22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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WPM

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Yes to both questions. Animal sacrifices and the priesthood are part of the Mosaic Law, which God commanded. Many prophets predict a time when God will restore the fortunes of his people, circumcise their hearts and these folks will keep all of his commandments.

This is where Premils and Amils go in opposite directions. Amils believe that Jesus was the final sacrifice for sin. The New Testament Scripture makes abundantly clear that Christ was the final sacrifice for sin (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 28, 10:10, 12, 14 and 1 Peter 3:18) and that there are no more offerings for sin (Hebrews 9:26, 10:18, 26 and 1 John 3:5). The reality is, one can search the New Testament pages, but can search Revelation 20 from start to finish, and there is not the slightest allowance for such a religious sham in the presence of Jesus in the age to come. They will never happen, neither for atonement or memorial. This is a Premil invention! Scripture describes the old covenant sacrificial system as “that which is done away” (2 Corinthians 3:11) and “that which is abolished” (2 Corinthians 3:13). It makes clear: “the old testament … vail is done away in Christ" (2 Corinthians 3:14). Hebrews 10:9 confirms: “He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” Hebrews 10:2 confirms they “ceased to be offered.”

Many prophets predict a time when God will restore the fortunes of his people, circumcise their hearts and these folks will keep all of his commandments.

Hello! It is called the new covenant.
 
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WPM

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This passage is not talking about the events that took place during 70 because The Lord did NOT go forth and fight against these nations. Zechariah is talking about another time in our future when the Lord DOES go forth and fight against the nations.

Amils are actually split on whether this should be interpreted literally or spiritually. The literal interpretation normally relates this passage to AD 70 after the Gentiles destroyed Christ (in the form of the Roman soldiers); the Gospel then conquered them. Jerusalem is considered literal earthly Jerusalem. Significantly, the instrument of its destruction – Rome – subsequently became the epicenter of the Gospel witness for many years after the cross. I must qualify: I am not talking about current Roman Catholicism, which is pagan, but rather ancient Christianity that was centered in Rome for years. God brought His wrath upon the city of Jerusalem because of Israel’s disobedience.

The destruction of the city and the raping of the city occurred in AD 70. At that time the Roman Empire enjoyed jurisdiction over the whole known world (Luke 2:1). Jerusalem was destroyed because of their rejection of Christ. The Gentiles came against the city, but the Gospel in turn went out among the Gentiles with great success.

On the other hand, some Amils spiritualize Jerusalem here to pertain to Christ and the kingdom of God and relate the Gentile rejection of the same under the old covenant and the turn around that occurred with the great commission in the New Testament to Zechariah 14:2-3. Basically: the darkened Gentile nations were invaded with the Gospel light of Jesus Christ.
 

Keraz

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there is not the slightest allowance for such a religious sham in the presence of Jesus in the age to come. They will never happen, neither for atonement or memorial.
This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21
 

jeffweeder

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This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21
This is really silly.
No sacrifices were needed in Eden and no sacrifices will be needed in what Jesus has ALREADY established ANEW through his own blood.
 
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Truth7t7

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This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21
Your claim is a complete disgrace to the cross of Calvary, sad!

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True?


As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.
 
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WPM

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This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21

You obviously refuse to come into the NT which shows that the old is gone forever. This is the danger of Premil. It produces so many erroneous resulting false teachings. This is another reason to reject Premil.

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”


Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”


Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”


Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”


Hebrews 10:14 says, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”


There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, he died unto sin once.”


1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”


Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”


Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.
 

Keraz

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This is really silly.
No sacrifices were needed in Eden and no sacrifices will be needed in what Jesus has ALREADY established ANEW through his own blood.
Your claim is a complete disgrace to the cross of Calvary, sad!
Do you know the Mind of God? It is extreme presumption to dictate to God about what He wanted in the past and will do so again,
Remember: God does not change. Malachi 3:6

So you two are Bible prophecy experts? Have you even read Ezekiel 40 to 46, Isaiah 56:6-7, Zechariah 14:16-21, and how the 'beast' of Revelation 13, will stop the sacrifices; Daniel 9:27
Your inability to use or understand these Bible verses is a disgrace to you both.
You obviously refuse to come into the NT which shows that the old is gone forever.
Please show me which of the many verses you have posted say; that sacrifices are gone forever. People who accept Jesus' sacrifice are redeemed forever, that's all.

So wise and learned are you? God has made fools of all those who think they know it all. Matthew 11:25-26
 

CadyandZoe

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If someone/s espouse/s interpretations which clearly depart from the consensus interpretations of 17 centuries of historical orthodox Christian doctrine, whose interpretations would you gravitate to?
I don't gravitate toward interpretations. I do my own work.
 
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CadyandZoe

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This is where Premils and Amils go in opposite directions. Amils believe that Jesus was the final sacrifice for sin. The New Testament Scripture makes abundantly clear that Christ was the final sacrifice for sin (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 28, 10:10, 12, 14 and 1 Peter 3:18) and that there are no more offerings for sin (Hebrews 9:26, 10:18, 26 and 1 John 3:5).
Contrary to your propensity for dualistic thinking, what you say about Premillennialism isn't true. Those who affirm Premillennialism also affirm that Jesus is the final sacrifice for sin.

The reality is, one can search the New Testament pages, but can search Revelation 20 from start to finish, and there is not the slightest allowance for such a religious sham in the presence of Jesus in the age to come.
You can not find anyplace in the New Testament that speaks against or contradicts the prophetic word concerning God's will to bring about a righteous people, who not only fear the Lord but also keep the Law of Moses.

Speaking of that day, when the Lord circumcises their hearts he says, " And you shall again obey the Lord, and observe all His commandments which I command you today."

They will never happen, neither for atonement or memorial. This is a Premil invention! Scripture describes the old covenant sacrificial system as “that which is done away” (2 Corinthians 3:11) and “that which is abolished” (2 Corinthians 3:13). It makes clear: “the old testament … vail is done away in Christ" (2 Corinthians 3:14). Hebrews 10:9 confirms: “He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” Hebrews 10:2 confirms they “ceased to be offered.”
I disagree with your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3, where Paul is contrasting his ministry with the ministry of Moses. Whereas you understand Paul to say that keeping Moses is eliminated in Christ, I understand Paul to say that keeping Moses is fulfilled in Christ. Again, it isn't either the one or the other; it's both at the same time. Many Gentiles make the mistake you are making. They believe that since Paul argued for Gentile salvation apart from Moses, this means that the Jews no longer need to keep Moses.

2 Corinthians 3 does not teach that the ministry of the Spirit in Christ Jesus eliminates Moses. Rather, Paul argues that the Spirit in Christ opens the eyes of the Hebrew people such that they finally understand Moses the way he was intended to be understood. Paul doesn't argue that Moses is removed; he argues that the veil is removed. The essential aspect, missing from the Hebrew praxis, is the enlightened view of the Law having been granted to some of the Hebrews through the ministry of the Spirit. Whenever Moses is read, Paul says, there remains a veil over the eyes of the Hebrews, which the Holy Spirit removes in some cases. The praxis of Moses is not eliminated by the Spirit; Moses is finally and properly understood in the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:12-17
Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Moses is not eliminated in Christ, Moses is properly understood in Christ as Paul argues above. The veil doesn't lay over Moses; the veil lies over the heart. When a person turns to the Lord, the veil over the heart is taken away.

Hello! It is called the new covenant.

What is the New Covenant? As Jesus himself said, he gave his blood so that those who believe in him can have eternal life. Does the New Covenant abolish the Law? No, as Jesus himself said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." This in keeping with the prophets who taught about the New Covenant being made within the context of keeping Moses.

Consider the following passage, which describes TWO distinct time periods: 1) days are coming, and 2) after those days. The salient point here is our observation that the New Covenant is established during the first time period. During the second time period God circumcises the hearts of Israel such that the House of Israel is keeping Moses from an enlightened heart.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The Gentiles are included in the New Covenant as Jesus and the Apostles have said. But God is going to make another covenant with Israel at some future time, "after those days" when he write is law on the hearts of the house of Israel. During that time period, the one we know as the Millennial Period, enlightened people from the house of Israel will be keeping Moses. Both are true.
 
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WPM

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Contrary to your propensity for dualistic thinking, what you say about Premillennialism isn't true. Those who affirm Premillennialism also affirm that Jesus is the final sacrifice for sin.

It is true! How can that be so when you invent more legitimate and acceptable sin offerings restored in a supposed rebuilt temple in the future? You affirm that Jesus is NOT the final sacrifice for sin in your teaching. This is what Premil produces.

The Gentiles are included in the New Covenant as Jesus and the Apostles have said. But God is going to make another covenant with Israel at some future time, "after those days" when he write is law on the hearts of the house of Israel. During that time period, the one we know as the Millennial Period, enlightened people from the house of Israel will be keeping Moses. Both are true.

Not so! You are twisting Scripture to support your false teaching, I suspect you know that. The shedding of His blood satisfied the Father and reconciled the sinner to God, securing eternal redemption (1 John 1:7). By attempting to reintroduce animal sacrifices, you do great injury to the work of Christ on the Cross, undo the once all-sufficient sacrifice that Christ made for sin, undermines the eternal nature of the atonement, and disregards numerous New Testament passages that conclusively prove that Christ’s blood sacrifice was final and eternal. The Old Testament system that employed animal sacrifices was nailed to the Cross and blotted out according to the New Testament.

Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”


The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

For those that still anticipate the renaissance of the old abolished ordinances we need to ask: When did (or will) the “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” occur? From this passage it is clear, Christ “took it out of the way” by “nailing it to his cross.” These ordinances embraced the old covenant civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. They were finished at the cross.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”


The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”


This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”


This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that you would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.

 
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WPM

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The Gentiles are included in the New Covenant as Jesus and the Apostles have said. But God is going to make another covenant with Israel at some future time, "after those days" when he write is law on the hearts of the house of Israel. During that time period, the one we know as the Millennial Period, enlightened people from the house of Israel will be keeping Moses. Both are true.

When Christ made that final sacrifice for sin He satisfied all God’s holy demands for sin and uncleanness and thus Christ became the final substitution for the sinner. Ephesians 2:13-15 also says, “now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Having abolished (katargeo) in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”

The Greek word katargeo is used here to describe the fate that befell the old Mosaic ritualistic system relating to “the law of commandments contained in ordinances.” This word means: ‘bring to nought’, ‘none effect’, and ‘abolish’. Jesus did away with any need or reliance upon the outward keeping of the old covenant religious system. The cross fulfilled forever God’s demand for a perfect once-for-all sacrifice.

Hebrews 7:16 tells us that Christ “is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.”


The whole context here is the removal and the replacement of the old covenant priesthood, the writer of the Hebrews presents Christ as heavens eternal replacement. What is more, we can see that this priesthood cannot pass from one to another, it is not transferrable. No other can appropriate this title or share in the function of the position, Christ alone holds that sacred high priestly office. Christ is the only real and perfect high priest today. He is the ultimate and final High Priest of the redeemed of God.

The animal sacrifices were done away forever. Hebrews 10:4-12 explains, For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”


When Jesus died on the cross He instituted the new covenant which allowed the believer to access God directly. No longer would the bulk of God’s people be excluded from the presence of the Lord by a veil. No longer did they need an earthly priest to represent them before God. They were now free to approach Him personally by simple faith. Christ removed the partition between God and His people when He laid down His life for our sins. He became man’s final high priest.

The curtain between the believer and God was eternally torn apart. The separation was removed. Matthew 27:51 says, “And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent.” This veil was representative of Christ’s physical body. It was torn apart in order to secure eternal redemption for God’s people. It is only through Jesus that we can approach God. The way to salvation can only be found in Jesus.


For what purpose would we need a third temple? Christ is the realization of the shadow, symbol, and type. He is the ultimate fulfillment. He is the eternal temple. Is He not enough? Is He not acceptable enough? Do you need something greater?
 

Truth7t7

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You can not find anyplace in the New Testament that speaks against or contradicts the prophetic word concerning God's will to bring about a righteous people, who not only fear the Lord but also keep the Law of Moses.
The law of Moses extends beyond the 10 commandments

Was the women at the well stoned to death as the law of Moses prescribed "No"!

Go thy way and sin no more, Jesus Abolished the Mosaic Law of ordinances

John 8:5-11KJV
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
 

WPM

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Please show me which of the many verses you have posted say; that sacrifices are gone forever. People who accept Jesus' sacrifice are redeemed forever, that's all.

So wise and learned are you? God has made fools of all those who think they know it all. Matthew 11:25-26

Did you even read them?

The vicarious death of Christ, and the shedding of His blood, saw the complete fulfilment of the old covenant arrangement and the instigation of new covenant. Nothing else! Calvary secured it all! Jesus cried out “It is finished” in John 19:30. This is taken from the lone Greek word tetélestai. This means completed, executed, concluded, discharged (as in a debt). It also means paid in full or accomplished.

What was paid in full or accomplished? The penalty and punishment for your sin. It has been wonderfully and eternally paid for!

Is Calvary not enough?
Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) sacrifice?
Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) covering?
Is Calvary not an eternal (unending) doorway into the presence of God?

Mark 15:37 records, “Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.”

In doing this, the temple was rendered redundant and obsolete. It no longer carried any meaningful spiritual purpose. AD 70 destruction was simply an outward evidence of what Christ secured in the midst of the final week – at the cross. It was not that AD 70 marked the end of the sin offerings (it didn't), Calvary perfectly did that. It was rather that AD 70 was tangible proof that the physical temple had been rendered irrelevant by the cross. It had no more earthly use in the plan of God. A greater temple, sacrifice, high priest had eternally superseded the shadow, type and figure.

Of course, Premils enjoys no New Testament support for their theology. But this does not stop him trying their best to foist these useless, pointless, worthless sin offerings upon Christ and the glorified saints and billions of mortals that will later rebel on Christ en-masse at the end of an alleged future millennium. How Christ must grieve over the espousal of such a doctrine when He ably finishing the work for sin 2,000 years ago.

Scripture describes the old covenant sacrificial system as that which is done away (2 Corinthians 3:11) and that which is abolished (2 Corinthians 3:13). It makes clear: the old testament … vail is done away in Christ" (2 Corinthians 3:14). Hebrews 10:9 confirms: He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” Hebrews 10:2 confirms they “ceased to be offered?

You need to see that they related to before the cross. God brought them back for their Messiah as promised 2000. They rejected Him. He cursed their fig tree. He scattered them throughout the nation. He abolished their defunct religious system. He destroyed their temple. He removed the kingdom from them. It is already fulfilled. We are now in the new covenant. It is built upon better, broader and brighter foundations.
 
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CadyandZoe

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It is true. How can that be so when you invent more legitimate and acceptable sin offerings restored in a supposed rebuilt temple in the future? You affirm that Jesus is NOT the final sacrifice for sin in your teaching. This is what Premil produces.
We believe that that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross is sufficient for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. In addition, we understand, from the prophetic word, that during the Millennial Kingdom, the time when God is vindicating his holy name, animal sacrifices will be performed according to the Law. First of all, the prophet Malachi says that God will purify the sons of Levi so that they will present their offerings in righteousness. Malachi 3:2-4. Secondly, speaking by the Prophet Jeremiah, the Lord declares, "David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to prepare sacrifices continually."

The shedding of His blood satisfied the Father and reconciled the sinner to God, securing eternal redemption (1 John 1:7). By attempting to reintroduce animal sacrifices, you do great injury to the work of Christ on the Cross, undo the once all-sufficient sacrifice that Christ made for sin, undermines the eternal nature of the atonement, and disregards numerous New Testament passages that conclusively prove that Christ’s blood sacrifice was final and eternal.

No one denies that Christ's blood sacrifice is final and eternal. Paul certainly understood this and yet he offered sacrifices at the temple. Acts of the Apostles 21:17-26. Not only did Paul offer sacrifices, he paid the price so that four other men might do the same.

In addition, not only did Paul say that circumcision was nothing, he had Timothy circumcised. Acts of the Apostles 16:1-2.

Bottom line, becoming a Christian doesn't require a Jewish man to give up his Judaism.


The Old Testament system that employed animal sacrifices was nailed to the Cross and blotted out according to the New Testament.

Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 2:14. Paul is speaking of the separation ordinances, the decrees that kept the Gentiles segregated away from Jewish worshippers. Paul is not saying that the Mosaic Law was nailed to the cross; he was saying that bigotry was nailed to the cross. The Hebrew praxis was not finished at the cross as you suppose. We can multiply examples of Peter, Paul, and James continuing to practice their Judaism.

Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.


Paul's statement is true whether the animal sacrifices continue or not. His point is focused on judgmentalism, not on keeping Moses. He says, "Let no man therefore judge you, etc." Judgmentalism is always wrong. He is not commanding Jewish Christians to abandon Jewish festivals or holidays. Not all Jewish Christians are judgmental.

Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

First of all, Gentiles were NEVER under Moses, so I don't know what you mean when you say, "Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely." How can Christianity take anyone away from Moses that was never under Moses in the first place?

Secondly, Paul's point is centered on the Hebrew praxis, which he calls "the rudiments of the world", but he isn't critical of Moses per se. He speaks of those aspects of the Hebrew religion that were added by men. Paul is critical, in his words, of the decrees that are practiced "
in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men." Do you see the difference? Men have added to Moses, and Paul is critical of these additions.

Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that Christian scholars would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.
I agree with your statement in general, but I must point out that Paul's point was exclusively and narrowly centered on the Day of Atonement, not the entire sacrificial system. Paul talks about a change of Law in Hebrews 7:12, which allows a non-Levite to serve as priest. But with regard to the sacrificial system, the change is narrowly focused on the Day of Atonement as he says later in his epistle. Refer to Hebrews 9:7, where Paul talks about the single priest who enters the temple once a year. The sacrifice of Christ supersedes that sacrifice.
 

WPM

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No one denies that Christ's blood sacrifice is final and eternal. Paul certainly understood this and yet he offered sacrifices at the temple. Acts of the Apostles 21:17-26. Not only did Paul offer sacrifices, he paid the price so that four other men might do the same.

In addition, not only did Paul say that circumcision was nothing, he had Timothy circumcised. Acts of the Apostles 16:1-2.

Bottom line, becoming a Christian doesn't require a Jewish man to give up his Judaism.


I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 2:14. Paul is speaking of the separation ordinances, the decrees that kept the Gentiles segregated away from Jewish worshippers. Paul is not saying that the Mosaic Law was nailed to the cross; he was saying that bigotry was nailed to the cross. The Hebrew praxis was not finished at the cross as you suppose. We can multiply examples of Peter, Paul, and James continuing to practice their Judaism.



Paul's statement is true whether the animal sacrifices continue or not. His point is focused on judgmentalism, not on keeping Moses. He says, "Let no man therefore judge you, etc." Judgmentalism is always wrong. He is not commanding Jewish Christians to abandon Jewish festivals or holidays. Not all Jewish Christians are judgmental.


First of all, Gentiles were NEVER under Moses, so I don't know what you mean when you say, "Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely." How can Christianity take anyone away from Moses that was never under Moses in the first place?

Secondly, Paul's point is centered on the Hebrew praxis, which he calls "the rudiments of the world", but he isn't critical of Moses per se. He speaks of those aspects of the Hebrew religion that were added by men. Paul is critical, in his words, of the decrees that are practiced "
in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men." Do you see the difference? Men have added to Moses, and Paul is critical of these additions.


I agree with your statement in general, but I must point out that Paul's point was exclusively and narrowly centered on the Day of Atonement, not the entire sacrificial system. Paul talks about a change of Law in Hebrews 7:12, which allows a non-Levite to serve as priest. But with regard to the sacrificial system, the change is narrowly focused on the Day of Atonement as he says later in his epistle. Refer to Hebrews 9:7, where Paul talks about the single priest who enters the temple once a year. The sacrifice of Christ supersedes that sacrifice.

The old covenant has gone forever! You have nothing in the NT (including Revelation 20) to support this blood-bath of innocent animals in Jerusalem and the starting of new sin offerings in the future. Quite the opposite. Where in Revelation 20, anywhere in the NT or anywhere in the OT does it says that (1) God will re-institute the slaughtering of animals on the new earth, that (2) it will be for sin, that (3) it will start again in another dispensation (namely your alleged future millennium), and (4) that they "will look back"?
 

CadyandZoe

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When Christ made that final sacrifice for sin He satisfied all God’s holy demands for sin and uncleanness and thus Christ became the final substitution for the sinner. Ephesians 2:13-15 also says, “now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Having abolished (katargeo) in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”
Moses is not talking about the praxis of Moses. The ritual system was not nailed to the cross. Rather, the decrees and ordinances concerning the middle wall partition was nailed to the cross. Paul is talking about the unification of Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians. And what is the basis for this unification? Gods forgiveness and reconciliation was realized at the cross of Christ AND both Jewish and Gentile Christians gain access to God via the Spirit of God, not a temple made with hands.

All of that having been said, the condition stated above does not contradict or displace God's desire to vindicate his holy name among the nations by bringing a group of believing Jewish people to Jerusalem, pouring out his spirit on them, and commanding them to keep Moses, with the changes that he made to accommodate the cross of Christ.

Hebrews 7:16 tells us that Christ “is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.”

The whole context here is the removal and the replacement of the old covenant priesthood, the writer of the Hebrews presents Christ as heavens eternal replacement. What is more, we can see that this priesthood cannot pass from one to another, it is not transferrable. No other can appropriate this title or share in the function of the position, Christ alone holds that sacred high priestly office. Christ is the only real and perfect high priest today. He is the ultimate and final High Priest of the redeemed of God.
I disagree. Paul does not say or suggest that the priesthood or sacrifices are removed. He says they are "perfected" in Christ. Hebrews 7:11. And they would be unnecessary if history ended at the Second Advent. But they become necessary to God's purpose to vindicate his name. The praxis of Moses is unique to the Jewish people and it defines them as a people. Apparently, God has decided that Jewish distinctive is necessary to his case.

The animal sacrifices were done away forever. Hebrews 10:4-12 explains, For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”


What Paul said was true before the Cross as well as after. It was never possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. And yet, God commanded this. Why? Whatever the reason, the Jewish people were not sacrificing animals in order that sins should be taken away. They were offered, as David say, as an appeal to God for forgiveness, which God granted to those who had a contrite and honest heart. So what role will animal sacrifices play in the Millennial kingdom? They will still be used to express righteous sentiment just as they always did. Christ will not only forgive their sins, he will ultimately take them away.

For what purpose would we need a third temple? Christ is the realization of the shadow, symbol, and type. He is the ultimate fulfillment. He is the eternal temple. Is He not enough? Is He not acceptable enough? Do you need something greater?
We don't need a third temple. No one needs a temple. But during that time when God vindicates his name, a temple will be built for that purpose.
 
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WPM

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We believe that that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross is sufficient for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. In addition, we understand, from the prophetic word, that during the Millennial Kingdom, the time when God is vindicating his holy name, animal sacrifices will be performed according to the Law. First of all, the prophet Malachi says that God will purify the sons of Levi so that they will present their offerings in righteousness. Malachi 3:2-4. Secondly, speaking by the Prophet Jeremiah, the Lord declares, "David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to prepare sacrifices continually."

It would help if you read the detail of the OT texts before submitting them. The Scriptures are saying the opposite to what you are arguing (and what you have been taught).

Jeremiah 33:15-18 predicts Christ’s first Advent, saying, “In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.”

Why?


Because the Messiah would come and supercede these old covenant positions with the substance, fulfillment and the reality. He did! He abolished the old offices because the rest were inadequate because they were performed by imperfect men. They were merely a shadow, type and figure of the true prophet, priest and king. Also, He was the awaited Messiah that would function perfectly in these divine offices eternally. He would never abdicate or be replaced.

This is therefore not talking about the restoration of the old covenant priesthood. It is not talking about the resurrection of the abolished Judaic sacrifice system. It is talking about Jesus. He replaced the old covenant arrangement in full. There is no more need for it.


In the very introduction to this whole matter we see reference to the fact that Messiah Christ would reign over His people and would save His people. These references refer to His kingship and His priestly ministry. He would execute judgement and righteousness as Israel’s true king. And He would save Judah through His precious blood at the cross of Calvary.

The word karath is a covenant word (Strong's 3772). It is a primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces).

lo' (Strong's 3808); a primitive particle; meaning “no” or “not.” It is a simple negation.

karath is speaking of the covenant in view, lo' negates it. It seems like you are importing your own meaning into the Hebrew word.

Jeremiah is predicting the Messiah’s first Advent when heaven’s eternal king / priest – the Lord Jesus Christ – would appear. His arrival 2,000 years ago rendered these former imperfect types eternally obsolete. Christ assumed David’s throne at His resurrection. He now mediates as king / priest for His elect. The succession of Israeli kings is now eliminated – there is only one accepted eternal king. The succession of Israeli priests is now eliminated – there is only one accepted eternal priest.

Jeremiah 33:19-26 teaches: And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers. As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me. Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.”


The Old Testament theocracy was marked by the Davidic kingship and the Levitical priesthood.

If it says what you are suggesting (and this refers to the literal earthly kingship of David's seed and the literal Levitical priesthood): why does natural Israel not currently have a physical king today and a temple, priesthood, animal sacrifices and temple ordinance?The reality is: the promises of the perpetuity of the throne of David and the priesthood have been fulfilled in Messiah Christ. He made one final sacrifice for sin and made the temple eternally redundant. He sits on David's throne upon high today.

Jesus Christ is the fulfilment of God's promise concerning the perpetuity of David’s kingly authority. Jesus also fulfills the perpetuity of Levi.

This reading is saying the opposite to what you are claiming. Please read this slowly, "David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually."

It says the house of Israel shall "never want" a man to sit on the throne or to make animal sacrifices (as you desire) because Messiah will perfectly and eternally fulfil both offices. He is Israel's lone high priest. He is Israel's lone king. He holds both in the heavenly realm thus rendering the earthly shadow and type redundant.

This is saying the very opposite to what you are claiming. This is telling us that Israel will never again need another earthly sinful temporal priest or king because Messiah will eternally fulfil both. He is Israel's eternal fulfilment of both. I am at a complete loss to see how you can see or any other passage in the New Testament supports the resurrection of the abolished old covenant priests. This whole passage is speaking about Christ - our prophet, priest and king.

Jeremiah was actually prophesying the arrival of Israel's high priest and king who would remove the typical Old Testament operation of both. This happened at Christ's first Advent. Christ is now prophet, priest and king in heaven. The Cross eternally removed the figure, type and shadow. Christ is the substance, the true and the real. To bring back the Old Covenant is to undermine the New Covenant reality. The Levitical Priesthood has been removed long ago – never to rise again. Can I remind you heaven's only accepted priestly representative has already come and removed the old abolished arrangement?
 
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