The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[brightfame52]

He giveth Life unto the World !

Jn 6:33

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

In other words the Life given from the bread of Heaven to the World In Jn 6:33 is the same as that given by the Last Adam of 1 Cor 15:45 and its based upon His Redeeming Death and Blood. When Jesus made the statement in Jn 6:33 it was based on His Finished work on behalf of that World He Loved and gave Himself for Eph 5:25 the Church !

Note something here in Jn 6:33, this Life is absolutely given, bestowed, or communicated, or imparted, and is not something as is falsely implied, as merely offered, or made available, such who teach or imply that are nothing short of proud antichrists, but Christ is said to be specifically giving Life unto this World, Life out of Him Jn 1:4

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

The Life is Spiritual/Resurrection and Eternal Life, New Birth Life ! 31

 

[brightfame52]

He giveth Life unto the World !2

Again, the Life referred to by the Manna from Heaven Jn 6:33 is Spiritual, Eternal, and Resurrection Life, and its given to a World that He redeemed, A world that is His Sheep, or His Church, or His Body, or the Elect of God, or Israel as the Israel of God ! The Israel of God has nothing to do with ethnic national israel, Abraham's physical offspring of the flesh, for they are not even the Children of God Rom 9:8, but Spiritual Israel Born of God, An Israel Created by God's Word of Promise like unto Isaac who was after the Spirit Gal 4:29

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Again a differential in Israel born after the flesh and Israel born after the Spirit !

Now all who belong to that World [of Jn 6:33] are given Life out of Christ's Death Jn 6:51

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

This speaks of an exchange, His Life is given so that the Life of the World for whom He is giving His Life for, is given Life, Life out of condemnation and death, and if any of that world is not given Life, Christ has been cheated !

 

[rebuilder 454]

That particular verse is so often misinterpreted. If you read the whole passage, Romans 12:3-8, it will become pretty apparent that it is not faith that is being measured. Rather the passage is speaking about gifts of grace. It is those gifts that are being measured (given out) consistent with the faith of the one receiving the gift.

Rom 12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;
Rom 12:7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
Rom 12:8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

That particular verse is so often misinterpreted. If you read the whole passage, Romans 12:3-8, it will become pretty apparent that it is not faith that is being measured. Rather the passage is speaking about gifts of grace. It is those gifts that are being measured (given out) consistent with the faith of the one receiving the gift.

Rom 12:6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;
Rom 12:7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
Rom 12:8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

You..." No, faith is not given to each man"
Not surprising that those thinking one verse voids another are, ironically, the ones omitting verses.
It is beyond clear that it says what it says.
The entire walk is a walk of faith.
It is both given in measure and acquired.
It is vividly demonstrated in peter walking on water.
Initial faith to stand up and try it.
Then added faith at Jesus beckoning.
Then faith failing, or leaving him.

 

[JBO]

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

You..." No, faith is not given to each man"
Not surprising that those thinking one verse voids another are, ironically, the ones omitting verses.
It is beyond clear that it says what it says.
The entire walk is a walk of faith.
It is both given in measure and acquired.
It is vividly demonstrated in peter walking on water.
Initial faith to stand up and try it.
Then added faith at Jesus beckoning.
Then faith failing, or leaving him.

Faith is not measured out by God. Faith is not given by anyone, not even God. It is achieved, developed, acquired through studying God's written revelation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Healing as part of the atonement.

Luke 13:16-24
16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?​

Galatians 3:14-29
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise​

 

[rebuilder 454]

Faith is not measured out by God. Faith is not given by anyone, not even God. It is achieved, developed, acquired through studying God's written revelation.

Far from it.
The unsaved are saved by faith.
Every child of God is given that measure of faith to be saved and walk as a babe in Christ . it is at initial salvation and it covers them in their fledging walk until their faith is developed into maturity.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Faith is not measured out by God. Faith is not given by anyone, not even God. It is achieved, developed, acquired through studying God's written revelation.

Mark 9:23-25
New King James Version
23 Jesus said to him, “If[a] you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”​

24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

 

[JBO]

Far from it.
The unsaved are saved by faith.
Every child of God is given that measure of faith to be saved and walk as a babe in Christ . it is at initial salvation and it covers them in their fledging walk until their faith is developed into maturity.

And just where in Scripture did you get that bit of silliness. Book, chapter and verse(s) please.

 

[JBO]

Mark 9:23-25​

New King James Version​

23 Jesus said to him, “If[a] you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”​

24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

For the Christian, God, by giving the indwelling Holy Spirit helps in all manner of ways. But none of those ways is ever said in scripture to be His giving faith at any lever.

And by the way, that is anothe of those poorly translated/interpreted verses by the KJV.

(ESV) Mar 9:23 And Jesus said to him, "'If you can'! All things are possible for one who believes."

(NASB) Mar 9:23 And Jesus said to him, " 'If You can?' All things are possible to him who believes."

Verse 23 is Jesus answer to the Father who requested of Jesus (in v.22), ...."But if You can do anything, take pity on us and help us!"

The "if you can" was a mocking, exclamatory response from Jesus to the father's questioning Jesus' ability to do anything about his son's condition.

 

[rebuilder 454]

For the Christian, God, by giving the indwelling Holy Spirit helps in all manner of ways. But none of those ways is ever said in scripture to be His giving faith at any lever.

WHAT PURE BALONEY.



Here ya go. Change it for us


3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
(IOW FAITH imparted)

rom 10
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? (IOW NO FAITH) ,and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? (IOW NO FAITH), and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (IOW FAITH imparted)


mat 14
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Clearly and vividly Peter goes from zero faith the walking on water.

AT THE WORDS OF JESUS FAITH WAS IMPARTED.
.....THEN ALL LOST.

IMPARTED,THEN LOST.


Sad you consider the Word OF GOD silly.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Faith is not measured out by God. Faith is not given by anyone, not even God. It is achieved, developed, acquired through studying God's written revelation.

Paranoid over God giving faith??????
You must see faith as a cosmic substance, forbidden to be connected to God.

 

[JBO]

WHAT PURE BALONEY.



Here ya go. Change it for us


3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
(IOW FAITH imparted)

rom 10
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? (IOW NO FAITH) ,and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? (IOW NO FAITH), and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (IOW FAITH imparted)


mat 14
28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.
29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.
30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?
Clearly and vividly Peter goes from zero faith the walking on water.

AT THE WORDS OF JESUS FAITH WAS IMPARTED.
.....THEN ALL LOST.

IMPARTED,THEN LOST.


Sad you consider the Word OF GOD silly.

Romans 10:17 is NOT a statement of faith imparted.

And of course in Matthew 14, Peter again began to sink and it was Jesus who took him by that hand and saved him. So if anything Peter went from some faith to none or at least to little faith. Doesn't seem like any imparting there.

 

[JBO]

Paranoid over God giving faith??????
You must see faith as a cosmic substance, forbidden to be connected to God.

Faith in God is believing in God. It is mental assent plus trusting in God. God provides all the data and information in His written revelation that anyone needs to believe in Him. There is no need for any imparting. If you are too lazy to make use of what God has provided, then you likely will not believe.

 

[Ritajanice]

I’m learning a lot about faith at the moment......

God said to me today via his Spirit.

Where is your faith, is it in me or is it in yourself....that really spoke to me ....when I was walking in self I was depressed....then when he spoke those words to me....I understood that my “ Faith “ is in he and he alone.

That has been such a revelation...Praise God!!

 

[Ritajanice]

Faith in God is believing in God. It is mental assent plus trusting in God. God provides all the data and information in His written revelation that anyone needs to believe in Him. There is no need for any imparting. If you are too lazy to make use of what God has provided, then you likely will not believe.

How can it be mental assent....if you are Born of God?

Faith is knowing that God exists and that can only happen if we are Born Again...we have received through revelation, the Spirit of God.into our hearts, he’s taken up residence, via his Spirit?...

Revelation comes through the Living word of God...not mental assent, that would be impossible...

You can’t believe in God without his Spirit....he doesn’t recognise us without the Spirit.

Mental assent saves no one.from eternal damnation.

 

[JBO]

How can it be mental assent....if you are Born of God?

Faith is knowing that God exists and that can only happen if we are Born Again...

That is simply not true.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Clearly, Paul is saying there that the existence of God is known is evident within them from His creation.

Believing something or someone is simple mental assent. Believing IN something or someone is mental assent plus trust. Faith is believing IN something or someone. That is a foundational definition.

 

[Ritajanice]

That is simply not true.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Clearly, Paul is saying there that the existence of God is known is evident within them from His creation.

Believing something or someone is simple mental assent. Believing IN something or someone is mental assent plus trust. Faith is believing IN something or someone. That is a foundational definition.

The existence of “ KNOWING” God is through his Spirit...His LIVING SPIRIT .every Born Again child of God..knows that he exists through the Spirit.

For without the Spirit of God...we are none of His!!

Only a Born Again will see the Kingdom of God.....Spirit gives birth to spirit....

We are talking “ BORN AGAIN “ BORN OF GOD”

 

[brightfame52]

Christ applys His Salvation too !

If Christ did not also apply His Salvation, what His Death accomplished, it would be incomplete ! However Jesus says Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

When these all men are drawn to Christ, it means that they have been given by New Birth converting or saving Faith. Drawing is Faith coming to believe on Christ for all of Salvation, because He has for them [ones being drawn] bore the wrath of God in their place and stead, So He has delivered them from the wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10;5:9 !

Now Christ having died for us, must also as our Savior, apply The Merits of His Death in giving Faith by His Spirit and Word ! If He did not Himself apply the benefits of His Own Death, He would not be a Complete Saviour and He would not be worthy of all the Honor and Glory of it ! So in Jn 12:32 Jesus is saying that He will apply Salvation unto all men that He was Lifted up in behalf of, or that He died for !

 

[brightfame52]

Produces a Life of Faith !


The Death of Christ produces a Life of Faith as its fruit. Gal 2:20

20 I[and the whole Body of Christ] am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Basically what Paul means here is that, the Life of Faith he now lives, is because of, or the result of Christ Living in him, for He in us is the Author and Finisher of Our Faith. What is True of Paul in Gal 2:20 is also true of everyone for whom, like Paul, gave Himself for them, as He gave Himself for Paul; In fact it applys to the Church in that the very same word gave paradidōmi is used here in Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Again the same Two words in Gal 2:20 "Loved and gave" ! Now that greek word for gave paradidōmi actually means:

to give oneself up for, give oneself to death for, to undergo death for (the salvation of) one, Galatians 2:20; Ephesians 5:25;

Folks if Christ's death did not effect Salvation, it was worthless, unfruitful, for converting Life must come out of His Death for it to serve the Purpose of God ! So the Life of Faith that each member of Christ's body the Church lives, it is the result and due to Christ's Faithfulness, which results to Him coming into them by the Life Giving Spirit that He is 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit and the fruit of the Spirit in them produces a Life of Faith ! 31

 

[brightfame52]

If Lifted Up shall draw all men unto me !

Jn 12:32-33

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

What Jesus means here I believe is that before His Death and for the most part only a few men had been drawn to Him in Faith and had been given a True Knowledge, and that few were mainly restricted to ethnic jews located in the land of israel, a very small remnant, and the rest of humanity along with the rest of the ethnic jews who were not of the remnant, lied in darkness and ignorance of the True God and His Salvation, that ethnic jews were ignorant of Salvation and Righteousness God's Way is indicated here Rom 10:1-3

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3 For they[ethnic jews] being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Yet the gentile world lied in much ignorance and darkness as well, all of which was the Work of Satan !

But the Death of Christ was going to change that and put a big dent into Satans Kingdom of Darkness, and as the writer of Hebrews declares here Heb 2:14-15,16

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Notice this death blow to the power and kingdom of satan came by means of Christ's Death, and not His Resurrection, though His Resurrection was an evidence and proof that His Death was victorious over Death and satans domain of darkness, over all for whom He died in the Seed of Abraham Vs 16 ! His Death ensures that all the Spiritual Seed of Abraham, men and women from all nations, that they be drawn to Him in Faith and Repentance and begin to Live by Faith !