22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

The Word of God In Heaven IN Gods Mouth came forth out from Gods Mouth and donned A Body God Prepared By God, For Men TO See , and God Sent that Body To Earth to a Virgin womb.
When that Body was revealed to the World….
What DID God via His holy Angel say to Call that Body?

Messiah? No. Christ? No. Son of God? No. Lord? No. God? No.
God said call Him: Jesus, Son of man.

What DID men on Earth SEE? The Likeness of a Jewish man….Period.

What will men ON Earth SEE when Jesus Returns? The same which men SAW before…The likeness of a Jewish man.

The difference is The First time JESUS was revealed ON Earth , He came as a Servant, WITHOUT His REPUTATION!

When Jesus Returns He Does NOT come as a Servant, and He DOES come WITH His REPUTATION!

And in-between His First appearance ON Earth and His Next appearance He was revealed having MANY Titles, for particular Purposes.
Rabbi, Teacher, Word of God, Lord, Son of God, Lamb, Savior, Holy, Power, Spirit, Seed, Wisdom, on and on….

You Knowing all those things is one thing …
You not understanding the Role of EACH is apparent.

You retort with some nonsense of a man dividing Jesus ….when IT iS God who established and Revealed the Titles and Purpose of each Role.

The Lord Jesus IN Heaven…The Lord Descending to the Clouds, while the Lamb is IN Heaven opening the Seals, then the Lamb on Earth on Mt Sion with 144,000 and Tribesmen from JERUSALEM, then The Son of Man Seen by all sitting on a white Cloud in the air, Then Christ claiming His Kingdom and Throne on Earth….

Different Titles fulfilling different roles…that you do not recognize…nor comprehend.

I think you are eating too much pizza before you go to bed at night. Honestly! LOL.

 

[Taken]

I think you are eating too much pizza before you go to bed at night. Honestly! LOL.

I think you read Scripture according to what you Know, without paying attention to what Scripture is Actually Saying, thus miss the ability to understand, according to Gods Order and Way.
And if you think eating pizza is a detriment to understanding… wow.

 

[WPM]

I think you read Scripture according to what you Know, without paying attention to what Scripture is Actually Saying, thus miss the ability to understand, according to Gods Order and Way.
And if you think eating pizza is a detriment to understanding… wow.

You don't get it do you?

 

[Taken]

You don't get it do you?

Explicitly.

 

[WPM]

Explicitly.

Thanks for agreeing. There might be hope if you are seeing your error.

 

[Taken]

Thanks for agreeing. There might be hope if you are seeing your error.

Your blended comment /question was explicitly acknowledge….
I did not agree with your Comment portion.
I did not answer your Question portion.

 

[WPM]

Your blended comment /question was explicitly acknowledge….
I did not agree with your Comment portion.
I did not answer your Question portion.

Address the Op (if you can) or stop derailing.

 

[WPM]

Ok, so Premils have had no direct rebuttal to No. 1. Let's go to No. 2.

(2) Premil hangs its doctrine on a very precarious frayed thread: that of Revelation 20 following Revelation 19 chronologically in time. To hold this, it has to dismiss the different recaps (or different camera views pertaining to the intra-Advent period) that exist throughout the book of Revelation, divorce it from repeated Scripture on this matter and also explain away the clear and explicit climactic detail that pertains to Revelation 19. Premil is dependent upon the dubious premise that Revelation 20 is chronological to Revelation 19. That is it! Disprove that and Premil falls apart.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t put any limit on Christs Kingdom!
God Established the ORDER and WAY of His Earthly Kingdom..

* Gods Kingdom First In Spiritual and Physical Heaven.
* Gods Kingdom Next in (Particular) Spiritual Mankind.
* Christs Kingdom Next (for 1,000 years) in (Particular) Mankind AND in (Particular) Land Mass ON Earth.
* Lord God Almighty’s Kingdom Lastly and Eternally With ONLY His Faithful Spiritual Holy angels and Holy Spiritual Mankind is the Entirety of the new Heavens and new Earth.

Can you show me anywhere in the New Testament where this supposed 1,000 year kingdom on earth is referenced?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Pretty PLAIN…
Christ Jesus reigning for 1,000 years is PLAINLY SAID. That is not an assumption.
That is a Scriptural FACT. Period.

That God keeps His promises to "a thousand generations" is also PLAINLY SAID in scripture. Does that mean His promises expire after a literal thousand generations or is the word "thousand" used figuratively there?

That God owns the cattle "on a thousand hills" is also PLAINLY SAID in scripture (Psalm 50:10). Does that mean God only owns the cattle on a thousand hills and doesn't own the cattle on the rest of the hills? Or is the word "thousand" used figuratively there?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am ignoring your CARNAL NONSENSE, to which you WANT a CARNAL UNDERSTANDING regarding SPIRITUAL things…. Irrelevant, fruitless and a fail.

The ISSUE IS: you do not believe Scripture regarding a 1,000 year reign.

This is very ironic. It is because of your CARNAL way of looking at things that you ASSUME that the 1,000 year reign is a literal one thousand years on earth. I don't see anything SPIRITUAL about the way you interpret scripture. You interpret it no differently than you'd interpret a news article.

The ISSUE IS: you demand others Scriptures to verify what REV 20 repeatedly says in multiple verses.

Why is that an ISSUE for you? Do you not care if your interpretation of Revelation 20 lines up with other scripture or not?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Mankind was created out of his own habitat;
Which is common knowledge, Mankind’s Habitat IS: The Earth!
Mankind will always Exist in his own Habitat.

Why are you continuing to not answer my question? Is that because you don't have an answer? Once again, why will we be meeting Jesus "in the air" if we're just going to immediately go back down to the earth afterwards? There would have to be some reason for that. Do you even have a guess? Or do you think there is no reason for that?

Punishments are the results of Negative Judgements….
The 7 Seals opened one by one are Negative Judgements which result in Negative Punishments.
The 7 Trumps are signals of Warnings, of what Judgement Shall Occur. A man can Heed The Warning To not suffer the punishment, or Ignore the Warning and Suffer the Punishment.
The 7 Vials are Greater Punishments mixed with Hods Vengeance upon men who NOT ONLY rejected The Lord God, But ALSO persecuted other men Because the other men Believed IN and Worshiped the Lord God.

You ignore the lessor warnings and judgements and punishments, giving a man opportunity to change his ways….and jump right into “a final Sentencing”.

I don't ignore those things. But, they are not relevant to the discussion. The point I'm making is that there is only one judgment day in terms of final sentencing, yet you believe in two such judgment days (one on the day Christ returns and one 1,000+ years later).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you study Scripture and PAY ATTENTION to the specific LANGUAGE….

Jesus raised men from the DEAD.
…EXAMPLE; Lazarus
Men appealed to God to raise mortals from the DEAD.
…EXAMPLE; Elijah (1 Kings Chapter 17)

* The Lord Jesus SHALL descend FROM Heaven TO the CLOUDS.
* The Archangel (servant of the Lord) shall sound A TRUMPET (signal).
* WHO will HEAR the TRUMPET, IS men ON EARTH (IN CHRIST), bodily dead in their graves, and bodily alive in their flesh.
* THEY are being SIGNALED that they are going to BE RISEN UP TO the CLOUDS, to MEET their Lord IN THE AIR.
* FROM that day forward, FOREVER they will be IN the Presence of their Lord.
* THEY remain IN the CLOUDS WITH their Lord, TO THE DAY, their Lord RETURNS TO THE EARTH, (and HIS PEOPLE WITH HIM.) His People RISEN UP in their Glorified Bodys, THEIR saved soul back in their glorified bodys, THEIR born again spirit back in their glorified body’s (THEY CALLED: WHOLE, CALLED: Christ’s Church, CALLED: saints)……and WITH Jesus WHEN He returns and CLAIMS His Kingdom, and THRONE. He being KING of kings. Mortals and saints occupying the Earth for 1,000 years.

The Lord Jesus RAISES UP those “IN” Christ.
1 Thes 4: 1-17

AFTER the millennial reign God RAISES UP those “IN” Jesus. (Aka called the First Resurrection)
1 Thes 4: 14

I presume you do not KNOW the difference between those “IN” Christ and those “IN” Jesus.

There is no difference. This is something you are making up. This is what people do (twist scripture) to keep their doctrine afloat rather than just accepting what scripture teaches.

I presume you do not KNOW the FIRST resurrection, applies to any and all (ie MASS) IN BELIEF, that were not raised up beforehand.

What are you talking about here? I'll tell you if I know about this if you explain what you are talking about.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In Christ scripture reveals they are called up to the Lord, by the Lord. (1 Thes 4:16-17)

In Jesus scripture reveals they Raised up by God. (1 Thes 4:14)

Further scriptures reveal the difference between IN Christ and IN Jesus.

This is pure nonsense. You are just making things up as you go because you realize that you can't support your doctrine without making nonsense up like this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ever noticed you are the one who is supposed to hear and search the Scriptures yourself…which is call Nobel.

Ever notice I showed you IN Scripture, IN Jesus and IN Christ and you bothered not to read, study, compare, to see the difference?

LOL. Why should he bother wasting his time to study something that is so obviously complete nonsense that you made up in your imagination? You should be embarrassed for coming up with this ridiculous nonsense that tries to differentiate between being in Jesus and in Christ (Jesus is Christ. Hello? Give us a break.). You can't possibly come up with something any more ludicrous than this.

 

[rwb]

Pretty PLAIN…
Christ Jesus reigning for 1,000 years is PLAINLY SAID. That is not an assumption.
That is a Scriptural FACT. Period.

That is not what John plainly states! He says nothing about Christ reigning for 1,000 years.

John writes that martyred saints, DEAD yet ALIVE lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. You're taking the time when saints lived and reigned with Christ and concluding that Christ Jesus reigns for 1,000 literal years on this earth. You not only abuse the verse, but also put time restraints on the reign of Christ which Scripture says He reigns FOREVER.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

You want this to say physically resurrected saints shall live and reign with Christ for a literal ONE thousand years on this earth after Christ comes again. That's what we call reading one's doctrine into the text.

 

[rwb]

Agreed. I am all in regarding the 1000 year reign of Christ in the future.

It appears that you also attempt to re-write verses of Scripture to fit your doctrine! John never says Christ shall reign on this earth for one thousand years. John says the martyred souls he sees alive lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But John does NOT say Christ shall reign with them for one thousand years. John would not be so foolish since he understands that Christ reigns FOREVER!

 

[rwb]

When the WORD SAYS IN Jesus, IN Christ, Christ reigns for 1,000 years, 144,000 are with a Lamb and YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT……Why would you remotely believe YOU would SPIRITUALLY UNDERSTAND WHY those WORDS ARE expressly Stated?

YOU Don’t….and your only recourse IS to badmouth the one who DOES BELIEVE Gods Stated Word.

ANY CLUE what JUDGEMENTS Scripture teaches APPLIES TO a man who “persecutes” a man who trusts and believes Gods Word…..?

I can disagree with you….BUT I DO NOT badmouth you FOR YOUR BELIEFS….
And YOU can disagree with me…..AND YOUR course of action is to BADMOUTH, whom you disagree with….

You keep repeating the same error! John NEVER writes Christ reigns for 1,000 years. It is the martyred saints who in life lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. It does not say Christ reigns for 1,000 years! How could these martyred saints have lived and reigned then died in this TIME John writes a thousand years, if this TIME shall not be until Christ returns?

Before arguing these saints will be physically resurrected when Christ comes and then live and reign with Christ on earth for one thousand years, REMEMBER there will be no physical/bodily resurrection from the graves until the seventh angel sounds the hour coming when all who are in the graves shall be physically/bodily resurrected.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[Taken]

Can you show me anywhere in the New Testament where this supposed 1,000 year kingdom on earth is referenced?

Rev 20

 

[Taken]

That God keeps His promises to "a thousand generations" is also PLAINLY SAID in scripture. Does that mean His promises expire after a literal thousand generations or is the word "thousand" used figuratively there?

No.

That God owns the cattle "on a thousand hills" is also PLAINLY SAID in scripture (Psalm 50:10). Does that mean God only

Does Scripture say “ONLY”?

Or is the word "thousand" used figuratively there?

No.