22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

Moses is not talking about the praxis of Moses. The ritual system was not nailed to the cross. Rather, the decrees and ordinances concerning the middle wall partition was nailed to the cross.

Hello! The decrees and ordinances were the Jewish ceremonial law sacrifice system. It is gone. The temple is destroyed. It is finished.

This is all theological double-speak to justify your error. It is a religious smokescreen to hide behind to justify your rejection of the cross being the last sacrifice for sin. This is utter foolishness. The whole ceremonial sacrificial system is gone. Your promotion of the old abolished system is anti-biblical. It undermines Christ, the cross-work and the finality of His sacrifice. The cross does not seem to be enough for you and your fellow Premils.

Hebrews 7:19-22 declares, “For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.”

Hebrews 8:6-8 says, of Christ and His vicarious atonement, “now hath He obtained a more excellent ministry (than those exercised by the Old Testament priests with their imperfect sacrifices), by how much also He is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant.”

The Mosaic covenant was but a shadow of the new and better covenant. The writer of the Hebrews then quotes Jeremiah 31, demonstrating its actual fulfilment.

Hebrews 8:13 continues, “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away”

The old covenant could only have been rendered old through the introduction of the new covenant.

Not long after this epistle was written, the temple with its integral sacrifices were finally destroyed. With the destruction of the temple of few years later in AD 70, the temple sacrifices vanished forever.

What Paul said was true before the Cross as well as after. It was never possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. And yet, God commanded this. Why? Whatever the reason, the Jewish people were not sacrificing animals in order that sins should be taken away. They were offered, as David say, as an appeal to God for forgiveness, which God granted to those who had a contrite and honest heart. So what role will animal sacrifices play in the Millennial kingdom? They will still be used to express righteous sentiment just as they always did. Christ will not only forgive their sins, he will ultimately take them away.

Is Jesus Christ not enough for you? Is the cross not enough for you? Was the shedding of his blood not efficacious enough for you? He is certainly enough for those who are genuinely redeemed. He is enough for we Amils. They will not need mass blood-letting of countless innocent animals in the world to come "to express righteous sentiment just as they always did." That is ridiculous. Amils believe that the lion and the lamb will be at eternal rest in the age to come.

We don't need a third temple. No one needs a temple. But during that time when God vindicates his name, a temple will be built for that purpose.

Where does it teach this in Revelation 20? Nowhere. This is another Premil invention.

 

[WPM]

Moses is not talking about the praxis of Moses. The ritual system was not nailed to the cross. Rather, the decrees and ordinances concerning the middle wall partition was nailed to the cross. Paul is talking about the unification of Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians. And what is the basis for this unification? Gods forgiveness and reconciliation was realized at the cross of Christ AND both Jewish and Gentile Christians gain access to God via the Spirit of God, not a temple made with hands.

All of that having been said, the condition stated above does not contradict or displace God's desire to vindicate his holy name among the nations by bringing a group of believing Jewish people to Jerusalem, pouring out his spirit on them, and commanding them to keep Moses, with the changes that he made to accommodate the cross of Christ.


I disagree. Paul does not say or suggest that the priesthood or sacrifices are removed. He says they are "perfected" in Christ. Hebrews 7:11. And they would be unnecessary if history ended at the Second Advent. But they become necessary to God's purpose to vindicate his name. The praxis of Moses is unique to the Jewish people and it defines them as a people. Apparently, God has decided that Jewish distinctive is necessary to his case.

The animal sacrifices were done away forever. Hebrews 10:4-12 explains, “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”

What Paul said was true before the Cross as well as after. It was never possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. And yet, God commanded this. Why? Whatever the reason, the Jewish people were not sacrificing animals in order that sins should be taken away. They were offered, as David say, as an appeal to God for forgiveness, which God granted to those who had a contrite and honest heart. So what role will animal sacrifices play in the Millennial kingdom? They will still be used to express righteous sentiment just as they always did. Christ will not only forgive their sins, he will ultimately take them away.

We don't need a third temple. No one needs a temple. But during that time when God vindicates his name, a temple will be built for that purpose.

You need to fix your HTML.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The law of Moses extends beyond the 10 commandments

Was the women at the well stoned to death as the law of Moses prescribed "No"!

Go thy way and sin no more, Jesus Abolished the Mosaic Law of ordinances

John 8:5-11KJV
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus didn't abandon the law in that passage did he? Wasn't he reminding them that adultery involves two parties?

 

[Truth7t7]

Jesus didn't abandon the law in that passage did he? Wasn't he reminding them that adultery involves two parties?

Jesus completely "Reversed" the law of Moses, the woman at the well was under the sentence of death by stoning, she went away completely forgiven

Your claim of it being a reminder is in complete "Distraction" from the truth, the law of Moses was completely "Abandoned" by Jesus, gone!

There is the Mosaic Law of the 10 commandments, they are alive and well, all to be observed

There is the Mosaic Law in "Ordinances" that has been done away with in Jesus Christ, eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, etc

 

[CadyandZoe]

The old covenant has gone forever! You have nothing in the NT (including Revelation 20) to support this blood-bath of innocent animals in Jerusalem and the starting of new sin offerings in the future. Quite the opposite. Where in Revelation 20, anywhere in the NT or anywhere in the OT does it says that (1) God will re-institute the slaughtering of animals on the new earth, that (2) it will be for sin, that (3) it will start again in another dispensation (namely your alleged future millennium), and (4) that they "will look back"?

First of all, do I need to remind you that the sin offerings continued all through the NT period?
Second of all, I already explained to you that the practice of Moses is compatible with both the New Covenant and the Old Covenant. The practice of Moses is found in both covenants.

I don't accept your premise that the New Testament contains a complete record of God's will.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It would help if you read the detail of the OT texts before submitting them. The Scriptures are saying the opposite to what you are arguing (and what you have been taught).

In my view, there is a difference between meaning and significance. You tend to give the significance at the expense of the meaning.

Jeremiah 33:15-18 predicts Christ’s first Advent, saying, “In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.”

Why?

Because the Messiah would come and supercede these old covenant positions with the substance, fulfillment and the reality. He did! He abolished the old offices because the rest were inadequate because they were performed by imperfect men. They were merely a shadow, type and figure of the true prophet, priest and king. Also, He was the awaited Messiah that would function perfectly in these divine offices eternally. He would never abdicate or be replaced.

Here, you say nothing about what the text means. You simply communicate why you think it is significant. In my judgment, what you find significant isn't actually found in within the text you quoted.

The Old Testament theocracy was marked by the Davidic kingship and the Levitical priesthood.

If it says what you are suggesting (and this refers to the literal earthly kingship of David's seed and the literal Levitical priesthood): why does natural Israel not currently have a physical king today and a temple, priesthood, animal sacrifices and temple ordinance? The reality is: the promises of the perpetuity of the throne of David and the priesthood have been fulfilled in Messiah Christ. He made one final sacrifice for sin and made the temple eternally redundant. He sits on David's throne upon high today.

Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of God's promise concerning the perpetuity of David’s kingly authority. Jesus also fulfills the perpetuity of Levi.

Paul argues that Jesus Christ fulfills God's promise of a perpetual Davidic King. Where in the New Testament does it say that Jesus Christ fulfills the perpetuity of Levi? It doesn't. In fact, Paul argues that Jesus is a priest according to an entirely different order.

Jeremiah is talking about the perpetuity of the Levitical Priesthood. Paul is talking about another priesthood based on the order of
Melchizedek. Both are true. Jesus doesn't replace Levi. Why? Because while on earth, it is against the law for anyone other than a Levite to serve as a priest. During the Millennial Period, Jesus will serve as a king of Israel, sitting on the throne of Israel, and the sons of Levi will serve as priests.

 

[Truth7t7]

First of all, do I need to remind you that the sin offerings continued all through the NT period?
Second of all, I already explained to you that the practice of Moses is compatible with both the New Covenant and the Old Covenant. The practice of Moses is found in both covenants.

I don't accept your premise that the New Testament contains a complete record of God's will.

The Mosaic Law in "Ordinances" has been done away with, no more stoning for adultery, no more eye for eye, no more dietary laws on clean and unclean, no more mandatory circumcision, it's "Gone"!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus completely "Reversed" the law of Moses, the woman at the well was under the sentence of death by stoning, she went away completely forgiven

Your claim of it being a reminder is in complete "Distraction" from the truth, the law of Moses was completely "Abandoned" by Jesus, gone!

There is the Mosaic Law of the 10 commandments, they are alive and well, all to be observed

There is the Mosaic Law in "Ordinances" that has been done away with in Jesus Christ, eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, etc

Think about the account and what took place. Do you think these men were seeking justice or do you think they were attempting to trap Jesus, testing him to see what he would say to her? Why did the men leave?

 

[Truth7t7]

Think about the account and what took place. Do you think these men were seeking justice or do you think they were attempting to trap Jesus, testing him to see what he would say to her? Why did the men leave?

Your response has absolutely nothing to do with the "Fact" the woman was guilty of "Adultery" and Jesus "Abandoned" the law of Moses in death by stoning and forgave the woman

Stop the distraction from this biblical truth, it's not about what you or I think, its about what is written

 

[Truth7t7]

During the Millennial Period, Jesus will serve as a king of Israel, sitting on the throne of Israel, and the sons of Levi will serve as priests.

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hello! The decrees and ordinances were the Jewish ceremonial law sacrifice system. It is gone. The temple is destroyed. It is finished.

Not all of the decrees and ordinances are gone. The Jews continue to practice Moses in some form and these particular religious customs mark them as distinctly Jewish, and some would argue, distinctly Yahweh's people.

The whole ceremonial sacrificial system is gone.

Of course. But the current absence of a sacrificial system means nothing with regard to a future one. The one does not rule out the other.

The Mosaic covenant was but a shadow of the new and better covenant. The writer of the Hebrews then quotes Jeremiah 31, demonstrating its actual fulfilment.

Hebrews chapter eight compares and contrasts two covenants. The New replaces the Old. We make a mistake, however, if we incorrectly conflate the Old Covenant and the Law of Moses. And we make a mistake to conflate Jeremiah 31:31 with Jeremiah 31:34. The New Covenant, as specified in Jeremiah 31:31 does not necessitate the praxis of Moses; but Jeremiah 31:34 DOES necessitate the praxis of Moses.

Is Jesus Christ not enough for you? Is the cross not enough for you? Was the shedding of his blood not efficacious enough for you? He is certainly enough for those who are genuinely redeemed.

Yes, these are enough for all Christians, whether Jew or Gentile.
The question of Amillennialism, the one on the table at the moment, is whether a big whoosh at the end of history is enough for God. Not according to the Bible. According to the Bible, God intends to restore the kingdom to Israel, governed by Jesus Christ and the law of Moses, with a full compliment of Levitical priests, living in the land of promise, free from her enemies.

Where does it teach this in Revelation 20? Nowhere. This is another Premil invention.

Is Revelation 20 the entire Bible? No.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You need to fix your HTML.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[Truth7t7]

Not all of the decrees and ordinances are gone. The Jews continue to practice Moses in some form and these particular religious customs mark them as distinctly Jewish, and some would argue, distinctly Yahweh's people.

There is one people of God (The Church), saved by the precious blood shed on Calvary

Jews practicing the abolished Ordinances of Moses has absolutely nothing to do with eternal salvation, only found in acceptance of the finished work on Calvary and becoming (The Church)

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Mosaic Law in "Ordinances" has been done away with, no more stoning for adultery, no more eye for eye, no more dietary laws on clean and unclean, no more mandatory circumcision, it's "Gone"!

I maintain that the absence of a Jewish sacrificial system today does not lay aside the necessity or realization of another one in the future, when God desires to vindicate his name.

 

[CadyandZoe]

There is one people of God (The Church), saved by the precious blood shed on Calvary

Jews practicing the abolished Ordinances of Moses has absolutely nothing to do with eternal salvation, only found in acceptance of the finished work on Calvary and becoming (The Church)

I didn't say the ordinances had anything to do with Salvation. If I misled you, I'm sorry. That was not my intension. I believe that God will once again establish the animal sacrificial system during a time when he is making his name holy.

 

[Truth7t7]

I maintain that the absence of a Jewish sacrificial system today does not lay aside the necessity or realization of another one in the future, when God desires to vindicate his name.

There won't be a future animal sacrificial system "Blessed By God" your living in a Zionist fairy tale land

Jesus Christ was the perfect sacrificial Lamb of God, abolishing animal sacrifice "Gone"!

 

[Truth7t7]

I didn't say the ordinances had anything to do with Salvation. If I misled you, I'm sorry. That was not my intension. I believe that God will once again establish the animal sacrificial system during a time when he is making his name holy.

There won't be a future animal sacrificial system "Blessed By God" as you falsely suggest, it's Zionist fairy tales in make believe never never land

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your response has absolutely nothing to do with the "Fact" the woman was guilty of "Adultery" and Jesus "Abandoned" the law of Moses in death by stoning and forgave the woman

Stop the distraction from this biblical truth, it's not about what you or I think, its about what is written

But what you say is written isn't actually written. Consider the difference between what a text says (means) and the significance of what was written. You are relating to me your view of what makes the text significant. In your view, the significance of the text is that Jesus abandoned the law of Moses, but the text doesn't actually say, "Jesus abandoned the law of Moses." All it says is, "he who is without sin, may cast the first stone; where are your accusers?; and Go and sin no more." Right. What you relate to me is your conclusion, which may or may not be true. Even if I agreed with you, I could never argue that our conclusion is found in the text itself. It isn't a matter of what is written; its a matter of what the text seems to suggest. In your opinion, the account of the woman caught in adultery seems to suggest or imply that Jesus nullified the Mosaic Ordinances.

I don't it suggests that. I'm willing to be convinced though.

 

[covenantee]

I idolize Jesus and God, and thank them for my KJV.

Get it right.

But you don't thank Them for the Wycliffe, Tyndale, Geneva, et al versions.

Got it wrong.

 

[covenantee]

C'mon, man!

I'm here.

Where are you?