Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[reformed1689]

Same as the church? No. Just looking at general leadership roles at this point.

Although the judges were not just military leaders.

Judges 4:5 KJV
And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

Much love!

So again, that is a civic duty. I have not said anything about women in civic roles. I used to live in South Carolina and I was perfectly ok with Nikki Haley being governor.

 

[marks]

Now who is reading something into the text? Paul did not say she had an official standing, he just said she was a servant of the church and helper of many and to give her whatever she needed. It does not say she held an office.

No one is said in the Bible to have an "Official standing". Am I reading in, or you reading out? It's just that your complaint works both ways. It's not solved within the passage.

She's called a deacon, and you say, "that doesn't mean she's an official deacon" and I say, "she's called a deacon of the church, why would that not be official?"

Does that make sense?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So again, that is a civic duty. I have not said anything about women in civic roles. I used to live in South Carolina and I was perfectly ok with Nikki Haley being governor.

In those days, for Israel, there was no "secular". They were a theocracy, with a culture to match.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

No one is said in the Bible to have an "Official standing". Am I reading in, or you reading out? It's just that your complaint works both ways. It's not solved within the passage.

She's called a deacon, and you say, "that doesn't mean she's an official deacon" and I say, "she's called a deacon of the church, why would that not be official?"

Does that make sense?

Much love!

I understand what you are saying, but I disagree. Paul makes clear distinction in his other epistles that there is an office of Deacon, just as there is an office of Overseer. I can say a volunteer is a servant, but a janitor is an official but still a servant. Usage determines meaning.

 

[marks]

Usage determines meaning. The office of deacon is described only in a couple of passages. And the term deacon is used there. everywhere else different terms are used when it is clearly not the office of the deacon.

And this is why I point to the context in the passage,

Romans 16:1 KJV
I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Doesn't that sound like he's calling out an official position? This is the wording Paul used to commend her to the Rome church. He's naming a role in a church, that it's hers.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

In those days, for Israel, there was no "secular". They were a theocracy, with a culture to match.

Much love!

I understand, that was also pre-church era and I stand by that the judges were primarily military leaders. That goes to say though, there is no correlation between Deborah's service and NT Church women's service.

 

[reformed1689]

And this is why I point to the context in the passage,

Romans 16:1 KJV
I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Doesn't that sound like he's calling out an official position? This is the wording Paul used to commend her to the Rome church. He's naming a role in a church, that it's hers.

Much love!

No, I literally just think this is an introduction, nothing more. She is a sister from the church in Cenchrea who serves there. It does not say how she serves. Anything else is speculation. But she would not fit the qualifications Paul gives of the OFFICE of Deacon in other Epistles.

 

[marks]

I understand, that was also pre-church era and I stand by that the judges were primarily military leaders. That goes to say though, there is no correlation between Deborah's service and NT Church women's service.

I think they handled all the top leadership roles, from military commander to supreme court, Deborah was also a prophetess. Whether that means she gave spiritual leadership, that would be speculation.

I agree, this does not define the woman's role in the church. But it does speak towards what God will and won't do.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, I literally just think this is an introduction, nothing more.

Understood. And I don't think he'd have said "deacon of the church in Cenchrea" lightly. I think this was a serious mission taking Paul's letter to Rome.

Romans 16:2 KJV
2) That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Much love!

 

[JohnPaul]

I would have to say no that both men and women are equal in terms of decision making, helping the husband work things out together and so forth, so I have to say no we don’t have authority over women but respect and treat them kindly, after all we are not Muslims.

 

[marks]

I would have to say no that both men and women are equal in terms of decision making, helping the husband work things out together and so forth, so I have to say no we don’t have authority over women but respect and treat them kindly, after all we are not Muslims.

My wife allows that I have the final decision on matters that concern us both. I am determined to take her interests and wishes into account, and I know full good and well that often times the best thing to do is what she says we should.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

look, here's a window; consider the monikers you choose and then listen to the conversation! Children playing at being mature.....as obvious as a train smash!

 

[Waiting on him]

Acts 18:26 KJV
[26] And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Here you have a woman teaching an apostle.

 

[amigo de christo]

Acts 18:26 KJV
[26] And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Here you have a woman teaching an apostle.

Yes the husband and wife did expound unto appollos . Still that is not at all the same as women trying to lead the church .
Very different indeed .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

All the scriptures there are that CLEARLY state a doctrine of women’s role of submission towards the husband, and all the examples of women reverencing men in the Old Testament; the rebels search for any scriptures, regardless if they are circumstantial non docrtrinal passages, to eliminate obedience to clearly stated doctrinal ones.

[shakes head]

 

[amigo de christo]

All the scriptures there are that CLEALY state a doctrine of women’s role of submission towards the husband, and all the examples of women reverencing men in the Old Testament; the rebels search for any scriptures, regardless if they are circumstantial non docrtrinal passages, to eliminate obedience to clearly stated doctrinal one’s.

[shakes head]

I had such a heavy and sad feeling for so many . If only , if only they had embraced and loved the pattern GOD set
how wonderful it would have been . What joy is in the keeping of all things our LORD did teach and command .
Its so empty to watch folks twist doctrine in order to justify disobediance .
We see the first example of this at the tree with the serpent . The serpent
had one goal , and though he decked it up as though eating of the tree was for their good ,
IT was to their own determinent . DISOBEDIANCE is always the goal of the serpent . HOW much i wish folks
would just return to the biblical pattern , oh how often i have pleaded . Yet many just want to hear what they want to hear .
As for the lambs , they shall hear only WHAT THE LORD has to say . For a lamb loveth GOD , loveth CHRIST
above all , then his or her neighbor as ourself . TRUTH should have been loved and embraced . OH How it would
have truly worked good unto the hearer and the doer . Same TRUTH , same WORD will JUDGE
on the last day . I Truly pray that many will abandon what many teach in the church today ,and learn the bible

 

[OzSpen]

It doesn’t have to.

If you’ve been paying attention to biblical doctrine you would know that women are excluded from that scripture you referenced.

Please show me where women are excluded from the teaching ministry of 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV).

Oz

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Please show me where women are excluded from the teaching ministry of 1 Cor 14:26 (NIV).

Oz

“How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.” (1 Corinthians 14:26)

Because Paul already told you:

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” (1 Timothy 2:11-12)

So the passage you bring attention to does not include women because:

“precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little” (Isaiah 28:10)

 

[JunChosen]

Same as the church? No. Just looking at general leadership roles at this point.

Although the judges were not just military leaders.

Judges 4:5 KJV
And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment.

Much love!

The word "judgment" above, if you don't know it already, can be translated "advice." And that is what the children of Israel came to Deborah for!

The role of a prophet is one who declares the Word of God, or one who is "sent" and Deborah is such a one. To say she has a leadership role in a church setting or over saved men is contrary to Scripture.

The only time a saved woman can have authority over a man is when she's doing the Lord's work set forth in Matthew 28:19-20.

To God Be The Glory

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Cessationism ought to never have been taught .
And let all be on gaurd for what is also running through many a charamsetic church . Its dangerous as well .
Simply learn those bibles well and Believe and heed it all .

I agree about both.