

How does a "false convert" remain in Christ?

You are dangerously applying your own "understanding" to the words of Christ.

I find this to be the case more and more, people just making up their own doctrine rather than reading and believing the words of truth and applying them to their life.


Let's look at some context -


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

• “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit;

• If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

The contextual teaching here is about those who are in Christ.

No mention of false converts. Only those who are in Christ.

Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain in Christ -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Great post !

Thank you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OK
Here's what I have a really difficult time with....
How does anyone trust any doctrine that came about 1,500 years after Jesus left His Apostles to carry on?!

well we have to be careful. because for those 1500 years. the power of rome held anything that did not follow them as heresy, they would imprison, outcast even murder people they considered heretics..

Me personally. I do not look to history to test my faith.. or to find out what different men believed. I try to look to God and test what anyone says.. assuming there are no perfect people on earth. and we all get things wrong..

Does this not mean that the teachings of A MAN are being followed?

In this case. Yes, You can see the signs (like him calling you and me arminian, a typical calvinist ploy. There aregument and anger is against Arminian theology. not against anyone else. so they look for key words and when they hear them they are programmed to pounce.

I have seen it from not only these two sides. but also other denominations, Including the roman catholic denomination, for years (I used to do it myself),

Like the JWs, the Mormons, Scientology, etc.
Of course it means this.

So why do some think Calvinism is any different?
IT'S THE SAME !!

Every Christian denomination, except for the reformed, has abandoned these teachings because it's so obvious that
these people are serving a different God.

Just like Islam who follows another MAN.

I like to read the NT plainly and pay attention to what JESUS states.

This is why we're called CHRISTians. Little Christs.
Because we follow Christ...NOT JOHN CALVIN or any other man.
:)

Even paul warned not to be followers of men,.

“I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or to put everyone to shame, and pull out the Christ card,, “I am of Christ.”

we do it today only we have different names

I am of Luther, I am of the pope, I am of Calvin, I am of Arminius etc etc..

 

[JBO]

At a time in the future. a time that only God knows about. All of Israel on thei earth will look to the one they pierced. after they all have confessed their sin, the sin of their fathers, and received Jesus as their messiah..

rom 11:
26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

The they in all three of these verses Are Israel. the sons of Jacob, The Natural branches. The one who at this time are blinded in part. who have rejected their messiah and are now enemies of the gospel.

Paul quoted an OT prophecy concerning Israel (the nation)

The quote comes from Is 59, where Israel is confessing her sin, after being separated from God because of her sins against him. God said he will not forget them, he will come to them (Zion) and deliver them from their sins and their rebellion.

Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Rom 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;

so this means God is not going to do what he promised?

Is everyone on earth going to be saved?

Romans 9: 6 is making a case against a Jewish argument.,.

Romans 11 is Paul completed the argument in answer has the word of god failed..

 

[JLB]

I am of Luther, I am of the pope, I am of Calvin, I am of Arminius etc etc..

Yes sir!

I am in good company here!

Christians are those who follow the teachings of Christ.

Calvinist's are those who follow the teachings of John Calvin.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

 

[One 2 question]

I am not Israel. I am a gentile believer, If I were to enter the 1000 year reign of Christ, I would be a gentile believer living in the nation of where God put me. I would not be living in the land of Canaan, which is not mine, and never will be.

I would suggest thinking along the lines of what Jesus said to His first disciples who served with Christ in the flesh (3 years or so) and with His Spirit after that. Who and where did they serve? The Jews in Israel. Who and where will WILL they serve in Jesus's millennial kingdom?

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Mat 19:27&28

Who and where are you serving now in this life? Don't be surprised if you are rewarded by serving them there in Jesus's coming kingdom as their king and priest. (Rev 5:9&10)

So you are probably right when you said, I would not be living in the land of Canaan, which is not mine.
But technically your next comment I would say may not be correct, 'and never will be'. The New Jerusalem according to what John was shown came down in Israel. So we will live in that massive city in Israel. But sure we will probably come and go from there as we continue to serve those we have been serving in this life and in Jesus's 1000 year kingdom.

 

[One 2 question]

I agree. And God said they will repent. and that he will restore them, in fact. all of them will be saved.

And he gave us Gentile beliers a warning.

Why would he warns us not to boast, if we were part of that Israel that would be saved. That makes no sense. and to me, that is doing exactly the opposite of what Paul warned the church not to do.

Great point. I'm with you. I am not going to consider myself, a Gentile, to be greater or even equal to the natural branches, Israelites. Nor will I put them down in any way. In fact I pray for them as they have a very special place in my heart.

For whose names are above the 12 gates leading into the city Jesus has gone to prepare for us? Whose names are on the 12 foundations of this city?They are all Isrealites!

Isn't it fantastic that we as Gentile believers have been grafted into Christ the King of the Jews. What a display of God's grace.

 

[One 2 question]

Christians are those who follow the teachings of Christ.

Calvinist's are those who follow the teachings of John Calvin.

And greater still, those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons and daughters of God.

Not just the past teachings of Jesus the Christ when He was in human form but those who hear His voice throughout each day and follow Him.

Why seek Me amoung the dead. I have risen and been glorified. I sit in heaven and speak to you through my living Spirit Who is in you. Don't limit Me to the pages of a book.

 

[PinSeeker]

So you are not you saying that the purpose of grafting the Gentiles into the vine, is just a means to an end, to provoke the descendants of Jacob, Isaac and Abraham to become jealous so that they will by whatever means come to an acceptance of and faith in their Messiah who they rejected.

Well, what is the "end?" In Romans 9 through 11, what is God's end? It is God's saving all of His elect, which includes Jews and Gentiles... bringing His Israel to completion. And I would say that God, by the work of His Spirit in a person's heart ~ "provoking" someone to a godly jealousy (*) is one way in which He might do that. Paul is speaking from a personal standpoint there, saying that we aches for something to happen that they might come to Jesus in faith. And he knows that it is the Spirit Who causes that to happen; the Holy Spirit, according to the will of God, gives us this new birth, thereby converting us to Christ, and thus making us part of God's Israel

(*) God created us, and he gave us all kinds of emotions, and jealousy is one of those. We tend to think of jealousy as a bad thing, and if we are Christians, a sinful thing, but that is not necessarily the case. There is such a thing as godly jealousy. Think of it in terms of evangelism... if someone sees the joy we have in Jesus, they might want to have that same joy ~ a godly jealousy ~ and thus be led by the Spirit and converted to Christ in their heart, which is a work of the Holy Spirit.

Are there other reasons for us Gentile for being grafted into their (the cut off Jews) spot on the vine?

I would hesitate to day anything about "taking their spot." Many unbelieving Jews will come to belief in Jesus, in which case they are regrafted into the Vine:

"even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree" (Romans 11:23-24).​

Are there any other benefits for the natural branches than just being descendants and belonging to the tribes of Jacob, whose father was Isaac and his father the father of faith, Abraham?

Paul did mention something about this.
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Rom 9:4&5

Apologies... I don't really understand what you are asking here. I would just say that the outward, physical descendants of Abraham (ethnic Jews) have a sort of advantage ~ more immediate access ~ to all of this because they are ethnic Jews, physical descendants of Abraham... to them these things were originally given, as opposed to Gentiles. But "more immediate" does not mean "easier"... to be born again of the Spirit ~ which, as Jesus says to Nicodemus in John 3:5-6, is absolutely necessary for anyone to enter into the Kingdom of God ~ is still, and always will be, a work of the Spirit (God). Remember, Jesus ~ in reply to His disciples' asking Him, "Who then can be saved?" ~ looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:25-26), and maybe even more clearly with Mark's recording of the same exchange, "With man it is impossible, but not with God. For all things are possible with God" (Mark 10:27).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Will they, the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and his son Jacob, not Esau, all be saved as Paul prophesied?

All the ones that are elect of God. As Paul says, "not all who are descended..." (physically) "...from Israel belong to Israel, ..." (the Israel of God) "...and not all are children of Abraham because they are his..." (physical) "... offspring..." I would disagree that Paul prophesied that all the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and his son Jacob will be saved, and in fact quite the opposite... not all.

And does being saved mean being redeemed or born again, in Christ or grafted back in?

Yes.

So is this like, if Jesus was operated on because His kidney was shot and He received a kidney transplant, that replacement kidney is now a part of Jesus, and that kidney can now identify as Jesus?

If so, then me being inside of Jesus, a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob means I can identify as Abraham's offspring?

LOL! Sorry, I'm not laughing at you, I just... well, frankly, I don't even understand this, really. Well, maybe I do... I guess I would just say... yes, in a manner of speaking. But maybe that doesn't make much sense to you. I guess I would just say this, that a person, at any point in his or her life, is either:

• in Adam ~ this is the natural human condition in which we are born, "dead in our sin," which is to say absolutely sinful in nature and thus fully separated from God and of his or her father the devil and a slave to unrighteousness, which is the nature that Adam and Eve acquired in Genesis 3 (because of his sin of disobedience) and all have inherited ever since (because Adam is the federal head of the human race and Eve the mother of all who have come after... everyone)...

...or:

• in Christ ~ counted as righteous, as Abraham was, by God... having been born again of the Spirit imputed, credited with, the righteousness of Christ (even though he or she still, in this life, sins), and thus fully God's, of his or her father God and a slave to righteousness... and in this case, truly Abraham's offspring according to the promise of God, and therefore true Jews of God, part of true Israel, the Israel of God.

I mean... we're getting into a lot of good stuff, here, One2question. I'm enjoying it; I hope you are as well.

Grace and peace to you, One2question.

 

[Ritajanice]

And greater still, those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons and daughters of God.

Not just the past teachings of Jesus the Christ when He was in human form but those who hear His voice throughout each day and follow Him.

Why seek Me amoung the dead. I have risen and been glorified. I sit in heaven and speak to you through my living Spirit Who is in you. Don't limit Me to the pages of a book.

The Born Again children do the will of the Father.


In Matthew 7:21–23, Jesus is recorded as saying: “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

To be anointed by God is to be filled with all the fullness of God so that you can faithfully do his work in this world. “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence” (2 Peter 1:3).

Ephesians 3:20 ►

Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, New Living Translation Now all glory to God, who is able, through his mighty power at work within us, to accomplish infinitely more than we might ask or think. English Standard Version Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, Berean Standard Bible Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us, Berean Literal Bible Now to the One being able to do exceedingly above all things that we ask or think, according to the power working in us,

 

[PinSeeker]

I am not going to consider myself, a Gentile, to be greater or even equal to the natural branches, Israelites. Nor will I put them down in any way. In fact I pray for them as they have a very special place in my heart.

Fantastic! This is what Paul exhorts us to specifically in Romans 11:18 ("do not be arrogant toward the branches... remember it is not you who support the Root, but the Root that supports you"), as you understand, I think. Remember what Paul writes to the Philippians, that none of us should think more highly of ourselves than anyone, and that we should, like Christ, consider all others ~ regardless of ethnicity ~ as more significant than ourselves... we each should look not only to our own interests, but also to the interests of others... for this was exactly ~ and perfectly ~ the mindset of Jesus, "Who, though He was in the form of God, did not count equality with God (the Father) a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men, (a)nd being found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross" (Philippians 2:3-8).

Isn't it fantastic that we as Gentile believers have been grafted into Christ the King of the Jews. What a display of God's grace.

Absolutely!!! :) We should identify intensely with the Israelites of old, because we are them, and they us. As the writer of Hebrews says:

• "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, Whom He appointed the Heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world" (Hebrews 1:1-2).

And as Peter says to us Gentiles, in exactly the same language as Moses says to the Israelites of old in Deuteronomy 7:

• "you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for His Own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy." (1 Peter 2:9-10).

It is not a "replacement," you understand, but an inclusion, so therefore all of God's people from all time, both Jew and Gentile, between which, as Paul says over and over again in all his letters, there is no distinction; we are all one in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I would suggest thinking along the lines of what Jesus said to His first disciples who served with Christ in the flesh (3 years or so) and with His Spirit after that. Who and where did they serve? The Jews in Israel. Who and where will WILL they serve in Jesus's millennial kingdom?

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Mat 19:27&28

Who and where are you serving now in this life? Don't be surprised if you are rewarded by serving them there in Jesus's coming kingdom as their king and priest. (Rev 5:9&10)

So you are probably right when you said, I would not be living in the land of Canaan, which is not mine.
But technically your next comment I would say may not be correct, 'and never will be'. The New Jerusalem according to what John was shown came down in Israel. So we will live in that massive city in Israel. But sure we will probably come and go from there as we continue to serve those we have been serving in this life and in Jesus's 1000 year kingdom.

But Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and his 12 sons and all their offering in all generations was never promised the new jerusalem. I am just going off what they were promised.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Great point. I'm with you. I am not going to consider myself, a Gentile, to be greater or even equal to the natural branches, Israelites. Nor will I put them down in any way. In fact I pray for them as they have a very special place in my heart.

For whose names are above the 12 gates leading into the city Jesus has gone to prepare for us? Whose names are on the 12 foundations of this city?They are all Isrealites!

Isn't it fantastic that we as Gentile believers have been grafted into Christ the King of the Jews. What a display of God's grace.

Amen to this!!

Paul made it clear. they are hated because of the gospel. but beloved because of the election.. They have a special election. one of which God will fulfill in them..

That day will be a great day, Not only for those of the children of Jacob, but all gentiles (non jews) also.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well, what is the "end?" In Romans 9 through 11, what is God's end? It is God's saving all of His elect, which includes Jews and Gentiles...

No
Once again, Gentiles are not part of Israel in chapter 11. we are seperate

bringing His Israel to completion.

Israel has always been complete. it has 12 tribes, and consists of all who are in it, saved or unsaved (blinded or not blinded)

And I would say that God, by the work of His Spirit in a person's heart ~ "provoking" someone to a godly jealousy (*) is one way in which He might do that. Paul is speaking from a personal standpoint there, saying that we aches for something to happen that they might come to Jesus in faith. And he knows that it is the Spirit Who causes that to happen; the Holy Spirit, according to the will of God, gives us this new birth, thereby converting us to Christ, and thus making us part of God's Israel

He was aching for his brethren in the flesh. that they would come to Christ, knowing at this time, so many had and still to this day reject their messiah.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

All the ones that are elect of God. As Paul says, "not all who are descended..." (physically) "...from Israel belong to Israel, ..." (the Israel of God) "...and not all are children of Abraham because they are his..." (physical) "... offspring..." I would disagree that Paul prophesied that all the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and his son Jacob will be saved, and in fact quite the opposite... not all.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.


This is physical Israel. No gentile is included

For my sake 9the gentile believer or really the church) they are my enemy, concerning the gospel.

But concerning the election (God elected them for a purpose) they are beloved because of the fathers.