The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[JBO]

Yes it does...and “ Yet again “ you can’t answer my questions.

Spirit gives birth to spirit.....is a “ Living Birth “....that is Living Faith from God...we have the Spirit of God testifying with our spirit.....why aren’t you understanding what that means, if you are Born Again?

If anyone theology is faulty...it is yours....no questions ever answered and you don’t even know what “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “ means.....as we can see.

It must be awful not knowing who one is in Christ .

So, I see no reason to discuss any further with you.....you just aren’t understanding....

How can “ YOU” have faith without the Spirit of God @JBO .....?

I have to leave now, but I will come back later and show you from scripture what you have all wrong.

 

[Ritajanice]

I have to leave now, but I will come back later and show you from scripture what you have all wrong.

You have it wrong..and I’ve shown it to you quoting Gods word.

You dismiss his word and NEVER answer my questions...

I know by scripture that I am Born Again..plus I received Gods Living word into my heart....” Spirit gives birth to spirit...a Living spiritual birth..same as flesh gives birth to flesh....a living physical birth.

I don’t need you to post scripture..I go by Born Again scripture...which you seem to know nothing of..as you never answer my questions.

Spirit gives birth to spirit?....as a Born Again what does it mean?

You should easily be able to answer, yet you never do.


Works without God given faith..is dead...it’s just faith of man..

And living, saving faith is not something we work up on our own. Rather, it comes through God's Spirit. Faith is part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22, King James Version), which God gives us when we repent and are baptized (Acts 2:38). ) God begins the process of reconciling us to Himself by calling us (John 6:44) and leading us to repentance (Romans 2:4).

 

[rebuilder 454]

Faith is both given and acquired.
It is both.
Not either < > or.

 

[Ritajanice]

Faith is given by God and received by his children into their heart.

Spirit gives birth to spirit....only then do we have the faith to walk in the Spirit....of course this also has to be revealed to our hearts by the Holy Spirit....all takes time to understand the word of God....I was fortunate enough to know I was Born of God / Born Again, as he testifies with our spirit that we are his children.....for some, I’ve heard it’s a much slower process...

I don’t need to continually search the scriptures..to know I am Born Again..I feel sorry for those who don’t know this and pray for them to have it revealed to their heart by God, via his Holy Spirit.

In Jesus Name...Amen!


Rather, we are declared righteous by faith alone, and this faith must be a living faith that endeavors to live according to God's Word in gratitude for salvation. If works are not present, our faith is dead (James 2:26). And a dead faith, because it is ineffectual, is really no faith at all.

people cannot produce this justifying faith, or trust, in their own hearts, because ‘the man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him’ (1 Corinthians 2:14). In fact, ‘the sinful mind is hostile to God’ (Romans 8:7). It is the Holy Spirit who gives people faith to recognize that ‘Jesus is Lord’ (1 Corinthians 12:3). The Holy Spirit works this faith by means of the gospel (Romans 10:17). We believe, therefore, that a person’s conversion is entirely the work of God’s grace.

Conversion to saving faith has always been the work of the Holy Spirit. As the Holy Spirit changes hearts in New Testament times, so he did in the days of the Old Testament.

 

[rebuilder 454]

As we grow so does faith.
Faith builds.

 

[Behold]

I have never said, nor do I believe, that water washes away sins. Have you ever seen me write that? No you haven't.

Let me help you try to be honest, as you are failing.

Here is your quote..

@JBO said.

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''


SEE THAT ? You wrote that..., and you are teaching that FORGIVENESS, happens in the WATER.... (Baptized)

So, you are a water cult disciple... and you'll prove it again.

Now let me help you.

"forgiveness" happens when the Believer gives God their faith.
And that can happen in a Prison Cell, or a Hospital bed, or driving in your car.

But WATER CULT disciples, like you, demand that it happens in the WATER, as that is what "WATER CULT's " teach.

 

[Behold]

Were his sins washed away? If so,, when and how?

By the Blood of Jesus, when God redeemed Him from His sin.

 

[Behold]

How about quoting even one post from me that demands that water is a part of my salvation?

@JBO said.

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''

@JBO said.

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''

@JBO said.

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''

 

[JBO]

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''


SEE THAT ? You wrote that..., and you are teaching that FORGIVENESS, happens in the WATER.... (Baptized)

Yes forgiveness of sins happens when one is baptized. That said, that does not mean that water or baptism in water is the forgiving agent. Clearly the forgiving agent is God. And I have never taught or said anything other than that.

Also it seems that I am in good company when I say and teach that forgiveness of sins happens when the repentant believer is water baptized.


Mar 1:4 John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Luk 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Mar 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved...

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Act 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Act 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Perhaps you should rethink you heretical teaching.

 

[JBO]

Now let me help you.

"forgiveness" happens when the Believer gives God their faith.
And that can happen in a Prison Cell, or a Hospital bed, or driving in your car.

Give us the scripture that says that.

 

[JBO]

Faith is both given and acquired.
It is both.
Not either < > or.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If faith comes by hearing....then hearing is by the word of God...

Who is Alive in Spirit?...therefore if we hear by the will of God...how and where do we hear his word?

How can one have faith without knowing that God exists @JBO ?

How do you know that God exists and is Alive in Spirit?

Only God can prepare our hearts to receive his Living word...soil represents the heart. And his word says.

Matthew 13

New International Version

​

The Parable of the Sower
13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path.20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”​

The Parable of the Weeds​

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”​

The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast
31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field.32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”
33 He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds[b] of flour until it worked all through the dough.”
34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. 35 So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
“I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”[c]​

The Parable of the Weeds Explained​

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.​

 

[JBO]

If faith comes by hearing....then hearing is by the word of God...

Who is Alive in Spirit?...therefore if we hear by the will of God...how and where do we hear his word?

How can one have faith without knowing that God exists @JBO ?

How do you know that God exists and is Alive in Spirit?

Only God can prepare our hearts to receive his Living word...soil represents the heart. And his word says.

Matthew 13​

​

New International Version​

​

​

The Parable of the Sower​

13 That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2 Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”​

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”​

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:​

“Though seeing, they do not see;​

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.​

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:​

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;​

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.​

15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;​

they hardly hear with their ears,​

and they have closed their eyes.​

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,​

hear with their ears,​

understand with their hearts​

and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]​

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.​

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path.20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”​

The Parable of the Weeds​

24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.​

27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’​

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.​

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’​

29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”​

The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast​

31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field.32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”​

33 He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds[b] of flour until it worked all through the dough.”​

34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. 35 So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:​

“I will open my mouth in parables,​

I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”[c]​

The Parable of the Weeds Explained​

36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”​

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.​

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.​

Too bad you do not know and understand what all of that means.

 

[JBO]

If faith comes by hearing....then hearing is by the word of God...

Yes, but in Romans 10:17 the word is from the Greek ῥῆμα [rhēma] meaning the spoken word. It is not the Greek word λόγος [logos]. And it is not the word from God, rather it is the word about God or Christ.

Who is Alive in Spirit?...therefore if we hear by the will of God...how and where do we hear his word?

I am not sure what you even mean by Alive in Spirit? That phrase does not appear anywhere in the Bible.

As for how and where do we hear His word? We either hear it from another preaching and teaching His word or with today's availability of the written word, we could read (hear) and study His word.

How can one have faith without knowing that God exists @JBO ?

Paul declared that everyone can know God exists;

Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Only God can prepare our hearts to receive his Living word...soil represents the heart. And his word says.

Jesus said,

John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--

That is pretty much what Paul said in Romans 10.

 

[JBO]

@JBO said.

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''

@JBO said.

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''

@JBO said.

"" When that forgiveness actually occurs is when that penitent believer is baptized.''''

Yes, that is when God forgives the sins of the penitent believer, or so it says in scripture as I have shown you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, but in Romans 10:17 the word is from the Greek ῥῆμα [rhēma] meaning the spoken word. It is not the Greek word λόγος [logos]. And it is not the word from God, rather it is the word about God or Christ.

I am not sure what you even mean by Alive in Spirit? That phrase does not appear anywhere in the Bible.

As for how and where do we hear His word? We either hear it from another preaching and teaching His word or with today's availability of the written word, we could read (hear) and study His word.

Paul declared that everyone can know God exists;

Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Jesus said,

John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me--

How can you be taught by God without his Holy Spirit to lead you through scripture?

We must be Born Again ?

That is pretty much what Paul said in Romans 10.

Once again none of my questions answered.

Yes, we hear the word , being taught all about Jesus bin School ....RE...without that how would we know about Jesus.

So..explain...what does is his Living word mean?how can we know his Spirit is Alive and Active?


And YES...there is scripture to say that Gods word is Alive and Active, @JBO .

I will try one more time...how do we know his word is Alive and Active.... @JBO ?

A Born Again knows that God exists...that can only come via the Holy Spirit?

God also says that the carnal mind is enmity towards God...so how could the carnal mind know that he exists @JBO ....Gods word says they wouldn’t and couldn’t.

 

[Ritajanice]

Too bad you do not know and understand what all of that means.

ble Verses About Discernment​

A Gift From God​

God is the source of wisdom and discernment:

Daniel 2:21
He [God] changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. (NIV84)

1 Corinthians 2:12–15
What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things … (NIV)

The Word of God​

Lack of discernment always accompanies a deficiency in biblical knowledge. When believers are familiar with the truth taught in God’s Word, they can more easily detect what is right and wrong, or true and false. The Word of God itself can discern:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. (ESV)

Psalm 119:130
The teaching of your word gives light, so even the simple can understand. (NLT)

Failure to discern what is truth from error, good from bad, or what is biblical from heretical, stems from not saturating our minds with the Word of God:

Hebrews 5:11–14
There is much more we would like to say about this, but it is difficult to explain, especially since you are spiritually dull and don’t seem to listen. You have been believers so long now that you ought to be teaching others. Instead, you need someone to teach you again the basic things about God’s word. You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food. For someone who lives on milk is still an infant and doesn’t know how to do what is right. Solid food is for those who are mature, who through training have the skill to recognize the difference between right and wrong. (NLT)

Romans 2:18
You know what he wants; you know what is right because you have been taught his law. (NLT)

 

[Behold]

Yes forgiveness of sins happens when one is baptized.

Good, you are not trying to lie about what you teach, again. @JBO
I appreciate that.
So, your RCC Lie, is a Cross denying insult to God.

See, God saves by the Blood of Jesus, and that is "Grace through faith".

Nothing less.

Let me show you something..

The RCC teaches what you believe, = "forgiveness of sin happens when you get wet".

So, what about people in Prison who Believe?
What about people in Communist countries where they wont let you own a bible, and will kill you if you confess Christ as your Savior.
You can't get water baptized in a prison cell, or in one of these Atheistic countries.
You can't get water baptized on your death bed, when you accept Christ as you lay dying.

So, if can see this, then maybe you can escape your cult. @JBO

 

[Behold]

Give us the scripture that says that.

"All that believe on the Lord, shall be saved".

"To them who worketh not, but believe on God who Justifies the Ungodly, their faith is counted as righteousness".

Jesus said.., ."all that BELIEVE (Faith) in Me, i give unto you Eternal Life, and you shall never go to Hell.(Perish)"

 

[Behold]

Yes, that is when God forgives the sins of the penitent believer, or so it says in scripture as I have shown you.

You've shown us that you are a Religious Outreach Tool : of the RCC.
Nothing more.
They have you giving us their "baptismal regeneration" nonsense, while you sit there and dont even realize yourself.

Well, no worries, WE realize you...
Believe it. <