`ye,` are the people of Israel as there was NO Body of Christ or even knowledge of such.
22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
- Thread starter WPM
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
`ye,` are the people of Israel as there was NO Body of Christ or even knowledge of such.
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 11,973
- 3,759
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Your Claim Is "False"
The church and its order existed when Jesus walked the earth, perhaps your pre-determibed bias is holding you back from scriptural truth
Jesus Christ below taught and established Church order, will you continue to teach otherwise?
(The Words Of Jesus Christ)
Matthew 18:15-17KJV
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Last edited:
RLT63
Well-Known Member
You aren’t using your brain because of your strong desire to defend your position. I don’t know any way to talk with someone when they do that. I mean…there IS at least precedent for there being a gap of time we aren’t informed of between one verse and another (or even in one verse/sentence”.) The precedent is where Jesus read from Isaiah and abruptly stopped. Has there been a 2000 year gap of time between where He stopped and Gods vengeance? Yes, of course there has been. The next part of the verse, the day of Gods vengeance, has not happened yet and it’s been 2000 years.
If you acknowledged the precedent, it would be one thing. You could say, yes, I see there is precedent, however, it should not be applied in this or that instance because thus and thus. But when you put your fingers in your ears and insist a precedent isn’t there, it just produces a puzzlement in me that doesn’t even know how to converse with you.
Some similarly do this with a thousand years as a day and a day as a thousand years is as just days to God, saying therefore a thousand years means a long time. And there’s a similar example/precedent with the man working another 7 years to get the bride he really wanted. It says that because of his love for the woman, the 7 years seemed as only days to him. But we don’t then argue that the man literally only worked a few days for the second wife. We know he worked 7 years. We don’t do away with the 7 years. I mean, there is even more precedent for days to years in the Bible. The exodus - 40 days the spies were in the promised land and God punishing the Israelites one year for every one of those days. And the man told to lay on his side for 390 days plus 40 days to show that their punishment would be a year for every day. And now I’m just rambling.
If you defend your position by saying something isn’t there that quite obviously is there, how can any man converse with you when you do that? I mean…it’s like Biden saying there is no inflation and no problem at the border…he is denying something that is there isn’t there. Can anyone talk with someone who does that…?
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 11,973
- 3,759
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
70 Consecutive Future Weeks
Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four Hundred Ninety Years)
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.
When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
You would have to write that out more as for a child to grasp it for me to understand what you’re saying. I got too lost as to what you were saying. The only thing in my mind is this - if I were to agree to pay you $500 after you worked for me for 7 days and you died after only three days, as per the contract, I don’t have to pay you since the contract was cut off. I can’t tell you why that is the thing in my mind because I got too confused reading but…that’s what’s there in my head.
mmm….yeah, I kind of do. The thing that comes to my mind concerning it is…Babylon, commercial Babylon, falling and collapsing in one hour. I do kind of see it as a possibility. I mean, a lot of stuff goes into commercial collapse, over time, but…it’s sort of like holding tremendous credit card debt for a long period of time, years and years, but when the point comes where you can no longer maintain it, your house of cards collapses utterly, all at once.
So, where does it mention a future millennium there and why would they need "sin offerings in the future" that would "be symbolic of the sacrifice Jesus made" when Jesus is there in person and He is the final offering for sin?
When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.
Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”
Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”
Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”
Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”
Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”
There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."
Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”
1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”
Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”
Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.
Hang around for what? Wholesale immediate destruction - which is what happened in Noah's day and in Sodom after the elect were rescued?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
And? Now, will you address the question and stop avoiding the biblical evidence i presented that forbids your beliefs?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 11,973
- 3,759
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
You don't believe in the future human man seen below, please give your explanation?
Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ
The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below
Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming
Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming
2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming
Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
LOL. Not true!
Do you believe these sin offerings will make atonement for the priests and the altar in your future millennium?
Do you believe these sin offerings will reconcile the house of Israel in your future millennium?
Do you believe these sin offerings will sanctify the house of Israel in your future millennium?
I already did, and you have no answer to it.
1. The beast has been around for over 2000 years (Revelation 17:8, Revelation 17:11-13, 1 John 2:18-23, 1 John 4:1-3, 5-6, 2 John 1:7, and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-13). No man has lived that long on earth. Only a wicked spirit or an evil empire could possibly fulfil that portrayal.
2. How can a literal human being be literally “in them that perish” (2 Thessalonians 2:10)? This would suggest him being in every single unsaved person. Only a spirit can do that.
3. The beast carries the allegiance of all the non-elect. No single human being has or ever or will possess that wholesale allegiance. Only a broader worldly spirit enjoys all the loyalty of the wicked.
4. There is nowhere in Scripture that shows human beings in the abyss (Luke 8:31, Romans 10:7, Revelation 9:1, 2, 11, 11:7, 17:8, and 20:1, 3). Any time it is mentioned, it is shown to be the exclusive abode of Satan and his demons.
5. What man possesses 7 heads? These describe 7 wicked kingdoms in history with 7 kings ruling over them. No man can possibly satisfy that.
6. According to the original Greek, and in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.”
7. Finally, what human being in history lives in, and rises up out of, the sea at the end? Such an idea is non-sensical.
I don’t know. Maybe. Treaties are put in place all the time that collapse. Is it completely impossible that things get bad enough that men make a treaty and something occurs to void the treaty an hour after they sit at a table and sign it? Of course it’s not impossible. The treaty of Hong Canal was signed, the one dude had barely turned his armies, then the other dude immediately attacked their rear. Very, very short lived treaty. They’re always signing short lived treaties in the Middle East area. Sign it and a few days or weeks later, it’s broken.
So if you’re amazed at a treaty being broken in one hour because of some sort of catastrophe, well…I’m not so amazed at that. I wouldn’t think like you that it’s a completely impossible and preposterous thing. And highly improbable, to me, is not the same thing as impossible. It was highly improbable that grandmas handmade cookie jar would ever break since I put it high on a top shelf of a bookcase that you would need a step stool to even reach. But years ago we had an earthquake in Maryland, it shook a few inches right off the shelf, fell to the ground and broke.
This goes back to what I was saying earlier about all prophecy HAVING to always be non literal to some, having to be all one way. It doesn’t work and move all one way. In the bible, there’s an odd place where a serpent DOESNT represent satan. There’s a dream where Jesus is a ladder. There’s a place where leaven DOESNT mean the teaching of men.
Last edited:
Truth7t7
Well-Known Member
- Jan 2, 2014
- 11,973
- 3,759
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Your claim I have no answer is laughable, your claims are the same, fake it till ya make it in denial
Yes you have presented this before around the post (4970) area Oct 19th, and I gave response to all, a sample of my previous responses seen below, that destroys your fake claims
Yes you deny a future literal human man as described by Daniel, Paul, and John, deception IMO
Your Claims Are Silenced "Crickets"!
(#6 )
Your claim is false, it's the number of "A Man"
Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18
Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.
Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.
Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
(#7)
"Sea" in the Revelation represents multitudes of people, The Beast rises out of these multitudes of people
Your claim in trying to make "Sea" literal oceans of water is laughable, just showing how far you will go to prop up your self guided interpretations
Revelation 17:15KJV
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Last edited:
Where does it say that there will be a treaty for "one hour"? Or adding onto Scripture. I think you're trying to force some faulty Pretrib teaching that you have been influenced by in the past into the sacred text. It is actually talking about the duration of the the rule of the 10 kings.
Rev 17:12: "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."
If you would actually take the time to study the original text you would realize that the word "a" is not in the original Greek. Futurists use this verse as evidence that the beast is actually a human being. But what they overlook is that in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.” There is no “a” in the original Greek. It was added by the translators, most of whom believed the Pope was thee antichrist. The Greek simply reads: gár (for) esti (it is) arithmós (number) anthrōpos (man) kai (and) hautou (his) arithmós (number) chi xi sigma (666).
Six is the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
