Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[Ronald David Bruno]

Uh, no. In recent years, there has been a large body of research, primarily by the psychological and sociological disciplines but also by hard sciences like neuroscience, to identify the profile of those who are prone to be attracted to wild conspiracy theories and imaginary "secret societies." Such thinking isn't necessarily pathological, but it may be...

​

Whatever secret societies, groups of political and financial leaders ( elites) who met, simply were sworn to secrecy not to divulge information discussed. They did what they thought was best for the world and their own pockets.
The Bavarian Illuminati were a group, who thought they were enlightened by reason and knowledge, set out to replace Christianity.
The Bilderberg meetings consisted of 120-150 world leaders and ultra rich like the Rothschilds and Rockefeller. They conspired secretly.
The Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commision, Freemasonry all did things behind closed doors - good and evil.
Today we have Klaus Schwab leading this larger group (just about all nations in agreement) meeting in Davos annually. Do you think George Soros, Bill Gates or Zuckerberg are good people, out to do good will for mankind? Their agenda is no secret now, yet is led by Satan to form a NWO, initiated by this Great Reset, clothed and disguised by the Climate Accord, saving the world, eliminating poverty, creating world peace ... a Utopia. Control is on the top of their list. OBAMA in 2008 for his DNC constructed a duplicate of Satan's throne (Pergamom Altar). What this a coincidence? No.
Control of a drastically depopulated world which they have factored onto their design harmful, destructive eltransgender ism, feminism, abortions, infanticide, gay marriage, transgenderism, harmful vaccinations leading to death and sterilization, contraception and now an abortion pill, fentinil and wars that will certainly added to the deportation - one big one coming to the Middle East.
There is nothing neurologically, pathologically or psychologically wrong with those who recognize groups of evil people (who may appear to have good intentions for the world).
Christians are given gifts to recognize/ discern evil spirits. There is nothing wrong with us.

 

[Ritajanice]

Oh so you are with him and you saw the spirit enter him. Ok I did not know that

Unfortunately you don’t seem to understand what speaking in the spirit means.

That answer of yours was the natural man...not the spiritual man.imo..

You like him because he agrees with you. And I called you both out. As usual you deflect

No deflection from him or me..it was you who deflected not us.

So back on you

No...back in you...if you don’t want to engage don’t mention or quote me.

 

[Ritajanice]

In other words you disagree with paul

I disagree with you thinking/ believing that the penned word can make your spirit Born Again...it can’t...that can only come by divine revelation

I am done I have tried to explain it to you if you will not see what I have shared then deny I even shared it. Then that’s on you

I don’t agree with you on how we become Born Again and never will.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Unfortunately you don’t seem to understand what speaking in the spirit means.

Actually I do.

And when you speak in the spirit you would never say something that is not in the word. So I know he was not in the spirit.

That answer of yours was the natural man...not the spiritual man.imo..

You still have not answered correctly

No deflection from him or me..it was you who deflected not us.

No. I answer every one of your questions. then get told I do not.

Thats on you

No...back in you...if you don’t want to engage don’t mention or quote me.

I will quote you when I want to. Its a free chat room. If you do not like what I say, well then maybe change what you are doing. It would go so much simpler. You know. Like back when you were praising me for everything I said because I stood up for you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I disagree with you thinking/ believing that the penned word can make your spirit Born Again...

I never said it could. so once again you totally go off the deep end because like your buddy you have a serious comprehenstion problem.

it does ntomatter

Paul spoke those words, Not me, so your argument is with Paul. not me..

it can’t...that can only come by divine revelation

whatever

I don’t agree with you on how we become Born Again and never will.

I know you do9n,t I do not agree with you. And you have yet to show me any different.

I don;t pluck passages out of context to make my belief appear true.

You want to do that, thats on you. Don't come complaining to me because people can not believe you

 

[Ritajanice]

Actually I do.

And when you speak in the spirit you would never say something that is not in the word. So I know he was not in the spirit.

Which you’ve yet to prove.

You still have not answered correctly

I have answered all your questions on becoming Born Again which are 100 % in disagreement with your belief.

No. I answer every one of your questions. then get told I do not.

I asked you what does being Born Of Imperishable seed mean?

Thats on you

I will quote you when I want to. Its a free chat room. If you do not like what I say, well then maybe change what you are doing. It would go so much simpler. You know. Like back when you were praising me for everything I said because I stood up for you?

Then stop telling me that what I post to you must stop.

No, it won’t..I post Gods truth and will continue to do so.

 

[Ritajanice]

I never said it could. so once again you totally go off the deep end because like your buddy you have a serious comprehenstion problem.

You said that looking to the cross and believing makes your spirit Born Again..not biblical.

it does ntomatter

Paul spoke those words, Not me, so your argument is with Paul. not me..

whatever

As I said.. reading Paul’s message does not make your spirit Born Again.

I know you do9n,t I do not agree with you. And you have yet to show me any different.

I don;t pluck passages out of context to make my belief appear true.

You want to do that, thats on you. Don't come complaining to me because people can not believe you

You pluck everything out of context.

Show me where I pluck everything out of context?

You said the cross saves..it doesn’t The Spirit saves us ..makes our spirit Born Again then saved from eternal damnation.

You need divine revelation to become Born Of The Spirit.

You have yet to understand that spiritual ( Living) revelation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which you’ve yet to prove.

I have answered all your questions on becoming Born Again which are 100 % in disagreement with your belief.

I asked you what does being Born Of Imperishable seed mean?

Then stop telling me that what I post to you must stop.

No, it won’t..I post Gods truth and will continue to do so.

Yawn

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You said that looking to the cross and believing makes your spirit Born Again..not biblical.

Actually Jesus said that in John 3. so just like your argument against what Paul said, your argument is with Jesus not me

As I said.. reading Paul’s message does not make your spirit Born Again.

I never said it did.

I just said your argument against something I posted was not against me, it was against Paul. Because I just repeated the words of Paul.

You pluck everything out of context.

Show me one time I have done this

Show me where I pluck everything out of context?

Start with John 3, Then Go to Eph 1 and eph 2.

to name a few

You said the cross saves..it doesn’t The Spirit saves us ..makes our spirit Born Again then saved from eternal damnation.

Sorry, But Jesus death on the cross saves. Why you deny the cross so much is beyond me..

You need divine revelation to become Born Of The Spirit.

I need to repent to become born again.. Anyone can repent.

You have yet to understand that spiritual ( Living) revelation.

You have yet to show me you understand.

So I have no reason to change my view..

 

[PinSeeker]

I will worship my loving God.

Well sure. :) We all do. :)

Who gives grace to all...

Yes, there is grace that is common to all, and in that sense, common grace. But the grace of His mercy, His compassion, His salvation He only gives to some. Yes, as Paul says in Romans 11:5, "at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace." Those who are chosen in this way by God are given a particular grace, particular to them, the grace of salvation.

...opportunity to all.

Well, sure, As Paul says in Romans 1:19-20, "what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made."

So yes, all have the same opportunity. But some, as Paul says, "suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Some "(become) futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they (become) fools, and exchange the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God (gives) them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator... For this reason God (gives) them up to dishonorable passions..."

It’s called love

Ah, well I most wholeheartedly agree, but regarding Christians, whom John is addressing in his three epistles, he says, "We love because God first loved us" (1 John 4:19).

Really, those who believe what Jacobus Arminius proposed centuries ago ~ and, as I said, Pelagius did centuries before Arminius ~ inadvertently make God's love out, as Pelagius and Arminius did, to be too small... not nearly as loving as He is. As Isaiah (55:8-9) says:

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."​

God loves us even though we are dead in our sin and cannot... will not... love Him... He calls us to Himself even though our full inclination is against Him. This is how great, how magnificent, His love is. Though we do not deserve it ~ and even fully deserve the opposite ~ He loves us anyway. And, again, as John says, "We love because God first loved us" (1 John 4:19).

Grace and peace to you, Eternally Grateful.

 

[Ritajanice]

Actually Jesus said that in John 3. so just like your argument against what Paul said, your argument is with Jesus not me

I never said it did.

We are Born Again by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit...not by reading the word.

I just said your argument against something I posted was not against me, it was against Paul. Because I just repeated the words of Paul.

Evasion once again...Paul’s writings doesn’t make our spirit Born Again...that’s by divine revelation.we are Born Again by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit....not by reading Paul’s words.

Show me one time I have done this

Start with John 3, Then Go to Eph 1 and eph 2.

to name a few

Sorry, But Jesus death on the cross saves. Why you deny the cross so much is beyond me..

I need to repent to become born again.. Anyone can repent.

The cross does not make our spirit Born Again..not biblical.

God brings us to repentance...you wouldn’t know how to bring your self to repentance/ Godly sorrow.

You have yet to show me you understand.

So I have no reason to change my view..

I’m not interested in showing you anything.. only God can do that.

 

[GodsGrace]

I’m here to post Gods truth...you take what I say as put downs, you best take that up with God.....
All in your opinion my dear.

Have you only got selective reading?

You must have missed the other put downs addressed to me by a certain member?

Oh I forgot...you are both of the same belief...ah, maybe that’s why you missed his put downs not only to me another member as well...you gave him a thumbs up for his put downs to another member as well....oh the hypocrisy of it all!.

Born Again of imperishable seed...meaning?

Is that small?


Your freewill does not make your spirit Born Again I’m afraid.

Not biblical.

God makes the rules not me!
Just prove my point wrong using scripture please..?

We are Born Of The Spirit..not Born Of the written word.

Studying theology doesn’t make one’s spirit Born Again I’m afraid......although your spirit could become Born Again while reading theology, if it’s Gods will to do so.....he wills it...not us.

I'm not in the habit of using Christian forums for casual conversation.

You stated, if I'm not mistaken, that God chooses who will be saved.
Another member stated that our free will takes away God's Sovereigntyl

Both are reformed statements.
The Reformed theology did not happen until 1,500 AD.

A new idea in Christianity....
AND an incorrect idea.

So, I'm waiting for a verse that supports what you state.

The rest of your ramblings are unimportant to me.

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm not in the habit of using Christian forums for casual conversation.

You stated, if I'm not mistaken, that God chooses who will be saved.

Show me where I said that?

Who makes our spirit Born Again you or God?

Let’s start with that one question for now.

Another member stated that our free will takes away God's Sovereigntyl

Both are reformed statements.
The Reformed theology did not happen until 1,500 AD.

A new idea in Christianity....
AND an incorrect idea.

So, I'm waiting for a verse that supports what you state.

I’ve already posted you scripture..we are Born Again of imperishable seed.

Did you do that or did God do that divine Living act?

The rest of your ramblings are unimportant to me.

Theology and 1,500 AD...has got nothing to do with being Born Of The Spirit...zilch/ nada.

Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever....where does that seed liveth and abideth forever @GodsGrace ?

Who brought your spirit from death to life?

You?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are. That's your whole point. He gave us grace because we believed/trusted. That's absolutely backwards.

No, I said what Paul said, that we have been saved by grace through faith.
Did Paul get it backwards?

Absolutely not. See above.

Yet this is exactly what Paul said.

eph 1:
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

eph 2:
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the [a]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Its there in black and white. How can you say it is not?

Yes, me, too, but don't stop there, Eternally Grateful. Yes, "...by grace (we) have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." The "through faith" part is included with the "saved" part in the "this," which is "not of (our) own doing."

Our faith is a gift of the Spirit, as Paul states in Romans 12:3 ~ "think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned..." ~ and Paul also states in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 ~ "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God Who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit... to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as He Wills."

sorry, I can not re-arrange the words of Paul

He said it is by Grace (the means) through faith- the time it happened)

Yes faith is a gift. If jesus did not do all he did, and the work of the HS we would have nothing to trust.. That is how it is a gift. But in eph 2, The gift is salvation, Given BY GRACE and THROUGH FAITH

Right; think about what you say here. :)

I am not tryign to remove Faith

Right, and this is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

It is the work of God we believe, But it is still a trust in all that God said and did, including his promises..

Its not a work to trust in someone else to do all the work for you.

I know you don't mean to do this, and in fact are probably kind of repulsed at the thought, but in effect, you ~ like Jacobus Arminius ~ are making this faith out to be a work,

No. YOU are trying to force my trust in God to be a work. Not me, not anyone else concerning me

My faith is in God.. When a person is drowning and a rescuer is sent (I was in the US Coast guard I have witnessed this many times) the person who is rescued trusted in the rescue swimmer to save them, he put his complete faith in the swimmer, The person rescued did not earn his salvation by trusting the rescue swimmer, nor did he earn his rescue. this thinking does not make any sense whatsoever. I can only fathom you think this because your following a doctrinal view (in this case fatalistic thinking, which is against arminian thinking) which is why you are trying to make me out to be an arminian of follow arminian thinking because this calvin vs arminian debate has went on for centuries. and one of the main characteristics is they do Not listen to what the other person, they hear a few words, and automatically assume, yes he is calvinists, or yes he is arminian..

when 90% of the time neither is true (I have been called both. now figure that one out!!)

which, if it were such would give us ground to boast ~ and even ground for some measure of self-praise for our salvation. Again, perish the thought; I know you don't mean to do this, but this is effectually what you are doing,

How can I boast if I placed my faith in God to save me.

Have you thought this through? Read my last paragraph, the person who was drowning could not boast they saved themselves because they had faith in the one sent to rescue them, they boast in the one who rescued them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

.

Well, I would say it's all a part of the process of being saved; in being born again, we are given faith...

No, We are born again AFTER we repent and come to faith.

but I'll accept what you say here and say that before being born again, we were dead in our sin. Now, literally speaking, dead people can't do anything. By the same token, we cannot have had faith while being dead in our sin, before being born again.

Dead people can;t do anything your right

we are talking about spiritually dead person not physically dead people. John the Baptist called out for spiritually dead jews to repent. He would not do that if they were unable to repent.

Um, well... "God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God" (Paul, Romans 5:8-9).

Amen, I agree

Agreed, absolutely. But He can, in His mercy, impute the righteousness of His Son to those to whom He wills.

And it is the will of the father that whoever see4s and believes, he will do this.

Abraham believed and THEN it was imputed as righteousness. In the same way all who have that same faith are imputed also (romans 4)

Which is exactly what Moses (who quotes God Himself) and Paul (who quotes Moses quoting God) say: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” And Paul goes on, saying, "Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory ~ even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?"

Study the OT where God said these words.

Nothing paul said in romans 9 had a thing to do with salvation, it is about the nation of Israel.

It's very interesting that you say this about His justice. Two things I would say: 1) that He would be perfectly just in not imputing the righteousness of Christ to any of us, and thus none of us would be saved or inherit eternal life in Christ, and 2) Christ, as you will agree, satisfies God's justice on behalf of those whom God purposes to save, those whom per His will He has mercy and compassion on. Yes, God does not go against or compromise His justice in any way, and not to any degree. Agreed. Absolutely.

Thats not justice.

Justice is offered to all. or there is no justice..

Yes, because his eyes had been opened, his deaf ears unstopped ~ the eyes and ears of his heart... he had been brought from death in sin to life in Christ. He had been born again and was thus able to see his need for God's mercy. The prophet Joel gives us a clear picture of the order of things in Joel 2:32...

"it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls."​

Read that passage closely, and you will see that the ones who call upon the name of the LORD and are thus saved are the ones whom the LORD calls. We call upon Him because He has called us.

Peter says, in 1 Peter 2:9-10, that we are "called..." by God, of course, "...out of darkness into His marvelous light. Once (we) were not a people, but now (we) are God’s people; once (we) had not received mercy, but now (we) have received mercy." And remember how Peter puts it in 1 Peter 1:3-5...

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."​

Never does anything in God's Word say "we are called because we believe," but rather we believe because we have received the mercy of God and have been called by Him and thus drawn to Him. This is what Jesus says:

"No one can come to Me unless the Father Who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44).​

Jesus even says to his disciples ~ and to you and me, by extension:

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He may give it to you" (John 15:16).​

We first come to believe in the very same context as those in Acts 13:48, "when the Gentiles heard (what Paul and Barnabus were saying), they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."


No, it is the natural result of our having been born again of the Spirit, of God by His Spirit having given us faith, which, like all of the Spirit's gifts, is apportioned to us as He wills, to be used for the common good.


Absolutely correct; I hope no one is intimating such. When we are born again, it is of the Spirit, and we are no longer dead in our sin. But, sadly, in this life, we still sin. One great day that will no longer be the case. God has promised it, and all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you.

You can;t be born again while still under the penalty of sin.

Justification precedes regeneration. In fact regeneration is a direct result of being justified.

and the bible makes it clear. we are justified through faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well sure. :) We all do. :)


Yes, there is grace that is common to all, and in that sense, common grace. But the grace of His mercy, His compassion, His salvation He only gives to some. Yes, as Paul says in Romans 11:5, "at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace." Those who are chosen in this way by God are given a particular grace, particular to them, the grace of salvation.

This is in error.

Grace is offered to all. Otherwise God is the direct opposite of the loving God he claims to be. Sorry, but this is how I see it

Well, sure, As Paul says in Romans 1:19-20, "what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made."

So yes, all have the same opportunity. But some, as Paul says, "suppress the truth in unrighteousness." Some "(become) futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they (become) fools, and exchange the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God (gives) them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator... For this reason God (gives) them up to dishonorable passions..."

Its says they hid the truth. But finish it, it said although they know the righteous judgment of God., they did it anyway, the most important words are. "they have no excuse" They can not stand on judgment day and say God did not show it to them, and have an excuse (like the would in fatalistic thinking) They have no argument, Because they know. they willfully disobeyed in unbelief..

Ah, well I most wholeheartedly agree, but regarding Christians, whom John is addressing in his three epistles, he says, "We love because God first loved us" (1 John 4:19).

Yes, thats why we love.

And even more importantly. God said to love our enemy, He can't tell us to love our enemy when he hates his enemy and will not even give them an opportunity to be saved.. Why would he demand we do what he himself will not do

Really, those who believe what Jacobus Arminius proposed centuries ago ~ and, as I said, Pelagius did centuries before Arminius ~ inadvertently make God's love out, as Pelagius and Arminius did, to be too small... not nearly as loving as He is. As Isaiah (55:8-9) says:

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts."​

lol. Well that is what Calvin did. His love us small. Arminius from what I understand, Made it for everyone. which means to Arminius, his love was large. so I am not sure what your getting at here

God loves us even though we are dead in our sin and cannot... will not... love Him... He calls us to Himself even though our full inclination is against Him. This is how great, how magnificent, His love is. Though we do not deserve it ~ and even fully deserve the opposite ~ He loves us anyway. And, again, as John says, "We love because God first loved us" (1 John 4:19).

Grace and peace to you, Eternally Grateful.

He loved the whole world. so much he died for them, so that whoever in that world believes, they will never perish and they will live forever (having been born again)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are Born Again by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit...not by reading the word.

I never said otherwise.

You know I am sick and tired of correcting you when you make these false claims against me, You should be sick and tired of being corrected. when will you repent and stop it?

Evasion once again...Paul’s writings doesn’t make our spirit Born Again...that’s by divine revelation.we are Born Again by Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit....not by reading Paul’s words.

The cross does not make our spirit Born Again..not biblical.

God brings us to repentance...you wouldn’t know how to bring your self to repentance/ Godly sorrow.

I’m not interested in showing you anything.. only God can do that.

Whatever,

Good day, continue in unbelief, continue to reject the cross. and continue to claim gods word is meaningless.

thats on you..

 

[Ritajanice]

I never said otherwise.

You know I am sick and tired of correcting you when you make these false claims against me, You should be sick and tired of being corrected. when will you repent and stop it?

A Born Again does not repent..they did it already just before they became Born Of The Spirit.

Whatever,

Good day, continue in unbelief, continue to reject the cross. and continue to claim gods word is meaningless.

thats on you..

I have faith that can move mountains.God given faith that has grown.

It’s because of the cross I was Born Again by the Spirit Of God and saved from eternal damnation.

 

[PinSeeker]

Nothing paul said in romans 9 had a thing to do with salvation, it is about the nation of Israel.

His whole context in Romans 9-11 is God's elect, God's purpose of election of some to His ~ His, not our ~ Israel, the Israel of God, which, if you remember from Romans 2:28-29, he said, "...no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." And, in Romans 9:6, Paul says, "not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring..." So, God's Israel is not the Israel we know, which consists of only ethnic Jews. The Israel of God consists of His elect, which includes people of all ethnicities. as Paul goes on to say in Romans 11:25-26, "...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved..."

Eternally Grateful, you are a great brother in Christ, and in no way a "lesser Christian" than I, and I have the greatest of respect for you, but in this you are wrong. You, like Arminius, are inadvertently taking Paul out of context.

Grace and peace to you.

Justice is offered to all.

Absolutely. And given to all. God's justice is holy and perfect, as are all His attributes.

You can;t be born again while still under the penalty of sin.

Right; you have to be predestined, called, and justified, first ~ justified despite the sin in us; "the free gift following many trespasses brought justification" (Romans 5:16) ~ which is the case... we are justified by God, and the very reason is that we are place in Christ; His righteousness is imputed to us by God through the work of His Spirit. And as Paul says in Romans 8:30, "those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified." You and I are not glorified yet, but it is absolutely certain that we will be.

Justification precedes regeneration. In fact regeneration is a direct result of being justified.

I would say it's part of the same event. But okay, immediately thereafter. :) That does nothing to disprove my point either way.

and the bible makes it clear. we are justified through faith.

Right, which is the gift of God, so that no one may boast (Ephesians 2:8), and empowered by one and the same Spirit, Who apportions to each one individually as He wills (1 Corinthians 12:11). Not that it is the intention of anyone here, but we cannot skirt around this.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A Born Again does not repent..they did it already just before they became Born Of The Spirit.

I have faith that can move mountains.God given faith that has grown.

It’s because of the cross I was Born Again by the Spirit Of God and saved from eternal damnation.

Good day maam.

I will pray for you