22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Truther]

• To arrive at the ‘corporate position’ one has to totally ignore Paul’s overriding message of two types of Israeli in Romans 9–11 (and in the whole book of Romans). Throughout, he is constantly differentiating between Israelis that are blind and Israelis that are elect.
• One also has to ignore the whole context and setting of Paul’s comments “all Israel shall be saved.” He uses the phrase immediately after demonstrating that the elect Israeli good olive only holds those Jews that are of the household of “faith.”
• As Paul expands his argument on the salvation of his own kinsmen, and tells us that all Israel shall be saved, he does it within the vital context of a faithful believing remnant of Israelis. Many fail to see that Paul has already established that the believing element within the overall physical nation of Israel is “a remnant.”
• Some also seem to overlook Paul’s supporting evidence from the Old Testament Scripture (in Isaiah 59:20) that shows that the people in view are a spiritual segment of the overall whole who put their faith in Christ and repent of their sin.

Jer 31 says all Israel shall be saved.

Romans 11 says all Israel shall be saved.

Modern Christians say, all does not mean all, but a few.

Ick!

 

[Truther]

Are you saying this relates to your supposed future millennium?

Absolutely.

Jerusalem will be safely inhabited for the first time in history during the 1000 years.

Cool, huh?

 

[Truther]

Not so. All you have is your evasive fly-by soundbites.

Call them Amil gut punches.

 

[Truther]

Do you not have the ability to address the multiple contradictions in your heresy? You attempt to explain away New Testament truth with your misunderstanding of the Old Testament. That sums up your theology. It lies in pieces tonight. Your rejection of the new covenant is damning!

Does this irk you?...


27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:...

 

[Truther]

Falser: you fail to address multiple arguments in multiple posts. That is because you are out of your depth on this forum. Lazy biblical study produces this. You cannot address it because it exposes what you have been taught. Your one-liners are the sum total of your research. That is because for you to embrace the Word would be for you to abandon your theology.

How does a person argue with Amil imaginations.

Try producing a verse or two that says God dumped them and made His covenant with you as you were just as wretched as they are.

I think Christians look down their noses at these foks a bit too much...


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved....


Watch it, when Jesus returns, the fullness of the gentiles is finally come in.

Then you will be the point of contention for speaking against them.

Amils are snoots towards sinners of Israel.

 

[covenantee]

Paul was saying that all the saved will be saved?

Won't the saved be saved from hell?

 

[Truther]

He is talking about the election. Hello! There are 2 groups of Israeli. You only see one. That is how deceived you are by your teachers.

I see. It says this?...


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to (LOST) Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all (SAVED)Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them(SAVED ISRAEL), when I shall take away their(SAVED ISRAEL) sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they(LOST ISRAEL) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they(SAVED ISRAEL) are beloved for the father's sakes.

They= lost/saved/saved/saved/lost/saved Israel in the passage?


LOL

 

[Truther]

The No. 1 thing we learn about you on this topic is your avoidance and your heresy. You habitually falsify the Word - thus you are a Falser.

Heresy!

LOL

Get real.

 

[Truther]

Won't the saved be saved from hell?

Are we saved from hell once or twice?

 

[Truther]

Do you think Mark 16:16 says he that is saved shall be saved again?

 

[covenantee]

Are we saved from hell once or twice?

First saved from sin, then saved from hell.

How many times is that?

 

[Truther]

First saved from sin, then saved from hell.

How many times is that?

Are we still going to hell after our sins are remitted?

I thought remission of sins via baptism saves us from hell?...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Truther]

Or do you think this?...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved(BUT NOT FROM HELL); but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[covenantee]

Are we still going to hell after our sins are remitted?

I thought remission of sins via baptism saves us from hell?...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Can't be saved from hell if not first saved from sin.

 

[WPM]

Heresy!

LOL

Get real.

You are trying to supersede the new covenant with a new new covenant and a fresh cross. This is utter folly. It is blasphemy and heresy rolled into one. Is the cross not enough for you. Is Christ not enough? Is His blood not enough?

 

[Truth7t7]

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Onnce Again, Your claim of "National Israel" is False

Only the remnant will be saved by God's forekowledge and election, National Israel is blinded

Romans 11:2-8KJV
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

 

[rwb]

I see. It says this?...


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to (LOST) Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all (SAVED)Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them(SAVED ISRAEL), when I shall take away their(SAVED ISRAEL) sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they(LOST ISRAEL) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they(SAVED ISRAEL) are beloved for the father's sakes.

They= lost/saved/saved/saved/lost/saved Israel in the passage?


LOL

"All Israel" saved is NOT an ethnic people, but Israel of God! This is proven by the FACT that Gentiles of faith are grafted into the same good olive tree with Israel of faith. That confirms what Paul has said in Galatians. Israel of God is a people of faith from every nation, tribe, kindred and tongue, and is how "all Israel shall be saved". Israel of God that shall ALL be saved are both those of circumcision (faithful Jews), as well as those of uncircumcision (faithful Gentiles).

Galatians 6:15-16 (KJV) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[WPM]

Or do you think this?...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved(BUT NOT FROM HELL); but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The vital word differentiating salvation from no salvation is believing. Anyway, this is talking about spiritual baptism into Christ upon salvation, not your invented extra-biblical United Pentecostal false baptismal regeneration salvation. Salvation has always been by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Even the Old Testament saints looked forward by faith to the Messiah for their hope of salvation. The thief on the cross would not want to paradise according to your theories.

 

[rwb]

Are we still going to hell after our sins are remitted?

I thought remission of sins via baptism saves us from hell?...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

All this is saying is that saying we believe will not save us if we have not received baptism of the Holy Spirit. Even the devils believe and tremble.

James 2:19 (KJV) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Matthew 3:11 (KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

[WPM]

Are we still going to hell after our sins are remitted?

I thought remission of sins via baptism saves us from hell?...

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Not water baptism, spiritual baptism into Christ, something you have not been taught about in your United Pentecostal Church.