22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

Okay, I have no discernment whatsoever. So what?

So, that should be something that concerns you and something you should want to do something about.

Your view is not very sophisticated or nuanced with regard to the facts of the matter. The death of Jesus on the cross ended the need for the atonement sacrifices. His death on the cross did not eliminate the need or desire for other sacrifices. And yes, other types of sacrifices exist.

Animal sacrifices?

No, not going to happen. You and WPM are not looking for answers. You are looking for targets. Anyone with a Bible Search engine at hand can learn about the various other sacrifices God, through Moses prescribed. Do your own research. Once you inform yourself, you will be able to answer the question yourself as to why sacrifices will be practiced during the Millennial kingdom.

This is such a cop out. Why won't you just admit that you have no answers and can't support your view with scripture? Why is it so hard for you to be honest?

At the time of Jesus, he was very critical of how and why his own people practiced Moses. But Jesus himself said that he did NOT come to abolish the Law. Paul, not only approved of his own religion, he practiced it as he said.

So, are you saying it was okay for people to practice the law after Christ's death and resurrection? If so, what was Paul going on about here:

Galatians 3:You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 7 Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. 8 Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. 10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

Again, come to the discussion armed with information.

I'm the one providing information from scripture. You are providing nothing but speculation from your own imagination.

This is your response to everything I say. Why am I not surprised. I can't take criticism from people who have not studied or taken the time to know the material. Go study and then come back.

You have demonstrated zero knowledge and understanding of scripture. You are reading it but not understanding any of it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim is false, however you promote preterist eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment

You deny that the 3 items below are future and literal, correct me if I'm wrong?

Please give your explanation of how, when, where, these will or have been fulfilled?

1.) A future literal human man Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), John's (The Beast) all the same bad guy known as (The Antichrist)

2.) A future literal 3.5 year tribulation, that starts when this human man is revealed to the world

3.) A future time of the (Two Witnesses) Rev 11:3-15 that will have literal bodies that die, and they will bring literal plagues upon a literal world, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

You seem to take almost everything literally. Even in highly symbolic books like Daniel and Revelation. So, how was it that you came to understand that the thousand years isn't literal? It seems like a miracle that you were able to recognize that considering that you seemingly are not able to recognize any other symbolism in scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I gave you the scriptures. Do you not understand that God commanded the animal sacrifices? Have not even read the OT? Seems like you haven't. No wonder.

Where does the OT say that the animal sacrifices were performed in order to make someone holy? I thought only Christ's sacrifice can do that? Can you tell me in which post number you already gave scriptures showing this? Or just share a couple of them again if you can't recall which post it was?

 

[WPM]

I gave you the scriptures. Do you not understand that God commanded the animal sacrifices? Have not even read the OT? Seems like you haven't. No wonder.

You did not present one single Old Testament Scripture text that shows "that the temple sacrifices (among other religious practices) mark the people of God as Holy People." None of Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2, 28:9, 30:6-8 teach that ceremonial rituals make one holy. None of these even mention animal sacrifices or sin offerings never mind describe the meaning of them in the old covenant. You really do not seem to know what you are talking about. You are clearly winging it here with this heretical doctrine your are promoting.

What is more, where do these or any other OT or NT passages, including Rev 20 promote the restoration of the slaughter of the innocent lambs and goats in your future millennial earth? What covenant are these millennial sacrifices under? Is this the old covenant restarted or is it a new old covenant? It is definitely not the new covenant!

So, the blood of Christ is totally ineffective for the religious phonies that swamp your alleged future millennium? What do you imagine these additional sin offerings will achieve (apart from being a sacrilegious circus)? What is the purpose of the futile slaughtering of these innocent animals in your future millennium?

With the sacrifice of animals by old covenant priests there is a continual remembrance of sin, yet by looking at the nail-scarred hands of Christ there is a continual remembrance of the eternal abolition of sin. What a confused message is being sent out in this Premil millennial temple. What an offence these religious actors present by imitating the Old Testament priests in their use of sacrifices. Why would Christ lend his credibility and bless to such a short run at?

Real meaning of old covenant sacrifices

The Old Testament animal sacrifices made atonement for the sin of the children of Israel. They were a temporary covering for sin. They briefly removed the guilt of their sin; notwithstanding, the habitual sacrificing was a constant ongoing reminder of their guilt.

God decreed that “the blood … maketh atonement for the soul” (Leviticus 17:11). The atonement was the only possible means of salvation for sinful man.

It is the shed blood that makes atonement for the soul. Atonement means ‘to cover’. This is the basic objective of the Old Testament sacrificial system.

Lev 4:35 the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev 5:10 the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Theses sacrifices appeased the wrath of God upon God’s people. They were simple a figure or type pointing forward to Christ, the cross and the new covenant. Nowhere are they said to look back.

Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

The sacrifice of the high priest on the Day of Atonement, described in Leviticus, demonstrates forgiveness and the removal of sin. There the high priest took two male goats for a sin offering. One of the goats was sacrificed as a sin offering (Leviticus 16:15), while the other goat was released into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22). The sin offering provided forgiveness, while the other goat represented the removal of sin. These (of course) were a picture of impending Calvary.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The old covenant animal sacrifices provided external cleansing but not internal cleansing. They were also temporary. They had an expiration date. They had no eternal value. When Christ came He removed the need for them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm a Futurist in my eschatology, your claim that I'm a dispensationalist is false

1.) I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture

2.) I don't believe God has a covenant with National Ethnic Israel, the Church is God's Israel

3.) I don't believe in a Millennial Kingdom on this earth

Oh, you don't like being called a dispensationlist? Why don't you think about that before you again falsely call me or WPM a partial preterist even though we don't believe, as partial preterists do, that passages like Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19:11-21 are already fulfilled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You did not present one single Old Testament Scripture text that shows "that the temple sacrifices (among other religious practices) mark the people of God as Holy People." None of Deuteronomy 7:6, 14:2, 28:9, 30:6-8 teach that ceremonial rituals make one holy. None of these even mention animal sacrifices or sin offerings never mind describe the meaning of them in the old covenant. You really do not seem to know what you are talking about. You are clearly winging it here with this heretical doctrine your are promoting.

What is more, where do these or any other OT or NT passages, including Rev 20 promote the restoration of the slaughter of the innocent lambs and goats in your future millennial earth. What covenant are these millennial sacrifices under? Is this the old covenant restarted or is it a new old covenant? It is definitely not the new covenant!

So, the blood of Christ is totally ineffective for the religious phonies that swamp your alleged future millennium? What do you imagine these additional sin offerings will achieve (apart from being a sacrilegious circus)? What is the purpose of the futile slaughtering of these innocent animals in your future millennium?

With the sacrifice of animals by old covenant priests there is a continual remembrance of sin, yet by looking at the nail-scarred hands of Christ there is a continual remembrance of the eternal abolition of sin. What a confused message is being sent out in this Premil millennial temple. What an offence these religious actors present by imitating the Old Testament priests in their use of sacrifices. Why would Christ lend his credibility and bless to such a short run at?

Real meaning of old covenant sacrifices

The Old Testament animal sacrifices made atonement for the sin of the children of Israel. They were a temporary covering for sin. They briefly removed the guilt of their sin; notwithstanding, the habitual sacrificing was a constant ongoing reminder of their guilt.

God decreed that “the blood … maketh atonement for the soul” (Leviticus 17:11). The atonement was the only possible means of salvation for sinful man.

It is the shed blood that makes atonement for the soul. Atonement means ‘to cover’. This is the basic objective of the Old Testament sacrificial system.

Lev 4:35 the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Lev 5:10 the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

Theses sacrifices appeased the wrath of God upon God’s people. They were simple a figure or type pointing forward to Christ, the cross and the new covenant. Nowhere are they said to look back.

Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

The sacrifice of the high priest on the Day of Atonement, described in Leviticus, demonstrates forgiveness and the removal of sin. There the high priest took two male goats for a sin offering. One of the goats was sacrificed as a sin offering (Leviticus 16:15), while the other goat was released into the wilderness (Leviticus 16:20-22). The sin offering provided forgiveness, while the other goat represented the removal of sin. These (of course) were a picture of impending Calvary.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The old covenant animal sacrifices provided external cleansing but not internal cleansing. They were also temporary. They had an expiration date. They had no eternal value. When Christ came He removed the need for them.

Amen! The old covenant animal sacrifices only served the purpose of foreshadowing Christ's "once for all" sacrifice.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The animal sacrifices served their purpose and then no longer had a purpose once Christ made His sacrifice. This should not be hard to understand. And it also shouldn't be hard to understand that it would make no sense for animal sacrifices and offerings to be reinstated at any time in the future since Christ's sacrifice covers sins forever.

If someone wants to claim that animal sacrifices will be performed in the future but for a different reason than in the past, then they need to show that with scripture. But, that is impossible to do. No wonder no one even tries. So, they claim there will be animal sacrifices in the future for some unknown reason and we shouldn't question it. As if scripture would not give the reason, which is a ridiculous notion.

 

[WPM]

You may want to study this a little more, and check out the meaning of cheirographon, handwriting.

Philemon 1:18-19 KJV
18) If he hath wronged thee, or oweth thee ought, put that on mine account;
19) I Paul have written it with mine own hand, I will repay it: albeit I do not say to thee how thou owest unto me even thine own self besides.

Colossian 2:14 NASB
14 having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

At the Egyptian city Oxyrhyncus, in the landfill, they've been collection old parchments from early church times, where the "cheirographon" referred to the hand-written promisory notes used in that day. You would write in your own handwriting that you acknowledge the debt and your promise to pay. This was what was blotted clean. Sins forgiven.

Much love!

Study the real meaning of the old covenant “ordinances” in the Old and New Testament and you will quickly see that this is talking about the elaborate Mosaic ceremonial system, including the animal sacrificial arrangement. Repeated Scripture shows that Christ through His sinless life, atoning death and glorious resurrection abolished this redundant sacrificial system.

Moses told Israel in Deuteronomy 7:11: “Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.”

This covered the full gamut of the old covenant arrangement and Mosaic Law. The “commandments” were the moral code of God. The “statutes” were the ceremonial ordinances. The “judgments” were the formal religious decrees. These collectively represented the old covenant arrangement.

The “ordinances” included in the old covenant a litany of elaborate external regulations, traditions and sacrifices that were active until the time of the new order.

Hebrews 9:1, 6-10, 13-15 tells us: “the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary … the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God … For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.”

The sacrificial system looked forward to the coming Messiah and His atoning sacrifice to end all sacrifices. It rendered the old sacrifice system redundant.

Ephesians 2:15 teaches: “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace.”

When Christ made that final sacrifice for sin He satisfied all God’s holy demands for sin and uncleanness and thus Christ became the final propitiation and substitution for the sinner. Jesus did away with any need or reliance upon the outward keeping of the old covenant religious system. The cross fulfilled forever God’s demand for a perfect once-for-all sacrifice.

Colossians 2:14: “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

Here you have it! This has all been abolished.

Q. When did/will the "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances" occur?

A. Christ "took it out of the way" by "nailing it to his cross.”

These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:20: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances.”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

 

[Keraz]

What is the purpose of these animal sacrifices in your supposed future millennium?

Isaiah 56:1-2 These are the words of the Lord; Maintain justice and do what is right, for My deliverance is close at hand and My victory will soon be revealed. Happy is the person who follows these precepts and holds fast to them, who keeps the Sabbaths unprofained and his hand from all wrongdoing.

Isaiah 56:3-5 The foreigner who has given his allegiance to the Lord must not say; The Lord will exclude me from His people. The eunuch must not say: I am naught but a barren tree. The eunuch’s who keep My Sabbaths and choose to do My will, holding fast to the covenant, will receive from Me something better than children – a memorial and a name within My Temple. I shall give them everlasting renown.

Isaiah 56:6-7 So too, with the foreigners who give their allegiance to Me, to minister to Me and love My name and become My servants. All who keep My Sabbaths holy and hold fast to My covenant; these I shall bring to My holy Mountain and give them joy in My House of prayer.
Their offerings and sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar, for My House will be called a House of prayer for all nations.

Isaiah 56:8 This is the word of the Lord, who gathers those driven out of Israel;
I shall add to those who have already been gathered. John 10:16

This Bible passage, written by the prophet Isaiah, gives a wonderful promise to every person – regardless of race, colour or gender. The promise of the Lord, to give them; “Joy in My House of prayer”

Isaiah 56:7 proves there will again be offerings and sacrifices in a new Temple.
It is what God wants, it is His purpose to have them, your objections are overruled.

 

[jeffweeder]

The old covenant animal sacrifices provided external cleansing but not internal cleansing. They were also temporary. They had an expiration date. They had no eternal value. When Christ came He removed the need for them.

Very true and well said.
No passing over animal blood at the future consummation and restoration of all things for the obvious reasons you stated. So why reinstitute it in the first place.
Perish the deluding thought.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This future Temple will be dedicated to the Hebrew God of the Bible in Jerusalem, it's that simple

No, it isn't that simple. In order for a temple to be considered "the temple of God" it has to be a temple that God Himself would consider His temple. But, that is not the case in this scenario you believe in. It would be a temple of Satan instead since God would not approve of this future temple you believe in, as you have acknowledged yourself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isaiah 56:1-2 These are the words of the Lord; Maintain justice and do what is right, for My deliverance is close at hand and My victory will soon be revealed. Happy is the person who follows these precepts and holds fast to them, who keeps the Sabbaths unprofained and his hand from all wrongdoing.

Isaiah 56:3-5 The foreigner who has given his allegiance to the Lord must not say; The Lord will exclude me from His people. The eunuch must not say: I am naught but a barren tree. The eunuch’s who keep My Sabbaths and choose to do My will, holding fast to the covenant, will receive from Me something better than children – a memorial and a name within My Temple. I shall give them everlasting renown.

Isaiah 56:6-7 So too, with the foreigners who give their allegiance to Me, to minister to Me and love My name and become My servants. All who keep My Sabbaths holy and hold fast to My covenant; these I shall bring to My holy Mountain and give them joy in My House of prayer.
Their offerings and sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar, for My House will be called a House of prayer for all nations.

Isaiah 56:8 This is the word of the Lord, who gathers those driven out of Israel;
I shall add to those who have already been gathered. John 10:16

This Bible passage, written by the prophet Isaiah, gives a wonderful promise to every person – regardless of race, colour or gender. The promise of the Lord, to give them; “Joy in My House of prayer”

Isaiah 56:7 proves there will again be offerings and sacrifices in a new Temple.
It is what God wants, it is His purpose to have them, your objections are overruled.

You are once again misapplying Old Testament scripture as you do very frequently. Why do you never care if your interpretation of Old Testament scripture is supported by New Testament scripture or not?

Hebrews 10:5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; 6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. 7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—I have come to do your will, my God.’” 8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Why would God go from not desiring animal sacrifices and offerings and not being pleased with them to suddenly desiring them and being pleased with them in the future? You need to be able to answer this question if you want to be taken seriously.

Isaiah 56 is not talking about animal sacrifices and offerings. That passage is talking about true Israel and making spiritual sacrifices and offerings, not about the nation of Israel and making animal sacrifices and offerings at a temple there.

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

This is the kind of sacrifice and offering that Isaiah 56 is talking about. Offering our bodies as a living sacrifice is the way that we make sacrifices now rather than offering animal sacrifices. Animal sacrifices were put to an end forever by the sacrifice of Christ! That is what is taught in Hebrews 10. How can you not discern that? Reinstating animal sacrifices in the future would be a complete insult to Christ.

And you noticeably have no answer for why they would be reinstated. Isaiah 56 certainly says nothing about that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Very true and well said.
No passing over animal blood at the future consummation and restoration of all things for the obvious reasons you stated. So why reinstitute it in the first place.
Perish the deluding thought.

Agree. Notice that no one who believes in future animal sacrifices is able to explain why they would be reinstated. That is very telling. Why believe in something that you can't even back up with scripture? And why believe in something that blatantly contradicts scripture like Hebrews 8-10? It makes no sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I said you should apologize for saying I bring *no Scripture!*

And you responded saying you gave Revelation 20, but what I was saying was that you didn't offer any scripture to support your interpretation of Revelation 20. So, I obviously wasn't saying you didn't use any scripture at all, even including Revelation 20. I don't need to apologize for anything. A vast majority of your posts are filled with your own words. You rarely quote scripture in support of your opinions.

And I've brought a *lot* more than a single Scripture--you must be blind to it.

Just do me a favor and review a few of your own posts and tell me how much scripture is referenced there. It might be eye opening to you.

I said *Abraham's Covenant,* or *promises God made to Abraham,* are behind my beliefs on this. They are found in Gen 12-17.

That's enough to just say that? Can't you show how exactly it shows that? What about Galatians 3:16-29? Do you take scripture like that into account when determining what the fulfillment of God's promises to Abraham entail?

Furthermore, I indicated the "Jewish Hope" is behind all this, which were prophecies that Israel would "no more be oppressed by their enemies," and that the "knowledge of God would cover the earth as the waters cover the sea." This is hardly just Rev 20!

Where do any of these prophecies indicate that they're talking about a time period after the return of Christ, though? That's really what I'm getting at. You don't seem to have any scripture which clearly talks about a time period that will occur after Christ's return that would correlate with the thousand years referenced in Revelation 20.

But instead I get this regular accusation from several Amills that I produce absolutely *no Scriptures* to defend my position. Clearly, that is a lie!

Just vaguely referencing referencing Genesis 12-17 without showing exactly how you think that scripture supports your view does not qualify as producing scriptures to support your view in my book.

I'm not going to list 20 or so prophecies that the Jews believe refer to the Messianic Age when they are readily available by doing a simple internet search. I'm not going to do all your work for you.

Do you understand that most Jews are not Christians? Why would you take their word for anything when it comes to interpreting scripture accurately? That makes no sense.

Until the promises Abraham was given by God are fulfilled we must assume that mortal humanity continues. And it is either fulfilled before Christ returns or after he returns. The prophecies of the Messianic Kingdom imply that they are completed only *after* Christ returns.

How are you coming to the conclusion you stated in your last sentence here? Jesus is reigning now and we are in His kingdom now, so why do you put everything off until after He returns?

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Are you utterly unable to distinguish between those who become immortal and those who have not yet obtained they status? Yes, immortals do not die, do not get married, and inherit the eternal Kingdom. But those who have not yet achieved that remain mortal.

You're not getting it. The ones who do not obtain the age to come are the ones who will be cast "into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" when Christ returns. It's right there in Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus made it very clear in passages like Matthew 13:36-43, Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 25:31-46 that there will be two eternal destinies for all people when He returns at the end of this age. Everyone will either inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34,46) or they will go away into "everlasting punishment" in the "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt 25:41,46). How do you reconcile your view with passages like those?

Unless you have mortals propagating individuals you do not get nations of faith God promised Abraham.

Nations of faith? There's no such thing. Paul clearly taught that it is Christ Himself and individuals who belong to Christ who are Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29).

I'm not sure about this passage.

You said this in reference to Matthew 25:31-46, just to remind you of what you were referring to here. Do you think maybe you should spend some time studying the passage and determining if your current doctrine can be reconciled with it? I do.

It may be the summation of the Millennial Period, in which Christ rules and eventually determines among the Millennial population who will inherit eternal life and who will not.

Randy, are you being objective with this response? The timing of the passage is made clear. It will occur when Christ comes with His angels (Matt 25:31). He will come with His angels at His second coming, as passages like Matthew 24:30-31 and 2 Thess 1:7-8 indicate. So, when trying to determine what Matthew 25:31-46 is about, you have to start with that.

It's a good question, but it certainly doesn't determine my position on the Millennium since it is more directly dealt with in the many passages having to do with the Messianic Age.

Say what now? My takeaway from what you said here is that it doesn't matter what Matthew 25:31-46 indicates, you're just going to believe what you want to believe regardless.

That requires not just the restoration of Israel, but also the institution of many nations of faith, with Christianity reigning triumphantly during that time period and pagan nations being forced into accepting these Christian conditions.

You are saying this, but where is this taught in scripture? And how do passages like Matthew 25:31-46 fit into your doctrine? Passages like that show unbelievers being condemned when Christ returns. You instead have them living on for 1000+ more years. I believe you need to give more thought to passages like Matthew 25:31-46 and ask yourself why your understanding of Old Testament scripture does not line up with passages like that one.

 

[WPM]

Isaiah 56:1-2 These are the words of the Lord; Maintain justice and do what is right, for My deliverance is close at hand and My victory will soon be revealed. Happy is the person who follows these precepts and holds fast to them, who keeps the Sabbaths unprofained and his hand from all wrongdoing.

Isaiah 56:3-5 The foreigner who has given his allegiance to the Lord must not say; The Lord will exclude me from His people. The eunuch must not say: I am naught but a barren tree. The eunuch’s who keep My Sabbaths and choose to do My will, holding fast to the covenant, will receive from Me something better than children – a memorial and a name within My Temple. I shall give them everlasting renown.

Isaiah 56:6-7 So too, with the foreigners who give their allegiance to Me, to minister to Me and love My name and become My servants. All who keep My Sabbaths holy and hold fast to My covenant; these I shall bring to My holy Mountain and give them joy in My House of prayer.
Their offerings and sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar, for My House will be called a House of prayer for all nations.

Isaiah 56:8 This is the word of the Lord, who gathers those driven out of Israel;
I shall add to those who have already been gathered. John 10:16

This Bible passage, written by the prophet Isaiah, gives a wonderful promise to every person – regardless of race, colour or gender. The promise of the Lord, to give them; “Joy in My House of prayer”

Isaiah 56:7 proves there will again be offerings and sacrifices in a new Temple.
It is what God wants, it is His purpose to have them, your objections are overruled.

None of this has anything to do with your imaginary future millennium. You are manipulating Scripture to support your false doctrine. So, you are admitting that you need to witness the butchering of innocent animals in order to engender prayer in your future millennium? What type of believer are you? What type of faith do Premils possess? Is Jesus not enough of an inspiration for you? This is ridiculous. It is pitiful. Sad!

Where do you get this teaching in the New Testament? Why are premillennialist so fixated with taking us back to the old covenant? Do you not know that this has been abolished? Is Jesus Christ not enough for you? Is the cross not enough for you? Was the shedding of his blood not efficacious enough for you? He is certainly enough for those who are genuinely redeemed. He is enough for we Amils. They will not need mass blood-letting of countless innocent animals in the world to come "to express righteous sentiment just as they always did." That is ridiculous. Amils believe that the lion and the lamb will be at eternal rest in the age to come.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who is this beast or empire that has been around for 2,000 years?

Think about what the beast represents. Revelation 13:8 indicates that literally all whose names are not in the book of life worship the beast. Do you understand how nonsensical it is to think that literally every unbeliever would one day worship one man? That's impossible and unreasonable to think that literally every unbeliever would worship one person.

But, what is it that every unbeliever, whose names are not written in the book of life, does worship? According to scripture, it is this evil world and its anti-Christian ways.

John 15:18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

What I'm doing here is interpreting scripture with scripture and I know you believe in that approach. So, think about it.

John said the beast "was, and is not and shall ascend from the bottomless pit " in Revelation 17:8. You can't just ignore that. What he meant by that is that the beast was unrestrained in the past before he wrote the book, was restrained at the time he was writing the book and will again be unrestrained at some point in the future. Just like Satan.

The beast is the evil world that hates Christians and that Satan influences to do his bidding. You could think of it as Satan's kingdom as well. It has taken different forms over the years including the evil world empires of the past like the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek and Roman empires. Look at Daniel 7:23 where a beast is described as a kingdom. In Old Testament times Satan was able to do use the world and its governments and systems to do his bidding unrestrained. Satan being unrestained and the beast being unrestrained go hand in hand. But, in New Testament times Satan and his beast (this evil world) has been bound and restrained from keeping the world in spiritual darkness like in Old Testament times. But, there will be a little season in the future when Satan and the beast are loosed and are unrestrained again before Jesus comes.

 

[WPM]

Agree. Notice that no one who believes in future animal sacrifices is able to explain why they would be reinstated. That is very telling. Why believe in something that you can't even back up with scripture? And why believe in something that blatantly contradicts scripture like Hebrews 8-10? It makes no sense.

That is why they are running for the hills when pressed. It is extra-biblical. They have no new covenant basis for it. They deny it is the restoration of the old covenant order. They accepted it is not part of the new covenant arrangement. So, what does it belong to? They don't know! That is because it is not biblical. It is an invented circus that has no home, apart from the hearts and minds of Premillennialists.

That is why there is not two of them can't even agree on its meaning, purpose and biblical support.

 

[WPM]

You are once again misapplying Old Testament scripture as you do very frequently. Why do you never care if your interpretation of Old Testament scripture is supported by New Testament scripture or not?

Hebrews 10:5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; 6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased. 7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—I have come to do your will, my God.’” 8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Why would God go from not desiring animal sacrifices and offerings and not being pleased with them to suddenly desiring them and being pleased with them in the future? You need to be able to answer this question if you want to be taken seriously.

Isaiah 56 is not talking about animal sacrifices and offerings. That passage is talking about true Israel and making spiritual sacrifices and offerings, not about the nation of Israel and making animal sacrifices and offerings at a temple there.

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

This is the kind of sacrifice and offering that Isaiah 56 is talking about. Offering our bodies as a living sacrifice is the way that we make sacrifices now rather than offering animal sacrifices. Animal sacrifices were put to an end forever by the sacrifice of Christ! That is what is taught in Hebrews 10. How can you not discern that? Reinstating animal sacrifices in the future would be a complete insult to Christ.

And you noticeably have no answer for why they would be reinstated. Isaiah 56 certainly says nothing about that.

They do not care what the New Testament says on the subject. They ignore it. They reject it. They rubbish it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That is why they are running for the hills when pressed. It is extra-biblical. They have no new covenant basis for it. They deny it is the restoration of the old covenant order. They accepted it is not part of the new covenant arrangement. So, what does it belong to? They don't know! That is because it is not biblical. It is an invented circus that has no home, apart from the hearts and minds of Premillennialists.

That is why there is not two of them can't even agree on its meaning, purpose and biblical support.

I agree. This new old covenant that they believe in is simply not taught anywhere in scripture. Nowhere does it indicate that the new covenant will one day be replaced by a newer covenant that resembles the old covenant with its animal sacrifices. Simple as that.

 

[Truth7t7]

Satan's kingdom. You are not addressing the fact that this cannot be a human. Stop dodging the obvious.

Satan's Kingdom is only 2,000 years old, sure!

Satan's Kingdom is a empire,sure!

Just come out and say the popes and the Roman Catholic Church throughout history, Big Smiles!

 

[Truth7t7]

I have told you several times now that I do NOT believe that all of Matthew 24 is fulfilled. Only Matthew 24:15-22. So, that is different than what partial preterists believe. Also, I do NOT believe that all of Revelation except for the last two or three chapters is fulfilled. That also is different than what partial preterists believe. Are you paying attention to what I'm telling you right now? Don't forget it. So, stop your foolish nonsense of calling me a partial preterist or I will have to put you on my ignore list. Currently, there are a grand total of 0 people on that list.

Hey were getting somewhere!

Yes you believe and teach Matthew 24:15 Daniel's AOD and Matthew 24:21 The Great Tribulation have been "Fulfilled" this alone puts you in the "Partial Preterist" Camp, Fact, Fact, Fact!

You can roll on the floor and kick your feet all you want claiming your not a "Partial Preterist" You Are

If you believed all of Matthew 24 was fulfilled you would be "Full Preterist"

The events of Matthew 24:15 to 24:31 are "Future Unfulfilled" I'm "Futurist" in my Eschatology

 

[Truth7t7]

You are so stubborn. Futurist use this verse as evidence that the beast is ugly a human being. But what they overlook is that in contrast to what many people teach, 666 is the number of “man,” not the number of “a man.” There is no “a” in the original Greek. It was added by the translators, most of whom believed the Pope was thee antichrist. The Greek simply reads: The arithmós (number) gár (for) anthroópou (man) estín (is)… 666.” Six is the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).

You're the one blinded, Your no translator of the Bible, the 1611 KJV committee members were God fearing brilliant men

Your claim is false, it's the number of "A Man"

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.