covenantee
Well-Known Member
God who created hydrogen, oxygen, and water is laughing at you as well.Laughable!
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God who created hydrogen, oxygen, and water is laughing at you as well.Laughable!
Yes to both questions. Animal sacrifices and the priesthood are part of the Mosaic Law, which God commanded. Many prophets predict a time when God will restore the fortunes of his people, circumcise their hearts and these folks will keep all of his commandments.
Many prophets predict a time when God will restore the fortunes of his people, circumcise their hearts and these folks will keep all of his commandments.
This passage is not talking about the events that took place during 70 because The Lord did NOT go forth and fight against these nations. Zechariah is talking about another time in our future when the Lord DOES go forth and fight against the nations.
This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21there is not the slightest allowance for such a religious sham in the presence of Jesus in the age to come. They will never happen, neither for atonement or memorial.
This is really silly.This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21
Your claim is a complete disgrace to the cross of Calvary, sad!This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21
This belief directly opposes many scriptures. We do not know the Mind of God, He wanted sacrifices before, He will again in a new Temple, as fully described by Ezekiel 40-46 and Zechariah 14:16-21
This is really silly.
No sacrifices were needed in Eden and no sacrifices will be needed in what Jesus has ALREADY established ANEW through his own blood.
Do you know the Mind of God? It is extreme presumption to dictate to God about what He wanted in the past and will do so again,Your claim is a complete disgrace to the cross of Calvary, sad!
Please show me which of the many verses you have posted say; that sacrifices are gone forever. People who accept Jesus' sacrifice are redeemed forever, that's all.You obviously refuse to come into the NT which shows that the old is gone forever.
I don't gravitate toward interpretations. I do my own work.If someone/s espouse/s interpretations which clearly depart from the consensus interpretations of 17 centuries of historical orthodox Christian doctrine, whose interpretations would you gravitate to?
Contrary to your propensity for dualistic thinking, what you say about Premillennialism isn't true. Those who affirm Premillennialism also affirm that Jesus is the final sacrifice for sin.This is where Premils and Amils go in opposite directions. Amils believe that Jesus was the final sacrifice for sin. The New Testament Scripture makes abundantly clear that Christ was the final sacrifice for sin (Romans 6:10, Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 28, 10:10, 12, 14 and 1 Peter 3:18) and that there are no more offerings for sin (Hebrews 9:26, 10:18, 26 and 1 John 3:5).
You can not find anyplace in the New Testament that speaks against or contradicts the prophetic word concerning God's will to bring about a righteous people, who not only fear the Lord but also keep the Law of Moses.The reality is, one can search the New Testament pages, but can search Revelation 20 from start to finish, and there is not the slightest allowance for such a religious sham in the presence of Jesus in the age to come.
I disagree with your interpretation of 2 Corinthians 3, where Paul is contrasting his ministry with the ministry of Moses. Whereas you understand Paul to say that keeping Moses is eliminated in Christ, I understand Paul to say that keeping Moses is fulfilled in Christ. Again, it isn't either the one or the other; it's both at the same time. Many Gentiles make the mistake you are making. They believe that since Paul argued for Gentile salvation apart from Moses, this means that the Jews no longer need to keep Moses.They will never happen, neither for atonement or memorial. This is a Premil invention! Scripture describes the old covenant sacrificial system as “that which is done away” (2 Corinthians 3:11) and “that which is abolished” (2 Corinthians 3:13). It makes clear: “the old testament … vail is done away in Christ" (2 Corinthians 3:14). Hebrews 10:9 confirms: “He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” Hebrews 10:2 confirms they “ceased to be offered.”
Hello! It is called the new covenant.
Contrary to your propensity for dualistic thinking, what you say about Premillennialism isn't true. Those who affirm Premillennialism also affirm that Jesus is the final sacrifice for sin.
The Gentiles are included in the New Covenant as Jesus and the Apostles have said. But God is going to make another covenant with Israel at some future time, "after those days" when he write is law on the hearts of the house of Israel. During that time period, the one we know as the Millennial Period, enlightened people from the house of Israel will be keeping Moses. Both are true.
The Gentiles are included in the New Covenant as Jesus and the Apostles have said. But God is going to make another covenant with Israel at some future time, "after those days" when he write is law on the hearts of the house of Israel. During that time period, the one we know as the Millennial Period, enlightened people from the house of Israel will be keeping Moses. Both are true.
The law of Moses extends beyond the 10 commandmentsYou can not find anyplace in the New Testament that speaks against or contradicts the prophetic word concerning God's will to bring about a righteous people, who not only fear the Lord but also keep the Law of Moses.
Please show me which of the many verses you have posted say; that sacrifices are gone forever. People who accept Jesus' sacrifice are redeemed forever, that's all.
So wise and learned are you? God has made fools of all those who think they know it all. Matthew 11:25-26
C'mon, man!Nothing but pure delusion.
I idolize Jesus and God, and thank them for my KJV.You have admitted to idolatrizing at the KJV altar.
Odious!!!
We believe that that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross is sufficient for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. In addition, we understand, from the prophetic word, that during the Millennial Kingdom, the time when God is vindicating his holy name, animal sacrifices will be performed according to the Law. First of all, the prophet Malachi says that God will purify the sons of Levi so that they will present their offerings in righteousness. Malachi 3:2-4. Secondly, speaking by the Prophet Jeremiah, the Lord declares, "David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to prepare sacrifices continually."It is true. How can that be so when you invent more legitimate and acceptable sin offerings restored in a supposed rebuilt temple in the future? You affirm that Jesus is NOT the final sacrifice for sin in your teaching. This is what Premil produces.
The shedding of His blood satisfied the Father and reconciled the sinner to God, securing eternal redemption (1 John 1:7). By attempting to reintroduce animal sacrifices, you do great injury to the work of Christ on the Cross, undo the once all-sufficient sacrifice that Christ made for sin, undermines the eternal nature of the atonement, and disregards numerous New Testament passages that conclusively prove that Christ’s blood sacrifice was final and eternal.
The Old Testament system that employed animal sacrifices was nailed to the Cross and blotted out according to the New Testament.
Colossians 2:14 plainly and unambiguously declares, that Christ's atonement resulted in the “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.”
I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 2:14. Paul is speaking of the separation ordinances, the decrees that kept the Gentiles segregated away from Jewish worshippers. Paul is not saying that the Mosaic Law was nailed to the cross; he was saying that bigotry was nailed to the cross. The Hebrew praxis was not finished at the cross as you suppose. We can multiply examples of Peter, Paul, and James continuing to practice their Judaism.
The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’
These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.
Colossians 2:16-17 tells us: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.
Colossians 2:20-22 finally sums up the sums up the biblical position today: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”
This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.
Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.
I agree with your statement in general, but I must point out that Paul's point was exclusively and narrowly centered on the Day of Atonement, not the entire sacrificial system. Paul talks about a change of Law in Hebrews 7:12, which allows a non-Levite to serve as priest. But with regard to the sacrificial system, the change is narrowly focused on the Day of Atonement as he says later in his epistle. Refer to Hebrews 9:7, where Paul talks about the single priest who enters the temple once a year. The sacrifice of Christ supersedes that sacrifice.Hebrews 7:18-19 makes clear: “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.
The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.
It is hard to believe that Christian scholars would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.
No one denies that Christ's blood sacrifice is final and eternal. Paul certainly understood this and yet he offered sacrifices at the temple. Acts of the Apostles 21:17-26. Not only did Paul offer sacrifices, he paid the price so that four other men might do the same.
In addition, not only did Paul say that circumcision was nothing, he had Timothy circumcised. Acts of the Apostles 16:1-2.
Bottom line, becoming a Christian doesn't require a Jewish man to give up his Judaism.
I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 2:14. Paul is speaking of the separation ordinances, the decrees that kept the Gentiles segregated away from Jewish worshippers. Paul is not saying that the Mosaic Law was nailed to the cross; he was saying that bigotry was nailed to the cross. The Hebrew praxis was not finished at the cross as you suppose. We can multiply examples of Peter, Paul, and James continuing to practice their Judaism.
Paul's statement is true whether the animal sacrifices continue or not. His point is focused on judgmentalism, not on keeping Moses. He says, "Let no man therefore judge you, etc." Judgmentalism is always wrong. He is not commanding Jewish Christians to abandon Jewish festivals or holidays. Not all Jewish Christians are judgmental.
First of all, Gentiles were NEVER under Moses, so I don't know what you mean when you say, "Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely." How can Christianity take anyone away from Moses that was never under Moses in the first place?
Secondly, Paul's point is centered on the Hebrew praxis, which he calls "the rudiments of the world", but he isn't critical of Moses per se. He speaks of those aspects of the Hebrew religion that were added by men. Paul is critical, in his words, of the decrees that are practiced "in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men." Do you see the difference? Men have added to Moses, and Paul is critical of these additions.
I agree with your statement in general, but I must point out that Paul's point was exclusively and narrowly centered on the Day of Atonement, not the entire sacrificial system. Paul talks about a change of Law in Hebrews 7:12, which allows a non-Levite to serve as priest. But with regard to the sacrificial system, the change is narrowly focused on the Day of Atonement as he says later in his epistle. Refer to Hebrews 9:7, where Paul talks about the single priest who enters the temple once a year. The sacrifice of Christ supersedes that sacrifice.
Moses is not talking about the praxis of Moses. The ritual system was not nailed to the cross. Rather, the decrees and ordinances concerning the middle wall partition was nailed to the cross. Paul is talking about the unification of Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians. And what is the basis for this unification? Gods forgiveness and reconciliation was realized at the cross of Christ AND both Jewish and Gentile Christians gain access to God via the Spirit of God, not a temple made with hands.When Christ made that final sacrifice for sin He satisfied all God’s holy demands for sin and uncleanness and thus Christ became the final substitution for the sinner. Ephesians 2:13-15 also says, “now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Having abolished (katargeo) in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”
I disagree. Paul does not say or suggest that the priesthood or sacrifices are removed. He says they are "perfected" in Christ. Hebrews 7:11. And they would be unnecessary if history ended at the Second Advent. But they become necessary to God's purpose to vindicate his name. The praxis of Moses is unique to the Jewish people and it defines them as a people. Apparently, God has decided that Jewish distinctive is necessary to his case.Hebrews 7:16 tells us that Christ “is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.”
The whole context here is the removal and the replacement of the old covenant priesthood, the writer of the Hebrews presents Christ as heavens eternal replacement. What is more, we can see that this priesthood cannot pass from one to another, it is not transferrable. No other can appropriate this title or share in the function of the position, Christ alone holds that sacred high priestly office. Christ is the only real and perfect high priest today. He is the ultimate and final High Priest of the redeemed of God.
The animal sacrifices were done away forever. Hebrews 10:4-12 explains, “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”
We don't need a third temple. No one needs a temple. But during that time when God vindicates his name, a temple will be built for that purpose.For what purpose would we need a third temple? Christ is the realization of the shadow, symbol, and type. He is the ultimate fulfillment. He is the eternal temple. Is He not enough? Is He not acceptable enough? Do you need something greater?
We believe that that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross is sufficient for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. In addition, we understand, from the prophetic word, that during the Millennial Kingdom, the time when God is vindicating his holy name, animal sacrifices will be performed according to the Law. First of all, the prophet Malachi says that God will purify the sons of Levi so that they will present their offerings in righteousness. Malachi 3:2-4. Secondly, speaking by the Prophet Jeremiah, the Lord declares, "David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel; and the Levitical priests shall never lack a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to prepare sacrifices continually."