Do you believe this is...

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

If Angels do not die and they are ministering Spirits beholding the Face of God and bearing His Name and Nature - what is the source of Enmity in a Rebel Angel?

FREE WILL

 

[face2face]

FREE WILL

I dont know how intellegent you are or how well read but the OP was super clear!

Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word! Psalm 103:20

F2F

 

[BlessedPeace]

THE FOLLOWING IS MISERABLY CHOPPED UP. I KEPT GETTING TOO MANY CHARACTER WARNING AND WHEN MY OWN CHARACTER COUNTER HAD E DOWN TO 788 CHARACTERS I JUST STARTS RO REMOVE THINGS AND POSTED TO GO THE THE (ONE) LINK ... FOR FULL ARTICLE....

Wiki says:
The Fallen Angel (1847) by Alexandre Cabanel (Musée Fabre, Montpellier). The most common meaning for Lucifer in English is as a name for the Devil in Christian theology.It appeared in the King James Version of the Bible in Isaiah

Got Questions says:
The Bible nowhere explicitly describes Satan as an angel before he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. Assuming Ezekiel 28:12–18 is symbolic of Satan’s fall, Satan is described as a “guardian cherub.” Cherubs are angelic creatures, possibly the highest order of angels. So, in that sense, yes, Satan was an angel.
Revelation 12:7, describing the end-times war in heaven, says, “Michael [the archangel] and his angels fought against the dragon [Satan] and his angels.” Whether or not Satan is technically an angel is beside the point. Satan is an angelic-type creature with a close connection to the angels.

History.com
The Devil is often identified as Lucifer, a fallen angel who rebelled against God in the Bible.

Brittanica:
Satan, in the three major Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), the prince of evil spirits and adversary of God.Satan is traditionally understood as an angel (or sometimes a jinnī in Islam) who rebelled against God rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven with other “fallen” angels before the creation of humankind. Ezekiel 28:14–18 and Isaiah 14:12–17 are the key Scripture passages that support this understanding, and, in the New Testament, in Luke 10:18 Jesus states that he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. In all three major Abrahamic religions, Satan is identified as the entity (a serpent in the Genesis account) that tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden and was thus the catalyst for the fall of humankind. (For further discussion of Satan in Islam, see Iblīs. For further discussion of Satan in Jewish folklore, see Samael.)

From Christianity . com The Story of Lucifer - How Did He Fall and Become Satan?

Bolding and font size and color changes are mine.

Satan was an angel who rebelled against God and became the Devil

How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan?​

Lucifer became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. This pride represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time.



https://facebook.com/sharer/sharer....d-lucifer-fall-and-become-satan-11557519.html
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet/?text=How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan?&url=https://www.christianity.com/wiki/angels-and-demons/how-did-lucifer-fall-and-become-satan-11557519.html

It would seem from the context of Ezekiel 28 that the first ten verses of this chapter are dealing with a human leader. Then, starting in verse 11 and on through verse 19, Lucifer is the focus of the discussion:

(Ezekiel 28:11-19) Go to the link to read this

The Fall of Lucifer in the Bible​

What is the rationale for the conclusion that these latter verses refer to the fall of Lucifer? Whereas the first ten verses in this chapter speak about the ruler of Tyre (who was condemned for claiming to be a god though he was just a man), the discussion moves to the king of Tyre starting in verse 11. Many scholars believe that though there was a human “ruler” of Tyre, the real “king” of Tyre was Satan, for it was he who was ultimately at work in this anti-God city and it was he who worked through the human ruler of the city.



Some have suggested that these verses may actually be dealing with a human king of Tyre who was empowered by Satan. Perhaps the historic king of Tyre was a tool of Satan, possibly even indwelt by him. In describing this king, Ezekiel also gives us glimpses of the superhuman creature, Satan, who was using, if not indwelling, him.
Now, there are things that are true of this “king” that—at least ultimately—can not be said to be true of human beings. For example, the king is portrayed as having a different nature from man (he is a cherub, verse 14); he had a different position from man (he was blameless and sinless, verse 15); he was in a different realm from man (the holy mount of God, verses 13,14); he received a different judgment from man (he was cast out of the mountain of God and thrown to the earth, verse 16); and the superlatives used to describe him don’t seem to fit that of a normal human being (“full of wisdom,” “perfect in beauty,” and having “the seal of perfection,” verse 12 NASB).

Who Is Lucifer and Why Did He Rebel?​

Our text tells us that this king was a created being and left the creative hand of God in a perfect state (Ezekiel 28:12-15). And he remained perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him (Ezekiel 28:15b). What was this iniquity? We read in Ezekiel 28:17, “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.” Lucifer apparently became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. The sin that corrupted Lucifer was self-generated pride.
Apparently, this represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time. Sin originated in the free will of Lucifer in which—with a full understanding of the issues involved—he chose to rebel against the Creator.



This mighty angelic being was rightfully judged by God: “I threw you to the earth” (Ezekiel 28:18).

Go to the link to read the rest of this section on 2nd view


There is a third view that I think is preferable to the two views above.

Go to the link to read this 3rd part

What Does the Name Lucifer Mean?​

Go to the link to read this part.

What Does Satan Mean and Tell Us about Lucifer's Rebellion?​

Go to link to rread this

I agree the lament in Ezekiel 28 does sound like God is both addressing the king of Tyre and then to Lucifer who indwelt him.
Because the mortal man that was the actual king could not have been in Eden in the beginning.

Great post. :)

 

[face2face]

I agree the lament in Ezekiel 28 does sound like God is both addressing the king of Tyre

Great post. :)

Well are half truth is better than no truth at all.

 

[Kabone]

THE FOLLOWING IS MISERABLY CHOPPED UP. I KEPT GETTING TOO MANY CHARACTER WARNING AND WHEN MY OWN CHARACTER COUNTER HAD ME DOWN TO 788 CHARACTERS I JUST STARTS TO REMOVE THINGS AND POSTED TO GO TO THE (ONE) LINK ... FOR FULL ARTICLE....

Wiki says:
The Fallen Angel (1847) by Alexandre Cabanel (Musée Fabre, Montpellier). The most common meaning for Lucifer in English is as a name for the Devil in Christian theology.It appeared in the King James Version of the Bible in Isaiah

Got Questions says:
The Bible nowhere explicitly describes Satan as an angel before he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven. Assuming Ezekiel 28:12–18 is symbolic of Satan’s fall, Satan is described as a “guardian cherub.” Cherubs are angelic creatures, possibly the highest order of angels. So, in that sense, yes, Satan was an angel.
Revelation 12:7, describing the end-times war in heaven, says, “Michael [the archangel] and his angels fought against the dragon [Satan] and his angels.” Whether or not Satan is technically an angel is beside the point. Satan is an angelic-type creature with a close connection to the angels.

History.com
The Devil is often identified as Lucifer, a fallen angel who rebelled against God in the Bible.

Brittanica:
Satan, in the three major Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), the prince of evil spirits and adversary of God.Satan is traditionally understood as an angel (or sometimes a jinnī in Islam) who rebelled against God rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven with other “fallen” angels before the creation of humankind. Ezekiel 28:14–18 and Isaiah 14:12–17 are the key Scripture passages that support this understanding, and, in the New Testament, in Luke 10:18 Jesus states that he saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. In all three major Abrahamic religions, Satan is identified as the entity (a serpent in the Genesis account) that tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden and was thus the catalyst for the fall of humankind. (For further discussion of Satan in Islam, see Iblīs. For further discussion of Satan in Jewish folklore, see Samael.)

From Christianity . com The Story of Lucifer - How Did He Fall and Become Satan?

Bolding and font size and color changes are mine.

Satan was an angel who rebelled against God and became the Devil

How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan?​

Lucifer became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. This pride represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time.



https://facebook.com/sharer/sharer....d-lucifer-fall-and-become-satan-11557519.html
https://twitter.com/intent/tweet/?text=How Did Lucifer Fall and Become Satan?&url=https://www.christianity.com/wiki/angels-and-demons/how-did-lucifer-fall-and-become-satan-11557519.html

It would seem from the context of Ezekiel 28 that the first ten verses of this chapter are dealing with a human leader. Then, starting in verse 11 and on through verse 19, Lucifer is the focus of the discussion:

(Ezekiel 28:11-19) Go to the link to read this

The Fall of Lucifer in the Bible​

What is the rationale for the conclusion that these latter verses refer to the fall of Lucifer? Whereas the first ten verses in this chapter speak about the ruler of Tyre (who was condemned for claiming to be a god though he was just a man), the discussion moves to the king of Tyre starting in verse 11. Many scholars believe that though there was a human “ruler” of Tyre, the real “king” of Tyre was Satan, for it was he who was ultimately at work in this anti-God city and it was he who worked through the human ruler of the city.



Some have suggested that these verses may actually be dealing with a human king of Tyre who was empowered by Satan. Perhaps the historic king of Tyre was a tool of Satan, possibly even indwelt by him. In describing this king, Ezekiel also gives us glimpses of the superhuman creature, Satan, who was using, if not indwelling, him.
Now, there are things that are true of this “king” that—at least ultimately—can not be said to be true of human beings. For example, the king is portrayed as having a different nature from man (he is a cherub, verse 14); he had a different position from man (he was blameless and sinless, verse 15); he was in a different realm from man (the holy mount of God, verses 13,14); he received a different judgment from man (he was cast out of the mountain of God and thrown to the earth, verse 16); and the superlatives used to describe him don’t seem to fit that of a normal human being (“full of wisdom,” “perfect in beauty,” and having “the seal of perfection,” verse 12 NASB).

Who Is Lucifer and Why Did He Rebel?​

Our text tells us that this king was a created being and left the creative hand of God in a perfect state (Ezekiel 28:12-15). And he remained perfect in his ways until iniquity was found in him (Ezekiel 28:15b). What was this iniquity? We read in Ezekiel 28:17, “Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.” Lucifer apparently became so impressed with his own beauty, intelligence, power, and position that he began to desire for himself the honor and glory that belonged to God alone. The sin that corrupted Lucifer was self-generated pride.
Apparently, this represents the actual beginning of sin in the universe—preceding the fall of the human Adam by an indeterminate time. Sin originated in the free will of Lucifer in which—with a full understanding of the issues involved—he chose to rebel against the Creator.



This mighty angelic being was rightfully judged by God: “I threw you to the earth” (Ezekiel 28:18).

Go to the link to read the rest of this section on 2nd view


There is a third view that I think is preferable to the two views above.

Go to the link to read this 3rd part

What Does the Name Lucifer Mean?​

Go to the link to read this part.

What Does Satan Mean and Tell Us about Lucifer's Rebellion?​

Go to link to rread this

I thought people anointed satan king of Babylon which is Jerusalem?
Who said satan has power? If so, that would mean god gave it to him. God casts out satan, curses him to crawl on his belly, but didn’t bother to strip him of his power?
We also are supposed to despise him, and stomp on his head while he bites our heel. But the way Paul talks the opposite might as well be true.
Sorry, but I was hoping to get clarity from this forum, but with all the different stances I’m getting more confused

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I thought people anointed satan king of Babylon which is Jerusalem?
Who said satan has power? If so, that would mean god gave it to him. God casts out satan, curses him to crawl on his belly, but didn’t bother to strip him of his power?
We also are supposed to despise him, and stomp on his head while he bites our heel. But the way Paul talks the opposite might as well be true.
Sorry, but I was hoping to get clarity from this forum, but with all the different stances I’m getting more confused

The sad truth is that on other forums as well as this one there are so many opinions and it behoves one to ask questions when something seems amiss.

If you feel strongly about anything then stick to your guns... but keep reading cause clarity will come.... Ummmm... or not.

As to what you have written here....
" God casts out satan, curses him to crawl on his belly, but didn’t bother to strip him of his power?

There are those who will tell you satan is no more... not after AD70. (If I can call on @3 Resurrections for an explanation????)

I am not a believer in this... but then I also see things in the Holy Word that others do not... no matter how much I try to explain.

I am becoming increasingly of the thought that when in 1 Cor 14:33 Paul says "for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints." Yet he does not say that anywhere else.

WHY?

Because I think God permits, if not fosters, confusion for the very same reason that the Tower of Babel was destroyed. To keep us in line.

But that is another discussion for another day in another thread.

Hang in there...we all are a pretty nice group.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I dont know how intellegent you are or how well read but the OP was super clear!

Bless the Lord, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, obeying the voice of his word! Psalm 103:20

There is some really flawed logic proposed in the original post. This Psalms 103:20 verse never claims that ALL angels remained obedient. It is only speaking a command to that particular group of angels who were preserved in faithfulness to God, directing these obedient, angelic mighty ones to bless the Lord. These obedient "ELECT angels" (1Tim. 5:21) are separate from those celestial beings who did NOT choose to "do His word, obeying the voice of His word" - the ones who "kept not their first estate" (Jude 6) and fell into iniquity by choice.

God also commands perfection of humankind. But not all humanity can obey this directive. "Be ye perfect as I am perfect" is not a command which any of humanity is capable of fulfilling unless God endows His elect with vicarious perfection IN CHRIST. Believers as children of God have this imputed perfection. All glory and blessing to God for this gift He has granted to His human elect ones. "Let all that hath breath praise the Lord."

 

[3 Resurrections]

There are those who will tell you satan is no more... not after AD70. (If I can call on @3 Resurrections for an explanation????)

There are those of us who quote the various scriptures telling of the time when Satan was going to be destroyed utterly so that he existed no more. I have given these various texts often before. Romans 16:20 had Paul encouraging the Roman believers that "The God of peace shall crush Satan under your feet SHORTLY." This was written around AD 60, and AD 70 was on the near horizon for Satan's utter destruction along with all his fallen angels and the unclean spirits.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I'd say anyone who claims Satan is not active in this world today might want to consider what they're proposing is active in all that is evil here.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I'd say anyone who claims Satan is not active in this world today might want to consider what they're proposing is active in all that is evil here.

God has given this world the opportunity since AD 70 to demonstrate their behavior towards Him without the presence of the Satanic realm anymore to influence them one way or another. The results are that mankind still chooses to disobey God, and shows all kinds of evil which comes out of their own hearts.

For those who think that evil occurring in this world can only be explained by having Satan and his devils still in existence - they have no concept of the depths of depravity which the heart of mankind can sink into - all by itself.

 

[BlessedPeace]

God has given this world the opportunity since AD 70 to demonstrate their behavior towards Him without the presence of the Satanic realm anymore to influence them one way or another. The results are that mankind still chooses to disobey God, and shows all kinds of evil which comes out of their own hearts.

For those who think that evil occurring in this world can only be explained by having Satan and his devils still in existence - they have no concept of the depths of depravity which the heart of mankind can sink into - all by itself.

Except there is no Biblical evidence,no credible Hermeneutics, that sustains the claim that Satan and his angels no longer exist here.

 

[Taken]

No, I do not believe there is such a thing as a fallen angel.

Jesus believed and even stated Satan fell from Heaven.

Divine nature cannot sin - impossible.

“Divine Nature”… ?

How do you define what “divine nature” means?


Isa. 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Luke 10:
[18] And he said Jesus speaking unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[3 Resurrections]

Except there is no Biblical evidence,no credible Hermeneutics, that sustains the claim that Satan and his angels no longer exist here.

There IS Biblical evidence for Satan and the entire demonic realm having been destroyed back in AD 70. As I used to do, you have probably read over these texts numerous times over the years without recognizing these scriptural proofs that the entire Satanic realm was destroyed long ago.

It is not "politically correct" to speak about this point of Satan's destruction, but I have lost my gullible dependence upon what comes out of the pulpit when it differs from what scripture in front of me states has already happened. Pastors are not inspired. Neither were the early church fathers who had trouble enough in their councils just deciding on the nature of the incarnate Christ. And the creeds make no statement one way or the other on this, so no one can accuse me of being "unorthodox" on this point of Satan and his devils and unclean spirits having been destroyed.

 

[BlessedPeace]

There IS Biblical evidence for Satan and the entire demonic realm having been destroyed back in AD 70. As I used to do, you have probably read over these texts numerous times over the years without recognizing this scriptural proof that the entire Satanic realm was destroyed long ago.

You have no evidence for your claim.

 

[3 Resurrections]

You have no evidence for your claim.

I do. There is scripture proof enough that Satan and his devils were destroyed - which tells us both where and when God accomplished this. But I doubt you would give this scripture proof any consideration. People are rather heavily invested in continuing to have a spiritual enemy to which they can pass the blame for humanity's misdeeds. Even when Christ and the scripture taught that this great enemy of ours would exist no more at a certain point in time.

 

[marks]

As I used to do, you have probably read over these texts

Which ones?

Much love!

 

[3 Resurrections]

Which ones?

Just for starters, consider the Romans 16:20 text which I gave above, written around AD 60. Paul gave an encouraging promise to the Roman believers that "...the God of peace shall crush Satan under your feet SHORTLY." Satan only had "a short time" to operate on earth in the first century after his AD 33 release when the millennium restrictions on him had ended. Knowing that he had only a "short time" left before his destruction, Satan ramped up his deception in full fury against the inhabitants of the earth and sea during the first century. John warned his readers about this in Revelation 12:12.

 

[marks]

Satan only had "a short time" to operate on earth in the first century after his AD 33 release when the millennium restrictions on him had ended.

I think we have some rather different ideas about the timing of things, so we are not going to arrive at agreement on this. Thank you for filling me in a little more about your thinking!

Much love!

 

[3 Resurrections]

I think we have some rather different ideas about the timing of things, so we are not going to arrive at agreement on this. Thank you for filling me in a little more about your thinking!

It took me a while to chew on all the various texts both OT and NT that speak about Satan's destruction and that of his devils and unclean spirits. I was skeptic also for quite some time. But I had to be honest with myself where the scripture proofs were leading, and not to let my former training from my youth upward take precedence over what scripture was telling me. I am quite willing to be thought a fool, as long as the scriptures are there to confirm things for me.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I do. There is scripture proof enough that Satan and his devils were destroyed - ..

Yet you fail to post it.

Here's why your theory doesn't work.
If the Prince of this world,the lord of this world,was destroyed then God is allowing all that is evil to continue unabated. And,being Satan et al are destroyed, that means they cannot be blamed for any of it today. Or for the millinea since 70 A.D.

And while some will claim it is fallen man's nature that condemns this world to suffer so, if one also accepts God designated His Elect prior to creation and their names are in His Lambs Book of Life, again those not the Elect are the conduits of evil in Omniscient God's sight. And only be abuse Sin pre existed creation of this realm.