Why Antiochus Epiphanes IV Is Not The Little Horn - Part 2: "exceeding great"

[Phoneman777]

Antiochus Epiphanes IV is incorrectly identified as the Little Horn of Daniel 8 by those who simply don't understand eschatology must align with historic evidence. There are several irrefutable facts of history which disqualify him as the Little Horn of Daniel 8.

One such reason is that Antiochus Epiphanes IV was anything but "exceeding great" beyond the "very great" Greeks or the "great" Medo-Persians. The only thing this man was "exceeding great" at was championing mediocrity.

• Spent his youth as a Roman hostage, surrendered by his defeated father as a condition of peace.
• Although he had initial success, his later conquests stalled and he died leaving them incomplete.
• "Epiphanes" means "Illustrious" but his contemporaries changed it to "Epimanes" - "the madman".
• He and his entire army were chased out of Egypt by a Roman ambassador and his small security force at a time when Rome had not yet even grown into the superpower that it would eventually become. When the ambassador arrived in Egypt, he told Antiochus that he wanted him to leave and then took his staff and drew a circle in the sand around Antiochus and demanded an answer before he stepped out of the circle. Antiochus left with his tail between his legs.

Some argue his temporary suspension of Jewish sacrifices and the sacrifice of a pig on the Jewish altar qualifies him as "exceeding great" as in "exceedingly blasphemous in the sight of God" but when you consider the human slaughter of Jews in the temple by Babylonian soldiers and the exact same kind of slaughter by the hands of Roman soldiers, one pig on the altar pales in comparison. Also, the timing of the suspension doesn't line up with the 2,300 Days, whether we count them as "2300" or "1100 evenings/mornings", nor does the word "sacrifice" appear in the original, meaning that the entire "daily" or "entirety of the ritual year" which includes everything else besides just the animal sacrifices.

There is simply no getting around irrefutable facts and if we're going to be Holy Spirit led students of Bible prophecy at all, we must follow where Providence - not our bigoted ideas - leads us.

 

[Douggg]

Also, while Antiochus IV did commit an act called the abomination of desolation, that prefigures what the end times abomination of desolation will be, Antiochus IV did not commit the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13 which the little horn person will do.

 

[tailgator]

Antiochus Epiphanes IV is incorrectly identified as the Little Horn of Daniel 8 by those who simply don't understand eschatology must align with historic evidence. There are several irrefutable facts of history which disqualify him as the Little Horn of Daniel 8.

One such reason is that Antiochus Epiphanes IV was anything but "exceeding great" beyond the "very great" Greeks or the "great" Medo-Persians. The only thing this man was "exceeding great" at was championing mediocrity.

• Spent his youth as a Roman hostage, surrendered by his defeated father as a condition of peace.
• Although he had initial success, his later conquests stalled and he died leaving them incomplete.
• "Epiphanes" means "Illustrious" but his contemporaries changed it to "Epimanes" - "the madman".
• He and his entire army were chased out of Egypt by a Roman ambassador and his small security force at a time when Rome had not yet even grown into the superpower that it would eventually become. When the ambassador arrived in Egypt, he told Antiochus that he wanted him to leave and then took his staff and drew a circle in the sand around Antiochus and demanded an answer before he stepped out of the circle. Antiochus left with his tail between his legs.

Some argue his temporary suspension of Jewish sacrifices and the sacrifice of a pig on the Jewish altar qualifies him as "exceeding great" as in "exceedingly blasphemous in the sight of God" but when you consider the human slaughter of Jews in the temple by Babylonian soldiers and the exact same kind of slaughter by the hands of Roman soldiers, one pig on the altar pales in comparison. Also, the timing of the suspension doesn't line up with the 2,300 Days, whether we count them as "2300" or "1100 evenings/mornings", nor does the word "sacrifice" appear in the original, meaning that the entire "daily" or "entirety of the ritual year" which includes everything else besides just the animal sacrifices.

There is simply no getting around irrefutable facts and if we're going to be Holy Spirit led students of Bible prophecy at all, we must follow where Providence - not our bigoted ideas - leads us.

The armed forces given to Israel would be like a blessing to Israel at this point.Their children not forced to sacrifice themselves for their king would be a blessing and would help Netanyahu stay in power.If he doesn't do something soon about the draft,his coalition will soon fall apart.They are threatening now.

Maybe the king of the north will give his ally a helping hand .The king which moved the tabernacle of his palace to Jerusalem.

 

[tailgator]

Also, while Antiochus IV did commit an act called the abomination of desolation, that prefigures what the end times abomination of desolation will be, Antiochus IV did not commit the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13 which the little horn person will do.

The abomination of desolation placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces on the day of the Lord is no pig.

It's a nuke.

When the people in the outlying areas of judea see it,they will flee in haste.They will see it from.their fields and from their rooftops.

They are not fleeing from.a pig.


Luke 23:30
Then “’they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!"’

 

[TribulationSigns]

Also, while Antiochus IV did commit an act called the abomination of desolation, that prefigures what the end times abomination of desolation will be, Antiochus IV did not commit the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13 which the little horn person will do.

No such thing as a "little horn person." That is your speculation and unbiblical interpreation. Period. And I won't deal with phony Antiochus Epiphanes IV nonsense.

 

[Douggg]

The abomination of desolation placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces on the day of the Lord is no pig.

It's a nuke.

When the people in the outlying areas of judea see it,they will flee in haste.They will see it from.their fields and from their rooftops.

They are not fleeing from.a pig.


Luke 23:30
Then “’they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!"’

Antiochus place a statue image of Zeus in the temple. The statue image prefigured what the end times abomination of desolation will be.

Antiochus also did sacrifice a pig on the altar, but hat was not the abomination of desolation.

 

[tailgator]

Antiochus place a statue image of Zeus in the temple. The statue image prefigured what the end times abomination of desolation will be.

Antiochus also did sacrifice a pig on the altar, but hat was not the abomination of desolation.

Sorry
The United States armed forces don't play around with statues.

When the United states armed forces are ordered to annihilate everything in the middle east and Egypt,they are not going to set up statues.

Daniel 11:44
44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.


At this time there will be great tribulation ,the likes of which has never been seen.


Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

[Douggg]

Sorry
The United States armed forces don't play around with statues.

When the United states armed forces are ordered to annihilate everything in the middle east and Egypt,they are not going to set up statues.

Daniel 11:44
44 But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.


At this time there will be great tribulation ,the likes of which has never been seen.


Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

Why are you quoting Daniel 11:44 ?

What does the U.S. military have to do with the abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-12 ?

 

[tailgator]

Why are you quoting Daniel 11:44 ?

What does the U.S. military have to do with the abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-12 ?

Daniel 11:44 is when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem.The abomination is what causes the great tribulation at that time.The great tribulation Jesus spoke of in Mathew 24.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.


Mathew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[tailgator]

Most of Daniel 11 is about the US military in the middle east.Its not about Antiochus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Antiochus Epiphanes IV is incorrectly identified as the Little Horn of Daniel 8 by those who simply don't understand eschatology must align with historic evidence. There are several irrefutable facts of history which disqualify him as the Little Horn of Daniel 8.

One such reason is that Antiochus Epiphanes IV was anything but "exceeding great" beyond the "very great" Greeks or the "great" Medo-Persians. The only thing this man was "exceeding great" at was championing mediocrity.

• Spent his youth as a Roman hostage, surrendered by his defeated father as a condition of peace.
• Although he had initial success, his later conquests stalled and he died leaving them incomplete.
• "Epiphanes" means "Illustrious" but his contemporaries changed it to "Epimanes" - "the madman".
• He and his entire army were chased out of Egypt by a Roman ambassador and his small security force at a time when Rome had not yet even grown into the superpower that it would eventually become. When the ambassador arrived in Egypt, he told Antiochus that he wanted him to leave and then took his staff and drew a circle in the sand around Antiochus and demanded an answer before he stepped out of the circle. Antiochus left with his tail between his legs.

Some argue his temporary suspension of Jewish sacrifices and the sacrifice of a pig on the Jewish altar qualifies him as "exceeding great" as in "exceedingly blasphemous in the sight of God" but when you consider the human slaughter of Jews in the temple by Babylonian soldiers and the exact same kind of slaughter by the hands of Roman soldiers, one pig on the altar pales in comparison. Also, the timing of the suspension doesn't line up with the 2,300 Days, whether we count them as "2300" or "1100 evenings/mornings", nor does the word "sacrifice" appear in the original, meaning that the entire "daily" or "entirety of the ritual year" which includes everything else besides just the animal sacrifices.

There is simply no getting around irrefutable facts and if we're going to be Holy Spirit led students of Bible prophecy at all, we must follow where Providence - not our bigoted ideas - leads us.

Antiochus was a prototype of the Antichrist to come. Just like Nero and Hitler

 

[Phoneman777]

The armed forces given to Israel would be like a blessing to Israel at this point.Their children not forced to sacrifice themselves for their king would be a blessing and would help Netanyahu stay in power.If he doesn't do something soon about the draft,his coalition will soon fall apart.They are threatening now.

Maybe the king of the north will give his ally a helping hand .The king which moved the tabernacle of his palace to Jerusalem.

We need to remember that the NT "Israel of God" is they who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature in Christ Jesus". Abraham's seed are those who "be Christ's" or "belong to Christ". They are Jews of inward circumcision, not outward ;)

 

[tailgator]

We need to remember that the NT "Israel of God" is they who "walk by this rule" of the "new creature in Christ Jesus". Abraham's seed are those who "be Christ's" or "belong to Christ". They are Jews of inward circumcision, not outward ;)

I understand,but there are also the children of Israel who break the covenant .

For instance.Scripture shows the children of Israel being cast out of the kingdom on the day of the Lord because they worship a king they have chosen for themselves and have made an image to worship as well.

Amos 5
“Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the wilderness, people of Israel?
26 You have lifted up the shrine of your king,
the pedestal of your idols,
the star of your god[b]—
which you made for yourselves.
27 Therefore I will send you into exile beyond Damascus,”
says the Lord, whose name is God Almighty.


I agree ,after they are cast out that the saints in Christ inherit the kingdom .But there is still this issue that needs to be taken care of in the land of Canaan.
The day of the Lord has not taken place yet and there's a beast in the land of Israel.

 

[Phoneman777]

Antiochus was a prototype of the Antichrist to come. Just like Nero and Hitler

No, he doesn't fit the description of the Little Horn.

Among the many reasons why he doesn't is this: the Little Horn is prophesied to grow "exceeding great" toward the South aka "Egypt". Truth is, he and his entire army got run out of Egypt by a Roman ambassador and his small security detail. Does that sound like "waxed exceeding great toward the South"?

 

[Phoneman777]

I understand,but there are also the children of Israel who break the covenant .

The only covenant God has today is with the "Israel of God" - the church.

Prophecy is conditional, as Jonah shows us. The promises - including those in Zechariah 14 - that were for ancient Israel now pertain to the "Israel of God" aka the church, as Romans 15:8 KJV and 2 Corinthians 1:20 KJV say.

 

[tailgator]

The only covenant God has today is with the "Israel of God" - the church.

Prophecy is conditional, as Jonah shows us. The promises - including those in Zechariah 14 - that were for ancient Israel now pertain to the "Israel of God" aka the church, as Romans 15:8 KJV and 2 Corinthians 1:20 KJV say.

So you believe God will break his word to the children of Israel.and he will not punish them for not keeping his statutes and judgements?You also believe he will not keep his good word to the Messianic Jews who keep his commandments?

I'm pretty sure Christ has not done away with the law.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, he doesn't fit the description of the Little Horn.

Among the many reasons why he doesn't is this: the Little Horn is prophesied to grow "exceeding great" toward the South aka "Egypt". Truth is, he and his entire army got run out of Egypt by a Roman ambassador and his small security detail. Does that sound like "waxed exceeding great toward the South"?

I agree with you.

But as the antichrist is a fierce anti semite and does horrific things against the Jews, He was a prototype or if you will an experiment of what teh Antichrist will be.

Teh New Age movement in the 80's when it was very popular claimed Hitler was the last prototype for the antichrist... they had declared that humans are not capable of handling the great power Satan will give to his son who will be the real antichrist.

 

[tailgator]

I agree with you.

But as the antichrist is a fierce anti semite and does horrific things against the Jews, He was a prototype or if you will an experiment of what teh Antichrist will be.

Teh New Age movement in the 80's when it was very popular claimed Hitler was the last prototype for the antichrist... they had declared that humans are not capable of handling the great power Satan will give to his son who will be the real antichrist.

Most Jews are antichrist.Or at least them who call themselves Jews.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Most Jews are antichrist.Or at least them who call themselves Jews.

Most of the world is antichrist!

But the Jews are still God's covenanted people and the fact that most of them are in unbelief has long been prophesied.

God is fulfilling prophesy now by bringing them back to their covenanted eternal homeland (in unbelief) to judge and purge them and prepare the remnant that survives the tribulation to receive Jesus as their national Messiah. This too is the subject of much OT and even some NT prophesy.

 

[tailgator]

Most of the world is antichrist!

But the Jews are still God's covenanted people and the fact that most of them are in unbelief has long been prophesied.

God is fulfilling prophesy now by bringing them back to their covenanted eternal homeland (in unbelief) to judge and purge them and prepare the remnant that survives the tribulation to receive Jesus as their national Messiah. This too is the subject of much OT and even some NT prophesy.

From what I've read,the christians in Israel are persecuted by the antichrist Jews in Israel.That is the tribulation the church suffers in Israel for 42 months.
Then God causes many nations to rise up against the apostate Israel which worships the beast and destroys them.
Then Christ comes and resurrects the christians who were killed in Israel who did not worship Israel or it's image nor recieve it's mark.They will reign with Christ and will be God's chosen people above all.nations.That is the covenant God made with the children of Israel.

The unbelievers in Israel are not God's chosen people.