22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[covenantee]

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

"Will be".

Dispensatanism's (h/t WPM) most indispensable two words.

I've presented indisputable evidence.

You've presented nothing but private hallucination.

Dispensatanism's trademark.

And a complete waste of bytes.

Time for a new Reformation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Think about what the beast represents. Revelation 13:8 indicates that literally all whose names are not in the book of life worship the beast. Do you understand how nonsensical it is to think that literally every unbeliever would one day worship one man? That's impossible and unreasonable to think that literally every unbeliever would worship one person.

But, what is it that every unbeliever, whose names are not written in the book of life, does worship? According to scripture, it is this evil world and its anti-Christian ways.

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

What I'm doing here is interpreting scripture with scripture and I know you believe in that approach. So, think about it.

John said the beast "was, and is not and shall ascend from the bottomless pit " in Revelation 17:8. You can't just ignore that. What he meant by that is that the beast was unrestrained in the past before he wrote the book, was restrained at the time he was writing the book and will again be unrestrained at some point in the future. Just like Satan.

The beast is the evil world that hates Christians and that Satan influences to do his bidding. You could think of it as Satan's kingdom as well. It has taken different forms over the years including the evil world empires of the past like the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman empires. Look at Daniel 7:23 where a beast is described as a kingdom. In Old Testament times Satan was able to do use the world and its governments and systems to do his bidding unrestrained. Satan being unrestained and the beast being unrestrained go hand in hand. But, in New Testament times Satan and his beast (this evil world) has been bound and restrained from keeping the world in spiritual darkness like in Old Testament times. But, there will be a little season in the future when Satan and the beast are loosed and are unrestrained again before Jesus comes.

(The Beast) Will be a literal human man

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Randy Kluth]

And you responded saying you gave Revelation 20, but what I was saying was that you didn't offer any scripture to support your interpretation of Revelation 20. So, I obviously wasn't saying you didn't use any scripture at all, even including Revelation 20. I don't need to apologize for anything. A vast majority of your posts are filled with your own words. You rarely quote scripture in support of your opinions.

This is a diversion. Anybody can argue over Scriptures. You know the Scriptures well enough to know where I'm coming from when I mention Abraham's promises, Gen 12 and 17. And no, I wasn't just referencing Rev 20. That in itself is a Scripture reference. I support Rev 20 with the Millennial Day theory that is based on a year with the Lord is as a thousand years. I based my view of the Messianic Kingdom on many passages from the Prophets that declare Messiah's Kingdom. All of this is Scripture. You just want to argue.

That's enough to just say that? Can't you show how exactly it shows that? What about Galatians 3:16-29? Do you take scripture like that into account when determining what the fulfillment of God's promises to Abraham entail?

As I said, you just want to argue Scriptures. You said I don't provide Scripture references for my positions. This is obviously false since now you want to argue those Scripture references.

Get off of your argumentative spirit, and I'll tell you what I believe about Abraham's promises. But my goal is not to argue--just to explain where I get my beliefs from.

Where do any of these prophecies indicate that they're talking about a time period after the return of Christ, though? That's really what I'm getting at. You don't seem to have any scripture which clearly talks about a time period that will occur after Christ's return that would correlate with the thousand years referenced in Revelation 20.

Well, that's different from saying I don't provide any Scriptures. I just don't provide Scriptures constantly.

The Prophets spoke of the Messianic Kingdom as being a time of peace among nations, a time when the knowledge of the Lord will flourish across the entire world. That hasn't happened. Christ's spiritual Kingdom in the heavens isn't here on the earth.

Just vaguely referencing referencing Genesis 12-17 without showing exactly how you think that scripture supports your view does not qualify as producing scriptures to support your view in my book.

Then you're too ignorant of the subject to discuss it. It is critical to understand Gen 12-17. The Abrahamic promises are the basis for virtually the entire Bible!

Do you understand that most Jews are not Christians? Why would you take their word for anything when it comes to interpreting scripture accurately? That makes no sense.

I'm not taking the word of just any Jews. I'm taking the word of the Hebrew Prophets, which I call the "Jewish Hope." This is Scripture!

How are you coming to the conclusion you stated in your last sentence here? Jesus is reigning now and we are in His kingdom now, so why do you put everything off until after He returns?

Jesus is reigning in the heavens, but he is not reigning on the earth--not in the sense of establishing his Kingdom here. That takes place at the 2nd Coming.

You're not getting it. The ones who do not obtain the age to come are the ones who will be cast "into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" when Christ returns. It's right there in Matthew 25:31-46.

No, it just says that after the 2nd Coming he will gather all nations. It doesn't say when precisely this happens, whether it is something that takes place throughout the Millennium or only at the beginning of the Millennium. But it does *not* happen at the 2nd Coming, because gathering the nations *follows* the 2nd Coming. So it's you who doesn't get it.

Nations of faith? There's no such thing.

You're extremely ignorant. There have been many nations of faith, beginning with the Christian Roman Empire. France, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Russia, and even the U.S. have been declared to be nations of faith. Your denial goes against all of the history books, so don't expect me to buy into your errors.

Paul clearly taught that it is Christ Himself and individuals who belong to Christ who are Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29).

Nations consist of individuals. Christian nations include many individual Christians. Some will fall away, and some will remain. They are still Christian nations until they completely turn away from their commitment. That's what Israel did, and that's what many Christian nations today are doing.

We can talk later....

 

[Truth7t7]

They don't know! That is because it is not biblical. It is an invented circus that has no home, apart from the hearts and minds of Premillennialists.

Same applies to "Partial Preterist" that are in denial of a future literal human man as seen below, with claims Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD has been fulfilled, "False"!

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hey were getting somewhere!

Good grief. I had already told you the same things several times before and you're just now understanding what I believe? Try to read my posts more carefully from now on and then it might not take you so long to figure out what I actually believe.

Yes you believe and teach Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD and Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation have been "Fulfilled" this alone puts you in the "Partial Preterist" Camp, Fact, Fact, Fact!

You can roll on the floor and kick your feet all you want claiming your not a "Partial Preterist" You Are

Apparently, you define a partial preterist as someone who believes any prophecy was fulfilled in the past. You are also a partial preterist then because you also believe there are prophecies that have been fulfilled in the past. You do believe the prophecies about the first coming of Christ were fulfilled, right? I'm pretty sure you believe that (I'm kidding - of course you do).

If you believed all of Matthew 24 was fulfilled you would be "Full Preterist"

No, there are some partial preterists who believe that as well. You are so ignorant about what others believe. Educate yourself so that you stop making a fool of yourself.

The events of Matthew 24:15 to 24:31 are "Future Unfulfilled" I'm "Futurist" in my Eschatology

Good for you. I'm neither a futurist nor a preterist in the way those terms are normally defined. I guess in your mind nothing has ever happened in the past that was prophesied in scripture. Oh wait, it has, as even you understand. So, you are also a partial preterist according to your very general definition of the term.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This is a diversion. Anybody can argue over Scriptures. You know the Scriptures well enough to know where I'm coming from when I mention Abraham's promises, Gen 12 and 17. And no, I wasn't just referencing Rev 20.

I don't want to have to guess as to how exactly you think Genesis 12-17 supports your view. Is it too much trouble for you to quote scripture and highlight the parts that you think support your view?

That in itself is a Scripture reference. I support Rev 20 with the Millennial Day theory that is based on a year with the Lord is as a thousand years.

You mean a day is as a thousand years (you said "year")? That has absolutely nothing to do with Revelation 20. It says a day IS AS a thousand years to the Lord, not that a day EQUALS a thousand years to the Lord. What that means is that one day and a thousand years are no different to the Lord. Why? Because He created time and exists outside of time.

A day is as a million years to the Lord. No amount of time has any effect on Him. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 20. If you look at the context of 2 Peter 3:8 by reading verse 9 you can see that what Peter was pointing out is that the Lord is not being slow in fulfilling the promise of His second coming. No matter how long it takes for Him to come no one can say He's being slow because time has no affect whatsoever on Him.

As I said, you just want to argue Scriptures. You said I don't provide Scripture references for my positions. This is obviously false since now you want to argue those Scripture references.

Get off of your argumentative spirit, and I'll tell you what I believe about Abraham's promises. But my goal is not to argue--just to explain where I get my beliefs from.

You're trying to defend your beliefs. That requires arguments or debate. Why do you act as if arguing (discussing, debating, whatever you want to call it) is a bad thing? It's not. You can't expect to share you beliefs on a forum like this without those beliefs being challenged by those who disagree with you.

Well, that's different from saying I don't provide any Scriptures. I just don't provide Scriptures constantly.

You rarely provide scriptures. You seem to think that your words are on the same level as the words in scripture. That is obviously not the case.

The Prophets spoke of the Messianic Kingdom as being a time of peace among nations, a time when the knowledge of the Lord will flourish across the entire world. That hasn't happened. Christ's spiritual Kingdom in the heavens isn't here on the earth.

His spiritual kingdom isn't here on the earth? Why did Paul say that we have been brought into His kingdom then?

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Do you deny what Paul taught here? Do you deny that you are in Christ's kingdom now?

Do you understand that He dwells spiritually within us?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

So, He dwells in us. That means His kingdom is manifested through us spiritually and we are on the earth. So, I completely disagree with you that His spiritual kingdom is not on the earth. It most certainly is!

Then you're too ignorant of the subject to discuss it. It is critical to understand Gen 12-17. The Abrahamic promises are the basis for virtually the entire Bible!

This is unbelievably weak. You are unable to make a coherent argument to back up your beliefs, so you just say I'm too ignorant to discuss it. Give me a break. Ridiculous!

I'm not taking the word of just any Jews. I'm taking the word of the Hebrew Prophets, which I call the "Jewish Hope." This is Scripture!

What scripture are you talking about? Show me. I'm not just going to take your word for it. Show me what you're talking about exactly. Back up your claims with scripture. Don't tell me they said this or that without showing me where. How can I know exactly how you come to your conclusions if you don't show me?

Jesus is reigning in the heavens, but he is not reigning on the earth--not in the sense of establishing his Kingdom here. That takes place at the 2nd Coming.

He said His kingdom does not come with observation (Luke 17:20). So, why do you contradict that by saying that His kingdom will come with observation? It won't come with observation until He returns and delivers the kingdom to the Father (1 Cor 15:22-24).

No, it just says that after the 2nd Coming he will gather all nations. It doesn't say when precisely this happens, whether it is something that takes place throughout the Millennium or only at the beginning of the Millennium.

Come on. Do you expect to be taken seriously with this kind of response? It most certainly does say when it happens. It will happen when He comes with His angels. When will He come with His angels? At His return, obviously. Would you try to say that you can't tell the timing of Matthew 24:30-31 or 2 Thess 1:7-8 which also talk about Him coming with His angels? Of course you wouldn't. You're only doing that now because of doctrinal bias.

But it does *not* happen at the 2nd Coming, because gathering the nations *follows* the 2nd Coming. So it's you who doesn't get it.

You are denying the obvious here. Matthew 25:31-46 very specifically indicates that all people will be gathered before Him when He comes with His angels. If it wasn't for doctrinal bias you wouldn't even dream of denying that Matthew 25:31-46 is portraying something that will happen when He returns.

You're extremely ignorant. There have been many nations of faith, beginning with the Christian Roman Empire. France, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Russia, and even the U.S. have been declared to be nations of faith. Your denial goes against all of the history books, so don't expect me to buy into your errors.

This illustrates your problem. Your doctrine is based on fallible history books instead of scripture. You have your own definitions for things that are not found anywhere in scripture. I can't take that seriously. Your view is severely lacking in scriptural support. I'd much rather be ignorant of faulty history books than of scripture like you are.

Nations consist of individuals. Christian nations include many individual Christians. Some will fall away, and some will remain. They are still Christian nations until they completely turn away from their commitment. That's what Israel did, and that's what many Christian nations today are doing.

Show me the scripture which defines "Christian nations" the way you are doing. Good luck. Your extra-biblical beliefs are on shaky ground.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good grief. I had already told you the same things several times before and you're just now understanding what I believe? Try to read my posts more carefully from now on and then it might not take you so long to figure out what I actually believe.

Apparently, you define a partial preterist as someone who believes any prophecy was fulfilled in the past. You are also a partial preterist then because you also believe there are prophecies that have been fulfilled in the past. You do believe the prophecies about the first coming of Christ were fulfilled, right? I'm pretty sure you believe that (I'm kidding - of course you do).

No, there are some partial preterists who believe that as well. You are so ignorant about what others believe. Educate yourself so that you stop making a fool of yourself.

Good for you. I'm neither a futurist nor a preterist in the way those terms are normally defined. I guess in your mind nothing has ever happened in the past that was prophesied in scripture. Oh wait, it has, as even you understand. So, you are also a partial preterist according to your very general definition of the term.

You are "Partial Preterist" in your eschatology as you have been shown several times

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Same applies to "Partial Preterist" that are in denial of a future literal human man as seen below, with claims Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD has been fulfilled, "False"!

Do you believe the following is not yet fulfilled (not including the times of the Gentiles)?

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are "Partial Preterist" in your eschatology as you have been shown several times

Okay, it's very clear now. I don't have to wonder anymore. You are a robot. Your repetitive auto responses give you away.

 

[Truth7t7]

Do you believe the following is not yet fulfilled (not including the times of the Gentiles)?

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Future events that surround the future AOD and future 3.5 year tribulation

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your human reason is silenced in scriptural truth below

The Beast will have the unsaved world's allegiance, and he will be a individual human man as scripture teaches in Revelation chapter 13 and 19 as seen below, described by personal pronouns He, His, Him, that will be cast living into the lake of fire as seen in Revelation 19:20

Revelation 13:4-8KJV
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The word translated as "him" there can also mean "it" and is translated as "it" in other translations, so you're not proving anything here.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Uh oh. This describes the fourth beast as a kingdom. What do you make of this? How does this line up with your insistence that a prophetic beast refers to a man?

How do you interpret this verse:

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

What does it mean when it says the beast "was"? What does it mean when it says the beast "is not"? It says the beast "shall ascend out of the bottomless pit" in the future which implies that the beast is in the bottomless pit now. So, what man is currently in the bottomless pit and will come out of it in the future?

If you want to be taken seriously, then please address these questions instead of giving your normal repetitive auto response.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Future events that surround the future AOD and future 3.5 year tribulation

Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

What temple is this verse referring to? The physical temple that was standing at that time, right? That's obvious. In response to the disciples speaking highly of the temple, Jesus said this:

Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Jesus referenced the "things which ye behold". He was obviously referring to the temple and its "goodly stones and gifts" that the disciples talked about. He then said a time was coming when those things would be destroyed.

After Jesus said that the disciples asked Him about what He said.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

When they asked "when shall these things be" they were asking when "these things which ye behold", which were the temple and its "goodly stones and gifts", would be destroyed. This is obvious.

So, with that in mind, where did He answer that question if not in Luke 21:20-24? Do you know that the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem just before 70 AD and then proceeded to destroy the city and the temple buildings in 70 AD? How can Luke 21:20-24 not be about that considering that Jesus had already said that the temple would be destroyed and that the disciples asked Him when that would happen?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe another major weakness in the he-and-him argument is seen in how readily and effortlessly Futurists get their head round calling the whore of Babylon “she” and “her” – even though they would never dream of insisting that she was a literal physical woman.

This totally undermines the literalist reasoning!

Great point! Which won't be acknowledged by those who insist that the beast is a man, of course. But, it should make them think.

 

[Truth7t7]

The word translated as "him" there can also mean "it" and is translated as "it" in other translations, so you're not proving anything here.

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Uh oh. This describes the fourth beast as a kingdom. What do you make of this? How does this line up with your insistence that a prophetic beast refers to a man?

How do you interpret this verse:

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

What does it mean when it says the beast "was"? What does it mean when it says the beast "is not"? It says the beast "shall ascend out of the bottomless pit" in the future which implies that the beast is in the bottomless pit now. So, what man is currently in the bottomless pit and will come out of it in the future?

If you want to be taken seriously, then please address these questions instead of giving your normal repetitive auto response.

The Beast of Revelation chapter 13 below will be a "Individual Human Man" as Strongs clearly identifies below

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18KJV

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Truth7t7]

Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

What temple is this verse referring to? The physical temple that was standing at that time, right? That's obvious. In response to the disciples speaking highly of the temple, Jesus said this:

Luke 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Jesus referenced the "things which ye behold". He was obviously referring to the temple and its "goodly stones and gifts" that the disciples talked about. He then said a time was coming when those things would be destroyed.

After Jesus said that the disciples asked Him about what He said.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

When they asked "when shall these things be" they were asking when "these things which ye behold", which were the temple and its "goodly stones and gifts", would be destroyed. This is obvious.

So, with that in mind, where did He answer that question if not in Luke 21:20-24? Do you know that the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem just before 70 AD and then proceeded to destroy the city and the temple buildings in 70 AD? How can Luke 21:20-24 not be about that considering that Jesus had already said that the temple would be destroyed and that the disciples asked Him when that would happen?

"Yes" John's account clearly describes "The Temple" in question, it clearly describes the temple destroyed was the Lord's "Body", read verse 21 again and again, it's not going away

As shown, Jesus was speaking of the temple of his "Body" being destroyed

When Jesus died and gave up the ghost, the veil in the holy place was rent, it was removed in the spiritual not one stone upon another "Gone"

John's account of the temple visit

Jesus spoke of a symbolic destruction of the temple, represented by his body on the cross of Calvary

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[WPM]

You are "Partial Preterist" in your eschatology as you have been shown several times

This is your strongest point - name-calling those who you have no answer for.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You're the one blinded, Your no translator of the Bible, the 1611 KJV committee members were God fearing brilliant men

Your claim is false, it's the number of "A Man"

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Why do you worship the KJV Bible translators? You should only worship God.

I think the KJV is a good translation, but it is not perfect. For example, look at these passages:

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

How can we baptize nations? They translated the Greek word "ethnos" as nations here, but that was a poor translation. People get baptized, not nations. The Greek word "ethnos" has several different definitions, one of which is people. They should have translated it as "people" in this verse.

Then there's this:

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Do "the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth" number "as the sand of the sea"? Obviously not. It's talking about individual people there, not nations. So, again, the Greek word "ethnos" should have been translated as "people" or "heathen" here instead of "nations".

Now that I have proven that the KJV translators occasionally translated words wrong, you should consider that they did the same in Revelation 13:18 as well. The 666 number represents the number of mankind because mankind falls short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). God's number can be seen as 777 because the number 7 is known to be used figuratively to represent perfection and completeness. The three 7s would be representative of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon

STRONGS G444:
ἄνθρωπος, -ου, ὁ, [perhaps from ἀνήρ and ὤψ, i. e. man's face: Curtius, § 422; Vanicek, p. 9. From Homer down]; man. It is used
1. universally, with reference to the genus or nature, without distinction of sex, a human being, whether male or female: John 16:21. And in this sense
a. with the article, generically, so as to include all human individuals

Why did you fail to mention that the Greek word anthrōpos can also refer to mankind as a whole and not just to an individual human being?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Yes" John's account clearly describes "The Temple" in question, it clearly describes the temple destroyed was the Lord's "Body", read verse 21 again and again, it's not going away

Where is that indicated at all in Luke 21? It's clearly the temple buildings standing at that time that were being talked about in the Olivet Discourse and not the Lord's body. John didn't record the Olivet Discourse. You are being very dishonest here with the text in the Olivet Discourse.

 

[WPM]

Future events that surround the future AOD and future 3.5 year tribulation

(1) Surely we are now in “the times of the Gentiles”? If this is the case then the tribulation in view in our discussion must assuredly be an historic event, not a future hope.
(2) Do you believe that Israel will be "led away captive into all nations" after the second coming then?
(3) Do you believe that "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled” after the second coming?

 

[Truth7t7]

This is your strongest point - name-calling those who you have no answer for.

No name calling whatsoever as you falsely claim

You and Israelite believe and teach Matthew 24:15 (Daniel's AOD) and Matthew 24:21 (The Great Tribulation) are fulfilled, and the literal second coming of Jesus Christ is future, this belief and teaching is "Partial Preterist" in eschatology, its not going to change, I will repeat it again and again

I believe all three items mentioned above are future, I'm "Futurist" in my eschatology, it's that simple

Jesus Is The Lord