Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[praise_yeshua]

All the scriptures I posted stand as a witness to you!

Sure. They condemn your position.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You seem desperate

Yes, as desperate as this:

“And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.” (Jude 1:23)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Sure. They condemn your position.

How so?

I have not explained how they don’t mean what they say or how they don’t apply to me. That’s you and @marks doing the “white out” on your Bibles.

Please enlighten.

Because you make no sense to me pal.

 

[marks]

No she wasn’t.

She was a servant.

The OFFICE of a Deacon (Servant) is expressly for men alone.

“Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.” (1 Timothy 3:12)

A husband is a MAN!

Man what a corrupter you are!

Translated here "servant", for "diakonon", transliterated Deacon.

Same word used concerning appointing deacons,



Yes, Pheobe was a deacon.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Should I understand that this second quote above was not actually intended as a general statement?

If a woman is not married, what man do you think has "Authority" over her?

(keeping in mind what Paul actually said had nothing to do with husbands having "authority", his statement was to wives about submission.)

Much love!

Ah I see @marks

Right, it was not a general statement. It was relating to this thread specifically and a comment from another poster in another thread.

If a woman is not married, I believe her Father has authority over her. After all, why do we have the father "give away" the bride at a wedding if he does not have any authority over her.

Submission implies that one has authority. Not to mention it says in the same passage the husband is the head of the wife. That is authority.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Translated here "servant", for "diakonon", transliterated Deacon.

Wow.

You post Greek language text and you think your smart? LOL!!!

Well lookey here mr “Greek scholar”, go further and see where else in the NT the same Greek word is translated as “servant” and you will see that you’re not wise for using this device to alter a word in one passage so that it ends up contradicting another clearly explained doctrine in other passages.

Genius!

 

[reformed1689]

This makes an excellent point!

Pheobe was a deacon . . . and the passages which tell us how to choose a deacon imply that they are men.

So the thing to understand from this is, Who can be a Deacon, and, How we are to choose a Deacon, these are not the same thing.

When deacons are appointed, appoint men. But sometimes deacons are just known. The woman who is setting up the chairs before the meeting, she comes early because she knows it needs to be done. Then there is no one to take care of the lobby tables, so she does. And then she sees no one had vacuumed, and so it goes, and a deaconess is caring for the needs of the church.

According to Biblical instructions, we should not choose Pheobe to be a deaconness, and yet there she is!

How to choose . . . and who can actually do it, these are different.

Much love!

With regard to Phoebe the question is this, was she a Deacon (proper) or a servant of the church?

 

[marks]

Right, it was not a general statement. It was relating to this thread specifically and a comment from another poster in another thread.

OK.

If a woman is not married, I believe her Father has authority over her. After all, why do we have the father "give away" the bride at a wedding if he does not have any authority over her.

This also is entirely cultural, this practice.

Submission implies that one has authority. Not to mention it says in the same passage the husband is the head of the wife. That is authority.

She is told to submit, but he is not told to rule. And being called the "head" is not the same thing as giving authority.

She submits, so whichever way the head goes, that's the way the family goes.

We are told to submit to Christ, and we are told, plainly, He is our Lord. This is plainly stated.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

OK.



This also is entirely cultural, this practice.



She is told to submit, but he is not told to rule. And being called the "head" is not the same thing as giving authority.

She submits, so whichever way the head goes, that's the way the family goes.

We are told to submit to Christ, and we are told, plainly, He is our Lord. This is plainly stated.

Much love!

Genesis also tells us the man has authority over the wife. The wife's desire will be contrary to the man and he shall rule over her.

 

[marks]

Wow.

You post Greek language text and you think your smart? LOL!!!

Well lookey here mr “Greek scholar”, go further and see where else in the NT the same Greek word is translated as “servant” and you will see that you’re not wise for using this device to alter a word in one passage so that it ends up contradicting another clearly explained doctrine in other passages.

Genius!

I'm just showing you something. Accept it or reject it, you're choice. And it's your choice how much derision you will post. But you do realize, I hope, that you are revealing yourself, not others, yourself in this post.

Yes, that word is translated servant, and that's what deacon - diakonos - means, "through serving".

And there is no contradiction - if you read it for what it says, and not for what it doesn't say. If you think that only men can be deacons, then yes, Pheobe is going to pose a problem for you, because in fact, she was a deacon, according to the Bible.

Much love!

 

[praise_yeshua]

With regard to Phoebe the question is this, was she a Deacon (proper) or a servant of the church?

So women CAN serve? Which is it?

How can women serve if they have to remain silent?

 

[reformed1689]

So women CAN serve? Which is it?

How can women serve if they have to remain silent?

When have I ever said they cannot serve at all? You are making a strawman argument.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Husbands don't love their wives like Christ loved the church. Wives don't honor their husbands. Both have issues and men prefer to focus upon themselves.

True, but this is still the command for believing husbands and wives and we should be growing in that! My wife is pretty happy. I am as well. We are not perfect but striving.

 

[marks]

Genesis also tells us the man has authority over the wife. The wife's desire will be contrary to the man and he shall rule over her.

God said that "he shall rule over you". Was that an instruction, or a statement of fact? What fallen man does?

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Pheobe is going to pose a problem for you, because in fact, she was a deacon, according to the Bible

Wrong.

According to the BIBLE:

“I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.” (Romans 16:1-2)

Even the modern version ESV agrees with the KJV:

“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church at Cenchreae, that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well.” (Romans 16:1-2)

 

[praise_yeshua]

True, but this is still the command for believing husbands and wives and we should be growing in that! My wife is pretty happy. I am as well. We are not perfect but striving.

I'm glad you've found balance.

My wife is a prophetess. She is always foretelling my future.....

It isn't that she actually knows what I'm going to do...... I'm scared of her. She is mean........ and I like it. :)

I've said for years that it is okay to be "hen pecked" if you're being "pecked" by the right hen.

Submission is a two way street. Submitting to each other produces UNITY. If you're UNITED. You speak the same things.

 

[reformed1689]

God said that "he shall rule over you". Was that an instruction, or a statement of fact? What fallen man does?

Much love!

Well considering that everything God setup after that was patriarchal in nature...

 

[praise_yeshua]

God said that "he shall rule over you". Was that an instruction, or a statement of fact? What fallen man does?

Much love!

I'm wait for them to deal with Phillip's daughter's.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@marks I wonder why you haven’t been on any Bible translation committees…

 

[marks]

So women CAN serve? Which is it?

How can women serve if they have to remain silent?

They can serve in any role which God puts them in. God can choose a woman for any role, even though He told us criteria to use that don't allow for a woman.

For instance, Paul's instructions for choosing elders and deacons require that they be men, that they be married, with children, Christian children. But that does not mean that God cannot or will not raise up someone who isn't married. He sees the heart, He knows the person, we don't. He can choose according to knowledge, but for us, He gives criteria.

Much love!