Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[reformed1689]

You refer to the context of that which pertained only to this world, which is not why the story in included in the eternal word of God. But if you are to stop at matters of this world--do as you will. Your own.

But the greater context of what Paul's message is not of this world, but of the kingdom of which Paul was a servant.

I have told you the truth.

As usual Scott you are out in left field and have no idea what you are talking about. Don't you have a tin foil hat to put on?

 

[ScottA]

No slander involved. I asked a question and you said "for the record".

Is being overly dramatic Christian like?

You have poor communications skills in this.

And you have a pet peeve, a serious problem...and now lash out.

 

[ScottA]

As usual Scott you are out in left field and have no idea what you are talking about. Don't you have a tin foil hat to put on?

You personify just what Jesus foretold-- that things are not what you expect, that you are unaware, and brother is against brother. And then there is the strong delusion foretold by Paul.

Good job!

 

[praise_yeshua]

And you have a pet peeve, a serious problem...and now lash out.

Yeah. Such an outstanding example of drama on your part.....

 

[reformed1689]

You personify just what Jesus foretold-- that things are not what you expect, that you are unaware, and brother is against brother. And then there is the strong delusion foretold by Paul.

Good job!

Yes and you definitely have some strong delusions. That is 100% correct.

 

[marks]

Right and the usage doesn't allow for anything more than a servant. You are reading way too much into this.

I still point to a very specific statement made, and I'd wonder, If God were to tell us Pheobe was a deacon, how would He do that? Maybe by giving here this title, a deaconness to the church in Cenchrea?

I know that we're not going to agree on this point, that's OK.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I agree about both.

Cessationism cripples the Church, and is full of unbelief

Word of Faith has less problems. It is FULL of faith, and that is great, but the problem is the extreme carnality of the prosperity movement. Their prosperity is not spiritual prosperity, even though they do preach to be like Christ; it is carnal physical prosperity to be like the world, even to the point of extortion (seed faith).

I am a Charismatic woman of extreme faith in God but can see clearly what is wrong in both cases. But all the Word of Faith needs is instruction on one issue - prosperity, not their whole doctrine, like Cessationists do.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Cessationism cripples the Church, and is full of unbelief

Word of Faith has less problems. It is FULL of faith, and that is great, but the problem is the extreme carnality of the prosperity movement. Their prosperity is not spiritual prosperity, even though they do preach to be like Christ; it is carnal physical prosperity to be like the world, even to the point of extortion (seed faith).

I am a Charismatic woman of extreme faith in God but can see clearly what is wrong in both cases. But all the Word of Faith needs is instruction on one issue - prosperity, not their whole doctrine, like Cessationists do.

Wow.... "extreme faith"......

I really wish that Christians would lose their self marketing campaigns. They prefer self marketing campaigns over ministries.

 

[Naomanos]

I just asked my girlfriend to marry me. So, we have talked about this very thing.

I am not a leader, never have been and never will be. It's just not who I am. I have no aspirations of power or wanting power in a relationship. Again, not who I am.

With that said, our relationship is one of equality. There is no "I" make the decision and that's final from either one of us. If we cannot decide on something, then it gets tabled and taken up again later. If we still cannot decide, then the matter gets dropped. We probably didn't need it anyway.

We won't be having kids together. My two little ones adore my fiance and she them. She will discipline them and I have no worries about her with them. She has my complete trust. Her son is fifteen years old and his father is still in the picture. He doesn't need another. I will discipline when needed, but he's a good kid and my fiance does most of the discipline when needed.

If the relationship works and glorifies God throughout, does it matter if it is one where there is no submission or is submission? A relationship where the husband and wife rarely if ever argue, are in love and choose to love the other person flaws and all, does it really matter if the wife is submitting or not?

I guess for me, I believe the scriptures that talk about submission were for those times and places based on the societal customs and cultures.

 

[reformed1689]

I just asked my girlfriend to marry me. So, we have talked about this very thing.

I am not a leader, never have been and never will be. It's just not who I am. I have no aspirations of power or wanting power in a relationship. Again, not who I am.

With that said, our relationship is one of equality. There is no "I" make the decision and that's final from either one of us. If we cannot decide on something, then it gets tabled and taken up again later. If we still cannot decide, then the matter gets dropped. We probably didn't need it anyway.

We won't be having kids together. My two little ones adore my fiance and she them. She will discipline them and I have no worries about her with them. She has my complete trust. Her son is fifteen years old and his father is still in the picture. He doesn't need another. I will discipline when needed, but he's a good kid and my fiance does most of the discipline when needed.

If the relationship works and glorifies God throughout, does it matter if it is one where there is no submission or is submission? A relationship where the husband and wife rarely if ever argue, are in love and choose to love the other person flaws and all, does it really matter if the wife is submitting or not?

I guess for me, I believe the scriptures that talk about submission were for those times and places based on the societal customs and cultures.

Does submission matter? According to the Bible, yes. That was not a cultural principle and you have no reason to believe it was. Put on a pair of pants and be a man and fill your role. The church is full of enough weak men today, don't add to the number.

 

[Naomanos]

Does submission matter? According to the Bible, yes. That was not a cultural principle and you have no reason to believe it was. Put on a pair of pants and be a man and fill your role. The church is full of enough weak men today, don't add to the number.

Yeah, no thanks. I am a man without requiring submission. Nor am I weak because I'm not a leader.

Nor will anyone tell me otherwise!

 

[reformed1689]

Yeah, no thanks. I am a man without requiring submission. Nor am I weak because I'm not a leader.

Nor will anyone tell me otherwise!

Except the Bible....

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Wow.... "extreme faith"......

I really wish that Christians would lose their self marketing campaigns. They prefer self marketing campaigns over ministries.

Yes, I have just as much faith as any Word of Faith person, but without the error of carnal prosperity. Word of Faith started on the premise of faith for healing, but somehow like many denominations, demons twisted the main doctrine and made it carnal. We need to be content in whatever state we find ourselves. Nothing of this world survives.

 

[Naomanos]

Except the Bible....

I disagree and said why above.

If a relationship works without submission and brings glory to God, it doesn't matter how that relationship works.

At most I will agree to mutual submission and so would she. However, I am not a leader and never will be. It just isn't who I am and never will be. I will never be the type that says my answer is final and that is all. That is not me. I don't care for or desire power or authority. I don't want either one.

 

[Philip James]

Whoever has ears to hear, let 'em hear.

And this hits the nail on the head. Those with proper authority, must weild it in service to God, and in service to those over whom they have the authority.
The abuse of authority is a grave matter indeed, as all will have to give an account..

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yeah, no thanks. I am a man without requiring submission. Nor am I weak because I'm not a leader.

Nor will anyone tell me otherwise!

N, yes, don't let anyone convince you to go back under the Old Law. 1 Cor. 7:39 "A wife is bound by law as long as her husband lives; but if her husband dies, she is at liberty to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord." But Paul, when not in the Spirit says, 12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. 15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases.

So which is it, is a woman bound to her unbelieving husband if he leaves, as long as he lives or not? What else is Paul confused about concerning Jewish women, and Christian women?

Paul's love for the Jews kept him in bondage for too long. But when he was in the Spirit he said, there is no difference between male and female, nor Jew and Greek.

He was not to go to Jerusalem, and God sent a prophet to warn him, but his wanting to preach to the Jews overwhelmed him, and he disobeyed his calling to the Gentiles. So, though sinless, Paul was far from perfect in the fruit of the Spirit, namely self-control. And possibly his obvious contempt for women, which Jesus freed us from.

1 Timothy 2:12
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

Who doesn't permit? Paul.

Besides, a woman will naturally respect a man worthy of respect, not from law. Many of the men on this forum, besides yourself which I respect, demand by law. Yuck! Jesus is the one who decides who He gives the office of teacher, and equips them. And if it be a woman, that is up to Him. I will obey Him, not bondage law makers.

 

[JunChosen]

Can you elaborate on this?

Sure. As I read/study the Bible I would look for certain key word(s) to get context when verse(s) not become immediately understood.

In this case, the question of whether Phoebe was a deaconess, a messenger, or something else.

I chose "something else" as in the case of Deborah [Judges 4:4-5]. There, we read she gave "advice" [judgment] to the children of Israel.

In the case of Phoebe, she is liken as a "helper" or an "aid" according to Paul [Romans 16:1-2] as Christ is in Hebrews 2:18. Verse 2 is self explanatory.

To God Be The Glory


.

 

[marks]

Sure. As I read/study the Bible I would look for certain key word(s) to get context when verse(s) not become immediately understood.

In this case, the question of whether Phoebe was a deaconess, a messenger, or something else.

I chose "something else" as in the case of Deborah [Judges 4:4-5]. There, we read she gave "advice" [judgment] to the children of Israel.

In the case of Phoebe, she is liken as a "helper" or an "aid" according to Paul [Romans 16:1-2] as Christ is in Hebrews 2:18. Verse 2 is self explanatory.

To God Be The Glory


.

You said something about when women can have authority over men having to do with Matthew 28. What is that about?

Much love!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am not a leader, never have been and never will be. It's just not who I am. I have no aspirations of power or wanting power in a relationship. Again, not who I am.

You said “I am not a leader, never have been and never will be.” Are you sure? Because I’d suggest you are leading by example. We call dictators leaders…but I wonder since
Mark 10:42-45 speaks of something not typical ‘But Jesus called them to him, and said unto them, You know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. [43] But it not shall not so be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: [44] And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. [45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.’

With that said, our relationship is one of equality. There is no "I" make the decision and that's final from either one of us. If we cannot decide on something, then it gets tabled and taken up again later. If we still cannot decide, then the matter gets dropped. We probably didn't need it anyway.

insightful (Imo). What I hear you saying is if something causes such an disagreement maybe the timing isn’t right so it’s shelved, or maybe it isn’t needed at all. Sounds like comprise, respect, and a peaceful mutual resolve. One thing that amazes me is the contradiction between how we say relationships between husbands and wives are to be …and then all the debates and topics over “free will” and how Christ as the Head of the body does not force His will upon His body. How we will become offended if someone suggest Christ takes away out free will to decide or choose, but then we turn around and want to do the same thing to another. Makes no sense to me. It makes me think of the verse that says to treat others as you would have them to treat you. We have an ideal of how Christ treats His body with soft wooing, tender care, patience with free will rather than a forced submission…yet that all flies out the window when a mans’ authority becomes the topic. But then again, I am a woman, a wife, and a mother so maybe it is a tough topic for me.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I remember watching this guy on YouTube go into a shopping mall and ask women if they submit to their husbands. Almost all of them said no and most of them with a condensending tone. That is the general attitude of most modern women, even some Christian ones.

Half of marriages end up in divorce and most of them of petty little stuff like what to eat or the arrangement of the house.

When my parents build their house my mum wanted the kitchen one way and my dad wanted it the other. They disagreed but in the end a decision had to be made and my dad made it. My mum resented it for years until they renovated it according to her wishes.

In a modern relationship that would be enough to divorce these days. You go to a marriage counsellor and they advocate for divorce straight away if your not happy instead of working through the issue.

But feminism is like the snake on the garden of Eden tempting woman to go against man

In my Trade when dealing with Married people I like to have only one person to deal with, because the issue is or can be complicated of the works truly wanted to be performed, so I need one to stand up and take on the reality's, not two !
When it comes to me, if I deal with two people that's a big no no ! do not go their ! or that is when all the troubles will kicks off and it all could become a huge problem costing me a fortune. it always comes back to one who has to take on the major role and the other is a sub branch.
One can not take direction with too many chiefs in charge. That's fine if they want to pay an Hourly rate ! and the cost will blow out to double or 4 times as more even. and it ends up like a Government = Total incompetents ! Idiots like that you see the cost go easy 4 times what it could be and in the end it becomes a joke. Nonsense vs Nonsense and all the rest.
It's best to let competent people deal with things.