The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[quietthinker]

The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?​

At one ment. One with humanity .....he carried our burdens....he knew what it was like to be hungry and thirsty and tired. He knew what it was like to want privacy, to feel lonely, to want friendship. There was joy when the downtrodden were liberated, there was anger when deception ie, God being misrepresented was the religious narrative.

 

[rebuilder 454]

In being made of a woman and made under law, He took on the seed of Abraham and not the seed of mankind in general, for all mankind is not the Seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Now in taking on the seed of Abraham, Paul says that He was made sin for us !

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us [The seed of Abraham], who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Who are the us in 2 Cor 5:21 that Paul is referring to ? Is it all mankind without exception ? No it is not. Let us examine the scripture to find the answer. " When the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His own Son [meaning He was God's Son before Mary's Son], made of a women, made under the law, to redeem [ not to make redemption possible] them [ His members, His body] that were under the Law [Limited redemption]that [in order that] they may receive the adoption of Sons.

Now coming as such [ under the law] He came and took upon Him the seed of Abraham. The seed of Abraham is a chosen people !

Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

So its plain that He came and Identified with and to redeem a Chosen People, and not the whole world of mankind.

In taking on the seed of Abraham, He took on all their Transgressions, and died for their sins !

Isa 53:4-11

4 Surely he hath borne our [seed of Abraham] griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed [The seed of Abraham], he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many [The seed of Abraham]; for he shall bear their [The seed of Abraham] iniquities.

1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our [The seed of Abraham] sins according to the scriptures;

Yes, in all places above where we see the pronouns our, us, we, their, it refers to the Seed of Abraham !

Lets not forget it is written that He took on the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
1

I am glad you pointed out that healing is part of the atonement.
Healing belongs to us. It is our portion.

 

[brightfame52]

I am glad you pointed out that healing is part of the atonement.
Healing belongs to us. It is out portion.

Yes but understand, the healing is Salvation, Forgiveness of sins, and then imparting Spiritual life. Its not talking about healing people of cancer and sicknesses of that physical nature.

 

[brightfame52]

The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?​

At one ment. One with humanity .....he carried our burdens....he knew what it was like to be hungry and thirsty and tired. He knew what it was like to want privacy, to feel lonely, to want friendship. There was joy when the downtrodden were liberated, there was anger when deception ie, God being misrepresented was the religious narrative.

Did it accomplish Salvation for them He died for ?

 

[brightfame52]

It bought all for whom He died with a Price !

1 Cor 6:19-20

19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

No doubt these scriptures apply strictly to the believers in Christ, however, Just when were they bought with a Price ? Was it before or after they became believers ? 24

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes but understand, the healing is Salvation, Forgiveness of sins, and then imparting Spiritual life. Its not talking about healing people of cancer and sicknesses of that physical nature.

Lol
No, you are hoping that.
But it is physical healing.
Sorry to disappoint you that we are promised healing.
Salvation is promised.
Many do not take what is offered.
That does not mean i need to change the bible because apparently all are not saved.
Nor do i need my bible changed to make cessation beliefs that aren't in the bible valid.
The cessationist refuses to acknowledge the bible.
That is the heart of the matter

 

[quietthinker]

Did it accomplish Salvation for them He died for ?

All are in Adam, no choice of their own and they cannot oft out. All are in Jesus by no choice of their own however, they can opt out by rejecting what is already theirs.

 

[brightfame52]

It set us free from unbelief , a servant of sin !

Christ death was for the purpose of setting free from unbelief/servitude of sin for all whom He died, if it did not produce that result for each of them He died for, it failed the purpose of God. Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Now even though this was written to believers, it applies to all for whom He died, and God's purpose therein was to set us free from the service of sin and or unbelief ! Thats primarily what being a servant of sin is, simply a unbeliever in the flesh. When Jesus said this Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

He means no more by it than they are unbelievers, and in servitude to it. Here in Rom 6:6 Paul is saying to and of those Christ died for , that the connection we have with sin in our adamic nature, by which we are imprisoned to sin and unbelief, it has been destroyed, in order that we be no more servants of sin, unbelief, which equates to Jesus having by His death for us, setting us free from it Jn 8:36

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 24

 

[brightfame52]

Lol
No, you are hoping that.
But it is physical healing.
Sorry to disappoint you that we are promised healing.
Salvation is promised.
Many do not take what is offered.
That does not mean i need to change the bible because apparently all are not saved.
Nor do i need my bible changed to make cessation beliefs that aren't in the bible valid.
The cessationist refuses to acknowledge the bible.
That is the heart of the matter

Again has nothing to do with physical healing. And the healing isnt offered, its done as a result of His Stripes.

 

[brightfame52]

All are in Adam, no choice of their own and they cannot oft out. All are in Jesus by no choice of their own however, they can opt out by rejecting what is already theirs.

False, and only Christs Church is in Him, all of them, His Wife, just as only Eve was in Adam originally, and those that belong to Christ, in Him, cant reject anything, they can only receive what Christ has done for them.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Again has nothing to do with physical healing. And the healing isnt offered, its done as a result of His Stripes.

Salvation and healing are offered.
Not automatic.
The woman Jesus called a dog is in direct conflict of all your sentences.


Your LOGIC makes James a lie.
" is any among you sick...."
" ...the prayer of faith will heal the sick"
It is just salvation according to you.
Further, we do not receive a new heart at salvation according to your applied logic. The old one is "healed"....not biblical

HERE IS THE SAME GREEK word peter uses when he declared "...by whose stripes you WERE HEALED" when quoting Isaiah...(G2390)

Mat 8:8 - The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. G2390

Mat 8:13 - And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed G2390 in the selfsame hour.

Mat 13:15 - For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal G2390 them.

Mat 15:28 - Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole G2390 from that very hour.

Mar 5:29 - And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed G2390 of that plague


You are really going to challenge this next one, it puts PHYSICAL healing and conversion together:

Act 28:27 - For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal G2390 them.

Go ahead and look it up.
There are many many more.
I only posted a fraction of the weight of GODS WORD you need changed to assume healing is not in the atonement.
You might as well say Jesus is not in the atonement.

 

[brightfame52]

Salvation and healing are offered.
Not automatic.
The woman Jesus called a dog is in direct conflict of all your sentences.


Your LOGIC makes James a lie.
" is any among you sick...."
" ...the prayer of faith will heal the sick"
It is just salvation according to you.
Further, we do not receive a new heart at salvation according to your applied logic. The old one is "healed"....not biblical

HERE IS THE SAME GREEK word peter uses when he declared "...by whose stripes you WERE HEALED" when quoting Isaiah...(G2390)

Mat 8:8 - The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. G2390

Mat 8:13 - And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed G2390 in the selfsame hour.

Mat 13:15 - For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal G2390 them.

Mat 15:28 - Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole G2390 from that very hour.

Mar 5:29 - And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed G2390 of that plague


You are really going to challenge this next one, it puts PHYSICAL healing and conversion together:

Act 28:27 - For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal G2390 them.

Go ahead and look it up.
There are many many more.
I only posted a fraction of the weight of GODS WORD you need changed to assume healing is not in the atonement.
You might as well say Jesus is not in the atonement.

No they are not offered, thats made up mans religion. Salvation is given as a Gift of God, whoever Christ died for, receive as a Gift, Healing? Salvation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It set us free from unbelief , a servant of sin !

Christ death was for the purpose of setting free from unbelief/servitude of sin for all whom He died, if it did not produce that result for each of them He died for, it failed the purpose of God. Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Now even though this was written to believers, it applies to all for whom He died, and God's purpose therein was to set us free from the service of sin and or unbelief ! Thats primarily what being a servant of sin is, simply a unbeliever in the flesh. When Jesus said this Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

He means no more by it than they are unbelievers, and in servitude to it. Here in Rom 6:6 Paul is saying to and of those Christ died for , that the connection we have with sin in our adamic nature, by which we are imprisoned to sin and unbelief, it has been destroyed, in order that we be no more servants of sin, unbelief, which equates to Jesus having by His death for us, setting us free from it Jn 8:36

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 24

Lol
You omit the fact that physical healing is part of the atonement in order to cling to a hope that it is not.
Circular and not at all biblical.
You are demonstrating "condemnation prior to investigation"

You were taught cessationism.
The men that taught you were CENTERED in their own failure to read their bibles.

Healing at the cross is so basic.
We first see it in moses making a brass serpent and putting it on a pole.
Oooops that makes a cross.
Holding it up.
Everyone LOOKING ON IT is healed.
Serpent points to Jesus
Pole points to cross
Holding it up points to Jesus crucified
Looking on it points to a condition or requirement
Healed Points to....IT WAS GUARANTEED.
But i am sure that one is rejected also by your teachers.
They can have some cunning reframing of it so they can avoid praying in faith for the sick.

Hmmmm....that must be why cessationist church leaders have no success in healing the sick.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It set us free from unbelief , a servant of sin !

Christ death was for the purpose of setting free from unbelief/servitude of sin for all whom He died, if it did not produce that result for each of them He died for, it failed the purpose of God. Rom 6:6

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Now even though this was written to believers, it applies to all for whom He died, and God's purpose therein was to set us free from the service of sin and or unbelief ! Thats primarily what being a servant of sin is, simply a unbeliever in the flesh. When Jesus said this Jn 8:34

34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

He means no more by it than they are unbelievers, and in servitude to it. Here in Rom 6:6 Paul is saying to and of those Christ died for , that the connection we have with sin in our adamic nature, by which we are imprisoned to sin and unbelief, it has been destroyed, in order that we be no more servants of sin, unbelief, which equates to Jesus having by His death for us, setting us free from it Jn 8:36

36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 24

Lol
You omit the fact that physical healing is part of the atonement in order to cling to a hope that it is not.
Circular and not at all biblical.
You are demonstrating "condemnation prior to investigation"

You were taught cessationism.
The men that taught you were CENTERED in their own failure to read their bibles.

Healing at the cross is so basic.
We first see it in moses making a brass serpent and putting it on a pole.
Oooops that makes a cross.
Holding it up.
Everyone LOOKING ON IT is healed.
Serpent points to Jesus
Pole points to cross
Holding it up points to Jesus crucified
Looking on it points to a condition or requirement
Healed Points to....IT WAS GUARANTEED.
But i am sure that one is rejected also by your teachers.
They can have some cunning reframing of it so they can avoid praying in faith for the sick.

No they are not offered, thats made up mans religion. Salvation is given as a Gift of God, whoever Christ died for, receive as a Gift, Healing? Salvation.

Hmmmm....that must be why cessationist church leaders have no success in healing the sick.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No they are not offered, thats made up mans religion. Salvation is given as a Gift of God, whoever Christ died for, receive as a Gift, Healing? Salvation.

Is it Gods will that all RECIEVE SALVATION?
If it is not offered, it has to be automatically ascribed with no responsibility on my part.
No participation of the unsaved????
They were born saved?????

 

[rebuilder 454]

No they are not offered, thats made up mans religion. Salvation is given as a Gift of God, whoever Christ died for, receive as a Gift, Healing? Salvation.

None of the verses posted agree with your beliefs.
You are taking a stand on omissions.
Verses have no weight in your doctrine.

 

[brightfame52]

Lol
You omit the fact that physical healing is part of the atonement in order to cling to a hope that it is not.
Circular and not at all biblical.
You are demonstrating "condemnation prior to investigation"

You were taught cessationism.
The men that taught you were CENTERED in their own failure to read their bibles.

Healing at the cross is so basic.
We first see it in moses making a brass serpent and putting it on a pole.
Oooops that makes a cross.
Holding it up.
Everyone LOOKING ON IT is healed.
Serpent points to Jesus
Pole points to cross
Holding it up points to Jesus crucified
Looking on it points to a condition or requirement
Healed Points to....IT WAS GUARANTEED.
But i am sure that one is rejected also by your teachers.
They can have some cunning reframing of it so they can avoid praying in faith for the sick.

Hmmmm....that must be why cessationist church leaders have no success in healing the sick.

I havent omitted anything., Christs death redeems from unbelief, isnt that wonderful ?

 

[brightfame52]

Is it Gods will that all RECIEVE SALVATION?
If it is not offered, it has to be automatically ascribed with no responsibility on my part.
No participation of the unsaved????
They were born saved?????

No its not Gods will for everyone to receive Salvation, thats man made religion, those who God wants saved, Christ was sent to save them, and He accomplished His Fathers Will, do you doubt it ?

 

[brightfame52]

None of the verses posted agree with your beliefs.
You are taking a stand on omissions.
Verses have no weight in your doctrine.

It says it to me, Im not you and you not me.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It says it to me, Im not you and you not me.

If there was only one verse challenging your cessationist beliefs , you may have a legitimate hope for healing to be ejected from the cross.
The one extra biblical belief you came up with is 100% debunked by GODS ETERNAL WORD. ( in a myriad of verses)
I just happen to make it my business to know basic facts of the bible.
That is the difference.
You are welcome to be uninformed if that is your desire.

Healing as part of the atonement is a fact, not a belief, as the bible DECLARES.
Moses is your first clue