Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[VictoryinJesus]

I like this post and can agree with what you're saying.

Maybe I do lead by example, although there are some that say I am a poor example. I will never force my will on my wife. I will never say my decision is final if she doesn't agree with something.

As I said above, I have no drive or desire or need to be one (leader or be someone in authority in my marriage). It simply isn't something that crosses my mind or makes me feel incomplete because I cannot be.

“although there are some that say I am a poor example.“ I get that; experiencing the same as being a poor example of a woman. It is such a contradiction within the mind…being told be this, or be that or you lack this or you lack that. To be pleasing seems like an unobtainable goal either being too weak or too strong. I keep thinking about “My strength is made perfect in weakness” where Paul asked God to remove the thorn in his flesh.
“For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection. [10] Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.”

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


To me that says when Paul spoke of gladness when he was weak and they were strong …Pauls gladness was in the weakness of God is stronger than men. ‘the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction’ —edification being stronger than men. For example:
2 Timothy 3:2-11

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Mark 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

2 Corinthians 12:9-10 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee 2 Corinthians 3:5: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly
2 Corinthians 13:9 therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. [10] Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Hebrews 11:33-34 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, [34] Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, (this we wish, your perfection) waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: [32] But I have prayed for you, that your faith fails not: and when you are converted, strengthen your brothers. Luke 22:31-32

 

[reformed1689]

My thinking isn't flawed.

So you wouldn't exercise authority if you and your future wife disagreed and her position was one that wasn't biblical? Wow. Just wow. YES that is flawed and unbiblical thinking.

 

[reformed1689]

I am rejecting your interpretation of the Bible. I am rejecting what you are calling truth, not the truth itself.

Not sure if you realized by now, no matter what you say, I won't be changing my mind.

I know who I am and what I am capable of, not you. Being a leader in a marriage the way you think it should be done is not something I am capable of as it isn't who I am.

No, you are the one rejecting the Bible sir.

 

[Naomanos]

No, you are the one rejecting the Bible sir.

No, I am rejecting your interpretation. Not every male falls into this cookie cutter model that you have. I certainly do not.

I will never be the leader that you seem to interpret the Bible says I need to be. It will never happen.

Also, you think I am going to listen to some anonymous person over the internet instead of my pastors who know us?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So you wouldn't exercise authority if you and your future wife disagreed and her position was one that wasn't biblical? Wow. Just wow. YES that is flawed and unbiblical thinking.

Ephesians 5:21-25 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. [22] Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. [23] For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. [24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. [25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it

2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the Grace
Strong's Greek: 5485. χάρις (charis) -- grace, kindness
5485 Charis —is that Charity?
For you know (so why teach contrary to?) the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ …even as Christ also loved the church …that though He was rich yet for your sake He become poor, (stripped of title and position, brought to nothing, with a header that read “king of the Jew”) so that you through His poverty might become rich.

to me that sounds like Though He was strong yet for our sake He became weak
2 Corinthians 13:4 that through weakness, His body might become strong (in Him).

That doesn’t sound like the theology of “authority over another” and power of today …instead it is a drooling over, and almost insistent slobbering and spiting out “submission” to what is rightfully a man’s power to have and possess. But Jesus Christ wasn’t foaming at the mouth in a greedy pursuit, but already knew all power and authority had been given unto Him of the Father…but then He did the strangest thing …He became weak …though He was rich, He became poor that through HIs poverty, His body might become rich.

 

[marks]

Sure. As I read/study the Bible I would look for certain key word(s) to get context when verse(s) not become immediately understood.

In this case, the question of whether Phoebe was a deaconess, a messenger, or something else.

I chose "something else" as in the case of Deborah [Judges 4:4-5]. There, we read she gave "advice" [judgment] to the children of Israel although she was called a prophetess.

In the case of Phoebe, she is liken as a "helper" or "aid" according to Paul [Romans 16:1-2] like Christ was in Hebrews 2:18. Verse 2 is self explanatory.

To God Be The Glory


.

So then how does this relate to Matthew 28? Weren't you connecting these?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Also, you think I am going to listen to some anonymous person over the internet instead of my pastors who know us?

Now there's a great question! Indeed!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I disagree and said why above.

If a relationship works without submission and brings glory to God, it doesn't matter how that relationship works.

At most I will agree to mutual submission and so would she. However, I am not a leader and never will be. It just isn't who I am and never will be. I will never be the type that says my answer is final and that is all. That is not me. I don't care for or desire power or authority. I don't want either one.

God never tells the husband to rule over his wife, only that the wife submit to the husband, and the husband is the head of the wife. Which way the head goes, the body goes. You will be the lead to your family, it's just the way it is. In a godly marriage, the wife and children will look to the father for direction.

In humility and mutual submission we lead. It's a serious responsibility, and your family will need this from you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

We have an ideal of how Christ treats His body with soft wooing, tender care, patience with free will rather than a forced submission…yet that all flies out the window when a mans’ authority becomes the topic. But then again, I am a woman, a wife, and a mother so maybe it is a tough topic for me.

I've come to think that "the man is the head of the wife" is NOT about ruling over her, it's about the fact that the way the head goes, the body goes, and as a matter of how husbands and wives are in godly families, the families look to the fathers for direction. So fathers need to understand that what they do is going to set the tone for the family.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I will never force my will on my wife. I will never say my decision is final if she doesn't agree with something.

Ditto. We discuss, we resolve, we come to agreement. We find no need for one of us to impose our will over the unwilling other. It just doesn't have to happen.

There's a best answer to every issue, and the Holy Spirit is fully capable to guide us both into it. We are NEVER in the Bible told to impose our will over our wives! Never!

Much love!

 

[marks]

What if her disagreement is unbiblical? See the problem with your flawed thinking there?

I don't impose my will over my wife, we discuss, we pray, we go to Scripture, we reach agreement.

If you are not able to come to agreements with your wife, then you answer is to impose your will over hers, and force her to do that which she does not approve? What if her disagreement is based in a matter of conscience? You would force her to violate her conscience? What if she is right, and you aren't taking the time or energy or humility to learn that?

What if her disagreement is quite Biblical?? Aren't you shortchanging yourself to not make the effort to reach an understanding, and an agreement?

Much love!

 

[Naomanos]

Ditto. We discuss, we resolve, we come to agreement. We find no need for one of us to impose our will over the unwilling other. It just doesn't have to happen.

There's a best answer to every issue, and the Holy Spirit is fully capable to guide us both into it. We are NEVER in the Bible told to impose our will over our wives! Never!

Much love!

That is what some here may be calling for. The husband has final decision and that's it. What he says goes. That is not at all who I am and will never be.

You mentioned that where the head goes the body follows, yet, you never said that the wife would be the head, yet at times she will sure be the head as there are times where the husband has no clue what he is doing, but the wife does. This is why I have an issue with ultimate authority going to the husband. It's cookie cutter and not all marriages fit that cookie cutter mold.

It's another reason why I won't follow the submission as taught by so many, because it doesn't always work for a marriage because that marriage doesn't fit into that mold.

 

[PinSeeker]

What about a prophetess? Is she included in your ban?

What made a person a prophet in Old Testament times was not "predicting future events," but rather relaying the words of God to the people... "Thus saith the LORD..." This was the function that Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Amos, Haggai, and Malachi, to name a few, served. God used them to speak to His people.

But the day of those prophets is long past; that day ended with the coming of Jesus and the Lord coming to speak (and act) for Himself. And this is how we are spoken to by God now.

This is what the writer of Hebrews is saying when he writes, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, Whom He appointed the Heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world."

So, prophecy now ~ in these last days, which began a little over 2000 years ago ~ is, yes, a Spiritual gift, and apportioned to Christians according to God's will for the common good, like every other Spiritual gift, and is virtually synonymous with preaching. There are Biblical ways in which a woman can exercise this Spiritual gift, even in a church, but preaching to a congregation in a church is not one of them.

No, I am rejecting your interpretation. Not every male falls into this cookie cutter model that you have. I certainly do not.

God prescribes roles of men and women in marriage. If you want to call those "cookie cutter models," then so be it, but they are what they are.

I will never be the leader that you seem to interpret the Bible says I need to be. It will never happen.

Ah, then... two possibilities (at least):

1. Maybe God is not really calling you to be the husband of your wife-to-be... :)

OR:

2. Maybe God is calling you to be the husband of your wife to be, in which case by the working of His Spirit in you He will make you into the husband and spiritual head of the family that He has called you to be. :)

I would exhort you to be prayerful concerning God's call upon you and your life. And I don't mean to insinuate that you're not, or that any of us don't need to be. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Naomanos]

God prescribes roles of men and women in marriage. If you want to call those "cookie cutter models," then so be it, but they are what they are.

2. Maybe God is calling you to be the husband of your wife to be, in which case by the working of His Spirit in you He will make you into the husband and spiritual head of the family that He has called you to be. :)

I also reject your replies to me. Yes, I do call them cookie cutter molds and no, not everyone fits into them and yes, God still calls those people to marriage.

I will not be this person that you speak of and I will still get married. Myboastors have said there is nothing wrong with the way we are choosing to have our marriage be and I will listen to them over anonymous people over the internet who don't know us as well as they do.

 

[PinSeeker]

You know, I'm just going to say that I have read most of the posts in this thread, and the venom (figuratively speaking) coming out of people is just astounding, considering the nature of this forum ~ or what that nature is perported to be. Just astounding. Quite un-Christ-like, quite un-Christian. It's heart-breaking, actually.

There's nothing wrong with healthy debate among Christians, but the key word there is 'healthy'... Biblically-speaking, of course.

Just... well... words to the wise.

Grace and peace to all of you.

 

[bbyrd009]

Especially considering that most of their wives are the ones actually driving lol

I've come to think that "the man is the head of the wife" is NOT about ruling over her, it's about the fact that the way the head goes, the body goes, and as a matter of how husbands and wives are in godly families, the families look to the fathers for direction. So fathers need to understand that what they do is going to set the tone for the family.

Much love!

nice imo :)
i suggest that the Bible is using allegory to impart a spiritual principle—something like “logic should reign, but not at the expense of all feeling” maybe—in such a way so that a hypocrite might take the allegory literally, and thus be revealed
There are no male and female in the kingdom

or how else might one justify Ruth and the other female leaders illuminated in the Bible

 

[PinSeeker]

I also reject your replies to me.

Okay, yeah. You're your own person.

Yes, I do call them cookie cutter molds...

Fair enough. Like I said, you're your own person.

...no, not everyone fits into them...

I agree. Paul exhorts those that don't to remain single in 1 Corinthians 7.

God still calls those people to marriage.

God places different callings on different people. Not all are called to be married. All I was saying to you was to prayerfully consider what God's calling is for you. And I would exhort myself to the same thing.

I will not be this person that you speak of and I will still get married.

Like I said (in possibility number 2 above), if you are a Christian and God is calling you to marry this woman (neither of which I have any reason to doubt), then He will make you into what He has called you to be.

My pastors have said there is nothing wrong with the way we are choosing to have our marriage be and I will listen to them over anonymous people over the internet who don't know us as well as they do.

Again, fine, you're your own person.

I really don't get, Naomanos, why you seem to be taking such offense to what I have said. None was intended.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Naomanos]

Paul exhorts those that don't to remain single in 1 Corinthians 7.

He also states that those that burn with passion should marry. So, which is it?

Like I said (in possibility number 2 above), if you are a Christian and God is calling you to marry this woman (neither of which I have any reason to doubt), then He will make you into what He has called you to be.

Or maybe I am exactly who He wants me to be and it is not me who needs to change?

I really don't get, Naomanos, why you seem to be taking such offense to what I have said. None was intended.

My apologies. I can come off kinda cold in my writing at times, and at other times the written word doesn't fully express our emotions well.

 

[reformed1689]

I will not be this person that you speak of and I will still get married. Myboastors have said there is nothing wrong with the way we are choosing to have our marriage be and I will listen to them over anonymous people over the internet who don't know us as well as they do.

Maybe you should look for a pastor that actually preaches the Bible and not just tickles your ears.