22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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WPM

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How does a person argue with Amil imaginations.

Try producing a verse or two that says God dumped them and made His covenant with you as you were just as wretched as they are.

I think Christians look down their noses at these foks a bit too much...


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved....


Watch it, when Jesus returns, the fullness of the gentiles is finally come in.

Then you will be the point of contention for speaking against them.

Amils are snoots towards sinners of Israel.

Are you serious? Jesus taught in Matthew 21:42-46: “Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.”

Because of disobedience, God’s glory and exclusive favor was removed from ethnic Israel and given to a wider community of followers of Christ, containing both Jews and Gentiles. God’s whole purpose with man extends out beyond the borders of Israel and stretches out to the whole world.

A careful analysis of this passage undoubtedly reveals the person and power of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is here described as “this Stone.” The reading succinctly outlines the contrast between God’s dealings with His elect and that of the wicked. It is Him alone who breaks the stubborn will of man in salvation and brings him into perfect union with an offended God. For those who reject God’s only provision for sin, they meet Him as judge and are crushed.

This discourse showed these unbelieving religious Jews that because of their wanton rejection of Himself, Christ would extend His mercy to the Gentiles. The Stone here is unquestionably Christ, and evidently how one sees Him determines one’s ultimate and final eternal destiny. This nation, which is carefully identified with the kingdom of God, is the Church. This is clearly seen in the Lord’s wording. It would be a nation that brings forth the spiritual fruits of kingdom of God. Admittance into this nation is conditional upon one’s approach to, and acceptance of, this figurative stone in the reading. Christ said, “whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.”

The near exclusive favor that natural Israel had formerly enjoyed would now be graciously widened to include the previously darkened Gentile people. How could any Christian miss the spiritual import of this teaching? The kingdom has been taken from Israel as a nation and given to another nation. Who is that nation? It is the largely Gentile New Testament Church comprised of all believers (both Jew and Gentile).
 
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Truther

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You are trying to supersede the new covenant with a new new covenant and a fresh cross. This is utter folly. It is blasphemy and heresy rolled into one. Is the cross not enough for you. Is Christ not enough? Is His blood not enough?
No, all I am saying is the covenant is someone else's in the future and we can be included in their future covenant today.

There is only one covenant.

It is to the fathers.

Your emotional response is expected.
 

Truther

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Onnce Again, Your claim of "National Israel" is False

Only the remnant will be saved by God's forekowledge and election, National Israel is blinded

Romans 11:2-8KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Are they permanently blinded , or only until the fullness of the gentiles be come in?

Reading comprehension problems in your Bible?...


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Do you know what "until" means?
 

Truther

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"All Israel" saved is NOT an ethnic people, but Israel of God! This is proven by the FACT that Gentiles of faith are grafted into the same good olive tree with Israel of faith. That confirms what Paul has said in Galatians. Israel of God is a people of faith from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue, and is how "all Israel shall be saved". Israel of God that shall ALL be saved are both those of circumcision (faithful Jews), as well as those of uncircumcision (faithful Gentiles).

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Who is "they" here?

You?
 

Truther

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The vital word differentiating salvation from no salvation is believing. Anyway, this is talking about spiritual baptism into Christ upon salvation, not your invented extra-biblical United Pentecostal false baptismal regeneration salvation. Salvation has always been by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Even the Old Testament saints looked forward by faith to the Messiah for their hope of salvation. The thief on the cross would not want to paradise according to your theories.
Mark 16:16 is a reference to Acts 2:38.
 

Truther

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All this is saying is that saying we believe will not save us if we have not received baptism of the Holy Spirit. Even the devils believe and tremble.

James 2:19 (KJV) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Matthew 3:11 (KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
No, all this is saying that you must obey Acts 2:38 to receive remission of sins for after life salvation.
 

Truther

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Not water baptism, spiritual baptism into Christ, something you have not been taught about in your United Pentecostal Church.
I suspected you were not baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins.

Thanks for revealing it.
 

Truther

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Are you serious? Jesus taught in Matthew 21:42-46: “Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.”

Because of disobedience, God’s glory and exclusive favor was removed from ethnic Israel and given to a wider community of followers of Christ, containing both Jews and Gentiles. God’s whole purpose with man extends out beyond the borders of Israel and stretches out to the whole world.

A careful analysis of this passage undoubtedly reveals the person and power of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is here described as “this Stone.” The reading succinctly outlines the contrast between God’s dealings with His elect and that of the wicked. It is Him alone who breaks the stubborn will of man in salvation and brings him into perfect union with an offended God. For those who reject God’s only provision for sin, they meet Him as judge and are crushed.

This discourse showed these unbelieving religious Jews that because of their wanton rejection of Himself, Christ would extend His mercy to the Gentiles. The Stone here is unquestionably Christ, and evidently how one sees Him determines one’s ultimate and final eternal destiny. This nation, which is carefully identified with the kingdom of God, is the Church. This is clearly seen in the Lord’s wording. It would be a nation that brings forth the spiritual fruits of kingdom of God. Admittance into this nation is conditional upon one’s approach to, and acceptance of, this figurative stone in the reading. Christ said, “whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.”

The near exclusive favor that natural Israel had formerly enjoyed would now be graciously widened to include the previously darkened Gentile people. How could any Christian miss the spiritual import of this teaching? The kingdom has been taken from Israel as a nation and given to another nation. Who is that nation? It is the largely Gentile New Testament Church comprised of all believers (both Jew and Gentile).
No, I have seen Amils and preterists for years bashing national Israel and boasting about themselves being saved instead.

They seem to be oblivious to Rom 11.

You show them and show them, but it never changes....


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


So, go ahead and exclude them from salvation, and by all means, don't brag how wonderful you are.
 

rwb

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25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Who is "they" here?

You?

Better question who does Jacob represent? See Romans 9 where Paul clearly proves that Israel of the flesh (without faith) will not be saved, but only the remnant of those of Israel who belong to the seed from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob shall be saved. Paul proves salvation is not according to ethnicity, but according to grace through faith. Paul is not a contradictory fool as you seem to think he is.
 
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Truth7t7

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Not water baptism, spiritual baptism into Christ, something you have not been taught about in your United Pentecostal Church.
The correct biblical terminology is being "Born Again"

John 3:6-7KJV
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
 

Truth7t7

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So, go ahead and exclude them from salvation, and by all means, don't brag how wonderful you are.
You claim "National Israel" is going to be saved

How is it determined who this "National Israel" Is?

100% in the bloodline of Abraham?
50% in the bloodline of Abraham?
25% in the bloodline of Abraham?

If your a registered citizen in Israel your "National Israel" and saved?

Who Is This "National Israel", please explain?
 
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Truther

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Better question who does Jacob represent? See Romans 9 where Paul clearly proves that Israel of the flesh (without faith) will not be saved, but only the remnant of those of Israel who belong to the seed from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob shall be saved. Paul proves salvation is not according to ethnicity, but according to grace through faith. Paul is not a contradictory fool as you seem to think he is.
I will simplify this for you.

2000 years ago to present......some.

Future...all.

There, no contradiction.

Think when you read Romans 11.
 

WPM

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Mark 16:16 is a reference to Acts 2:38.

There are 3 types of baptism, not 1 - baptism into Christ upon salvation, baptism in water, and baptism in the Holy Ghost. Anyway, that is not the topic here. You are diverting this thread. Please address the multiples holes in your theology that you have skipped around since you visited.
 

WPM

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I will simplify this for you.

2000 years ago to present......some.

Future...all.

There, no contradiction.

Think when you read Romans 11.

You are avoiding what he said again. That is all you do.
 
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WPM

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No, I have seen Amils and preterists for years bashing national Israel and boasting about themselves being saved instead.

They seem to be oblivious to Rom 11.

You show them and show them, but it never changes....


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


So, go ahead and exclude them from salvation, and by all means, don't brag how wonderful you are.
What? Are you suggesting that those that hate Christ are God's chosen people?

Once again you avoided the Scripture presented and the many arguments. That is who you are and that is what you do. It is a waste of time discussing with you. You are out of your depth here. A 11 years old would give a deeper response.
 
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covenantee

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25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Who is "they" here?

You?
Highlight the word "they" so you don't miss it. :laughing:

Just can't wrap your head around the Scriptural identity of "all Israel", can you.
 
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WPM

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Highlight the word "they" so you don't miss it.

Just can't wrap your head around the Scriptural identify of "all Israel", can you.
Bro, it is impossible to get him to directly address any rebuttals. That is because to do so would force him to admit he is wrong and is teaching error.
 
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covenantee

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Bro, it is impossible to get him to directly address any rebuttals. That is because to do so would force him to admit he is wrong and is teaching error.
Yeah. Another practitioner of interpretation by regurgitation.
 
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