Why I Am a Cessationist

[ChristisGod]

Certainly! I understand your question about whether there are specific scriptures indicating that the church had fallen into apostasy during the time of the apostles. Here’s how I see it:

Apostasy Already at Work:
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the apostle Paul speaks about a "falling away" or apostasy that would occur before the day of the Lord. This suggests a departure from true faith within the church, which could be seen as an early sign of apostasy.

Warnings and Concerns:
Throughout the New Testament, there are warnings and concerns expressed by the apostles regarding false teachings, divisive behaviors, and moral lapses within the church (e.g., 2 Peter 2:1-3; Jude 1:3-4).

Scriptural Fulfillment:
Regarding the timing of when these issues would come to light or be fully revealed, Jesus himself spoke about false prophets and false Christs in the last days (Matthew 24:24), indicating a culmination or revelation of apostasy towards the end times.

Sealing of the Account:
While specific instances of apostasy during the apostolic era may not be extensively detailed in scripture, the general warnings and prophetic insights given by the apostles indicate the presence and potential growth of such challenges within the early church.

So- while there may not be explicit passages detailing apostasy within the church during the apostolic period, the New Testament does provide warnings and prophecies that suggest the presence and spread of false teachings and moral compromises. The culmination of these issues is further prophesied to intensify as we approach the end times, as indicated by scripture. If you have specific passages or aspects you’d like to explore further, I’m here to discuss it more deeply.

Another cut n paste

 

[ScottA]

Certainly! I understand your question about whether there are specific scriptures indicating that the church had fallen into apostasy during the time of the apostles. Here’s how I see it:

Apostasy Already at Work:
In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the apostle Paul speaks about a "falling away" or apostasy that would occur before the day of the Lord. This suggests a departure from true faith within the church, which could be seen as an early sign of apostasy.

Warnings and Concerns:
Throughout the New Testament, there are warnings and concerns expressed by the apostles regarding false teachings, divisive behaviors, and moral lapses within the church (e.g., 2 Peter 2:1-3; Jude 1:3-4).

Scriptural Fulfillment:
Regarding the timing of when these issues would come to light or be fully revealed, Jesus himself spoke about false prophets and false Christs in the last days (Matthew 24:24), indicating a culmination or revelation of apostasy towards the end times.

Sealing of the Account:
While specific instances of apostasy during the apostolic era may not be extensively detailed in scripture, the general warnings and prophetic insights given by the apostles indicate the presence and potential growth of such challenges within the early church.

So- while there may not be explicit passages detailing apostasy within the church during the apostolic period, the New Testament does provide warnings and prophecies that suggest the presence and spread of false teachings and moral compromises. The culmination of these issues is further prophesied to intensify as we approach the end times, as indicated by scripture. If you have specific passages or aspects you’d like to explore further, I’m here to discuss it more deeply.

Okay, good, you started out at least seemingly defending the church as if they had successfully navigated down through these past centuries without fault, now you have named what was actually foretold and factual regarding the shortfall.

Still, you seem to be in the habit of kicking the can down the road as has been the practice now for millennia. Jesus referred to the end "times", and also to "the time of the end." The two being different. Which if not rightly divided would make much of what was foretold appear to be yet future. That has gotten the church into trouble.

What I was hoping to see you take perspective of is rather that there have been "end times" already, beginning and "already at work" way back then, and that we have now then arrived at that "time of the end." Which is what I have been speaking to. Specifically, what was missing during "the end times" prior to the "time of the end", is what was sealed--sealed until now. I am trying to be gentle in spirit, yet bold, regarding what has by design, not been available until now...certainly not available during the times of restraint and sealing. What I am referring to is the postscript "finish" previewed by John that made him sick to his stomach. Have you felt it too? I mean sick to your stomach by even the remote possibility that what I have been saying is true? Because the time for its revealing is upon us.

 

[Johann]

Okay, good, you started out at least seemingly defending the church as if they had successfully navigated down through these past centuries without fault, now you have named what was actually foretold and factual regarding the shortfall.

Still, you seem to be in the habit of kicking the can down the road as has been the practice now for millennia. Jesus referred to the end "times", and also to "the time of the end." Which if not rightly divided would make much of what was foretold appear to be yet future. That has gotten the church into trouble.

What I was hoping to see you take perspective of is rather that there have been "end times" already, beginning and "already at work" way back then, and that we have now then arrived at that "time of the end." Which is what I have been speaking to. Specifically, what was missing during "the end times" prior to the "time of the end", is what was sealed--sealed until now. I am trying to be gentle in spirit, yet bold, regarding what has by design, not been available until now...certainly not available during the times of restraint and sealing. What I am referring to is the postscript "finish" previewed by John that made him sick to his stomach. Have you felt it too? I mean sick to your stomach by even the remote possibility that what I have be saying is true? Because the time for its revealing is upon us.

Brother, I don't want to come across as "stupid" but I'm still not getting what you are conveying to me-maybe I'm tired 02:45 AM here.
Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

God is love and God is knowable and we are commanded to love others like God loves the world. It’s a sacrificial love and we are to die to self and look out for the interests of others above our own interests. To love the unloveable, the outcasts, those who hate us, our enemies , to bless them and not curse them. God never asks us to be or do something God is not. Jesus’ teaching who was/is God was to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Matthew 5:44).

Loving those who love you is not Gods love that is human love. Jesus said in Luke 6:32-33 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And indeed, if you do good to those doing good to you, what credit is it to you? For even sinners do the same. Luke 6:35- But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

Matthew 5:43-45
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

Since Christ is God He commands us to love our enemies just like God loves His enemies. While we were yet enemies Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)

God is Love.
Loving God is always connected to loving others. If you cannot or do not love others then you do not love God and are deceived. The greatest commandment Jesus answered was to love God with all you mind, heart, soul and strength and your neighbor. Jesus connected the love of God with loving others. He said the whole world will know you are My disciples by how you love one another. John takes it a step further and says if you don't love others then you don't love God. God is love within His own Being/Nature. We love because God is love and we are to be imitators of Christ/God. Jesus died for the ungodly, the sinner , those who were by nature children of wrath. Thats why Jesus said to love your enemies. While we were yet enemies Christ died for us. Love trumps all. Faith, hope and love. The greatest and eternal is love. 1 Cor 13. The others will all fade away, but Love is eternal because its who God is as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


James 2:8
If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF," you are doing well.

John 13:34-35
34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

John 15:13
13 "Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.

John 15:17
17 "This I command you, that you love one another

Matt 22:37-40
And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

1 John 2:3-6
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

1 John 3:14-19
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 16 We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has the world's goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth.


1 John 4:7-14
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.

1 John 4:16-21
16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

Amen, true. Although of course that needs to be balanced out by other things the scriptures teach. " Friendship with the world is enmity with God." "Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers but come out from among them." "Love rejoices in the truth", so we must not compromise the truth for the sake of being friends with people. Bible says to "speak truth to your neighbour". And "faithful is the rebuke of a friend" (love doesn't always feel good, eg, the Lord chastises who He loves as sons.)

Pointing this out because these days a great many in the church are being deceived into following the path of humanistic love, which is a way of the world and flesh, and not the love of God. "There is a way that seemeth right to man but leads to death." Inter-faith, co-exist ecumenicalism efforts, while seeming to be well-intentioned on the surface draws Christians into friendship with the world and being yoked with unbelievers.

Being holy means to be separated, set apart, to the Lord - not being "united" with unbelievers. We are to be in the world but not of it. (Doesn't mean to be unfriendly and unapproachable, etc, but it means we maintain our separateness in spirit/heart and don't forget we are not our own but have been bought with a price.) Sobering to realize that God only has a remnant....indicates to me that we are not to follow the crowd.

 

[Lizbeth]

Okay, good, you started out at least seemingly defending the church as if they had successfully navigated down through these past centuries without fault, now you have named what was actually foretold and factual regarding the shortfall.

Still, you seem to be in the habit of kicking the can down the road as has been the practice now for millennia. Jesus referred to the end "times", and also to "the time of the end." The two being different. Which if not rightly divided would make much of what was foretold appear to be yet future. That has gotten the church into trouble.

What I was hoping to see you take perspective of is rather that there have been "end times" already, beginning and "already at work" way back then, and that we have now then arrived at that "time of the end." Which is what I have been speaking to. Specifically, what was missing during "the end times" prior to the "time of the end", is what was sealed--sealed until now. I am trying to be gentle in spirit, yet bold, regarding what has by design, not been available until now...certainly not available during the times of restraint and sealing. What I am referring to is the postscript "finish" previewed by John that made him sick to his stomach. Have you felt it too? I mean sick to your stomach by even the remote possibility that what I have be saying is true? Because the time for its revealing is upon us.

Seeing through a glass darkly but are you talking about the sons of God to be revealed? As well as son of perdition? At the same time which is the "time of the end"? And that there is a personal level that these things are speaking to us on, as a light unto our path? Battle of the ages...takes place in us? okay..it is a terrifying thought, but this is why it takes faith and trust in God to cross the Jordan and face one's enemy in order to take our "land".

 

[Lizbeth]

No, I never said it did. it doesn't but it is critical that we examine.. i

Yes we need to be discerning.....discern the doctrine and the fruits. But I believe there is a simple safeguard as well. Simply to understand that the presence of miracles and such doesn't necessarily mean at all that God is approving of the one doing them. Gifts and callings are without repentance....Balaam was false because he was compromised not because he wasn't a real prophet. And while we give thanks to God for whatever good may be going on, or that we receive, we do not exalt either the person or the miracles/signs....that's how it can deceive and be turned into a snare. Don't fix our eyes on personalities or miracles but on God alone. If we treat miracles/signs as being just normal activity for God (whether they are frequent or infrequent) we would not tend to idolize them in place of God Himself. These things test our hearts...so we need to guard our HEARTS....who and what we are worshiping and exalting.

God does something through you, great, give thanks to GOD and move on, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. You receive a miracle/sign or word, great, give thanks to GOD and move on, don't hang around being in awe of the vessel God happened to move through (He is not averse to using mere donkeys or a raven to feed you a piece of bread for that matter) and don't assume the person or their doctrine is approved by God...that is a completely separate issue. Simple and safe. These are some things the Lord has been gracious to teach me over the years by my own mistakes and observing the mistakes of others and fruit of that. Let's guard our hearts and always in everything worship God alone.

 

[ScottA]

Seeing through a glass darkly but are you talking about the sons of God to be revealed? As well as son of perdition? At the same time which is the "time of the end"? And that there is a personal level that these things are speaking to us on, as a light unto our path? Battle of the ages...takes place in us? okay..it is a terrifying thought, but this is why it takes faith and trust in God to cross the Jordan and face one's enemy in order to take our "land".

No, what I have been referring to is that little book that the angel of the Lord gave to John (Revelation 10), which is associated with the end of time and the finish to the mystery of God. It was sweet in John's mouth, but bitter in his stomach, then sealed until just before the end. This is that time of its unsealing.

 

[Lizbeth]

No, what I have been referring to is that little book that the angel of the Lord gave to John (Revelation 10), which is associated with the end of time and the finish to the mystery of God. I was sweet in John's mouth, but bitter in his stomach, then sealed until just before the end. This is that time of its unsealing.

Book of Daniel is the only book of scripture that was sealed (as far as I know)....if so the unsealing of it means the prophecies that are contained in it will be fulfilled or completed (the "finishing" of them since some of Daniels' prophecies have already been fulfilled or partially fulfilled, in the historical sense I believe) ...in the time of the end.

 

[ScottA]

Book of Daniel is the only book of scripture that was sealed (as far as I know)....if so the unsealing of it means the prophecies that are contained in it will be fulfilled or completed (the "finishing" of them since some of Daniels' prophecies have already been fulfilled or partially fulfilled, in the historical sense I believe) ...in the time of the end.

Do also read Revelation 10.

 

[Ritajanice]

I am not writing on this topic because I have the final answer on spiritual gifts, for the matter is difficult and Christians who love God and the Bible disagree. Readers should know that Sam Storms and I are friends. We love one another, even though we differ on a secondary or tertiary issue, while at the same time upholding the importance of truth. Over the years I’ve become convinced that some of the so-called charismatic gifts are no longer given and that they aren’t a regular feature of life in the church. I am thinking particularly of the the gifts of apostleship, prophecy, tongues, healing, and miracles (and perhaps discernment of spirits).

So ye of little faith!.or even unbelief?.have you not had the seed of faith planted into your heart/ spirit by God?
It should start off the size of a mustard seed?
What does ye of little faith mean?
In one instance in Matthew 8:26 he uttered these words, “Ye of little faith.” I guess if I would want to hear anything from Jesus, that would probably not be it. What does ye of little faith mean? Simply put it means that at this moment in time your faith has been tested and you have come up short.

Jesus Calms the Storm
23 Then he got into the boat and his disciples followed him. 24 Suddenly a furious storm came up on the lake, so that the waves swept over the boat. But Jesus was sleeping. 25 The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Lord, save us! We’re going to drown!”

26 He replied, “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?” Then he got up and rebuked the winds and the waves, and it was completely calm.

27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”

Matthew 17:20-21New Century Version (NCV) Jesus answered, “Because your faith is too small. I tell you the truth, if your faith is as big as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. All things will be possible for you.

Matthew 17:20​

“And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”

King James Version (KJV)

Without understanding faith and the promises of God...that you don’t seem to believe above in your post.

That’s un- belief?...without faith it’s impossible to please God?

So rather than have faith in God and his word..you’re still in un- belief according to this post below that you posted.?

s I’ve become convinced that some of the so-called charismatic gifts are no longer given and that they aren’t a regular feature of life in the church. I am thinking particularly of the the gifts of apostleship, prophecy, tongues, healing, and miracles (and perhaps discernment of spirits

Let’s see what God’s word says.

1 Corinthians 14 (KJV) - Bible Society. 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do also read Revelation 10.

I think I would be termed a partial preterist. Jesus was a prophet of Israel and in Matthew 24 and corresponding passages in other gospels He was prophesying of what was soon to happen to Jerusalem and the nation which were in a horrendous state of apostasy, but also at the same time prophesying of a time much further in the future, the end of the world. In agreement with OT prophesies.....such as "Before her pains came upon her she had given birth to a Son". Jerusalem's labour pains came in 70 AD and the wrath of the Lamb was poured out on her, tragically. Terrible circumstances....I have heard people mention that Josephus (Jewish historian) wrote about the events of 70AD in some detail but haven't read it myself.

I still don't understand all the details of Revelation very well at all, but it seems to be a reiteration to some extent of the book of Daniel and other prophets, and I believe Mystery Babylon and "that great city" is referring to apostate Jerusalem about to be judged. But since there is a principle of "to the Jew first then the Gentile", I take it that it is talking about the (mostly Gentile) church as well.....times of the Gentiles will come to an end. Then again I have heard some speak about, and occasionally seem to glimpse, how those things could be speaking on a personal level as well...a kind of picture of the sanctifying of the soul....God judging our old man, the strong man to plunder his house (us). Eating the book.....Jesus said we would be judged by His words...?

That's how I'm tentatively seeing this up to now, not carved in stone but subject to tweaking or correcting....just putting it out there.

 

[ScottA]

I think I would be termed a partial preterist. Jesus was a prophet of Israel and in Matthew 24 and corresponding passages in other gospels He was prophesying of what was soon to happen to Jerusalem and the nation which were in a horrendous state of apostasy, but also at the same time prophesying of a time much further in the future, the end of the world. In agreement with OT prophesies.....such as "Before her pains came upon her she had given birth to a Son". Jerusalem's labour pains came in 70 AD and the wrath of the Lamb was poured out on her, tragically. Terrible circumstances....I have heard people mention that Josephus (Jewish historian) wrote about the events of 70AD in some detail but haven't read it myself.

I still don't understand all the details of Revelation very well at all, but it seems to be a reiteration to some extent of the book of Daniel and other prophets, and I believe Mystery Babylon and "that great city" is referring to apostate Jerusalem about to be judged. But since there is a principle of "to the Jew first then the Gentile", I take it that it is talking about the (mostly Gentile) church as well.....times of the Gentiles will come to an end. Then again I have heard some speak about, and occasionally seem to glimpse, how those things could be speaking on a personal level as well...a kind of picture of the sanctifying of the soul....God judging our old man, the strong man to plunder his house (us). Eating the book.....Jesus said we would be judged by His words...?

That's how I'm tentatively seeing this up to now, not carved in stone but subject to tweaking or correcting....just putting it out there.

The dilemma is the world perspective versus the heavenly perspective. Paul eluded to it as "rightly dividing the word of truth." In other words, there are two narratives, that of history and of mankind, and that of God who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. This is the evidence that time is an illusion. --Which should we think is most accurate, God's own perspective, or our own "created" perspective? God explains, saying that His perspective comes to us within our worldly perspective, "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little." Which is not to say both exist as we see it, but rather that we see the actual reality of His timeless truth, incrementally in the form of timed and created "image." Which does not make it so.

The Preterist view is simply that all things have already been fulfilled. Which does not fully account for both perspectives.

Therefore, if we are to acknowledge God as being timeless, true, and perfect, and the world merely His creation mechanism for revelations in bitesize pieces, we must first divide what is written accordingly. Again, meaning scripture describes things both timeless, as well as in times. In God's greater, timeless reality there is no "yesterday, today" and tomorrow, but only "forever." Thus, when it is written that Christ is the "Lamb slain before the foundation of the world" or "it is finished"--it actually is. And the fact that we are still in this created time release world, does not make this the actual truth as we perceive it. On the contrary, God is truth.

Such is the theme of Walking Like Einstein (which is to say, knowing both, though we yet walk in this world).

As for the book of Revelation: John was given visions from across the chasm between heaven and earth protected by God's flaming sword of the Spirit-- meaning much of what he saw was in heaven, not occurring in this world.

 

[Lizbeth]

The dilemma is the world perspective versus the heavenly perspective. Paul eluded to it as "rightly dividing the word of truth." In other words, there are two narratives, that of history and of mankind, and that of God who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. This is the evidence that time is an illusion. --Which should we think is most accurate, God's own perspective, or our own "created" perspective? God explains, saying that His perspective comes to us within our worldly perspective, "precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little." Which is not to say both exist as we see it, but rather that we see the actual reality of His timeless truth, incrementally in the form of timed and created "image." Which does not make it so.

The Preterist view is simply that all things have already been fulfilled. Which does not fully account for both perspectives.

Therefore, if we are to acknowledge God as being timeless, true, and perfect, and the world merely His creation mechanism for revelations in bitesize pieces, we must first divide what is written accordingly. Again, meaning scripture describes things both timeless, as well as in times. In God's greater, timeless reality there is no "yesterday, today" and tomorrow, but only "forever." Thus, when it is written that Christ is the "Lamb slain before the foundation of the world" or "it is finished"--it actually is. And the fact that we are still in this created time release world, does not make this the actual truth as we perceive it. On the contrary, God is truth.

Such is the theme of Walking Like Einstein (which is to say, knowing both, though we yet walk in this world).

As for the book of Revelation: John was given visions from across the chasm between heaven and earth protected by God's flaming sword of the Spirit-- meaning much of what he saw was in heaven, not occurring in this world.

Amen. Who can fathom Truth from a perspective that is outside of time...who can fathom the Lord? Where there is no past, present, future, but all things just ARE? Rightly dividing the word of truth can only be done in spirit by the Spirit, dividing between heavenly/earthly, spiritual/historical. The finite carnal mind just can't perceive infinite things....so yes think I can understand how time would be an illusion of the carnal mind, wow. Who is sufficient for these things?" but only His grace is sufficient, so hopefully we are at least on the way to getting there, little by little.

 

[ScottA]

Amen. Who can fathom Truth from a perspective that is outside of time...who can fathom the Lord? Where there is no past, present, future, but all things just ARE? Rightly dividing the word of truth can only be done in spirit by the Spirit, dividing between heavenly/earthly, spiritual/historical. The finite carnal mind just can't perceive infinite things....so yes think I can understand how time would be an illusion of the carnal mind, wow. Who is sufficient for these things?" but only His grace is sufficient, so hopefully we are at least on the way to getting there, little by little.

The time of these mysteries of God being revealed and comprehendible is upon us.

 

[Wick Stick]

And no one questioned him about his “vision”? No one thought that perhaps the old “angel of light” trick might have had the devil doing his thing here…? We know what deception is…right? How would you know the source of this ‘visitation’? How would he even know? You have to have a sound knowledge of Scripture to stand against “the crafty acts of the devil”.

So, your suspicion here is that the devil appeared to a pagan man in a heathen country and converted him to Christianity, and then sent him to spread the word in places hitherto untouched by the gospel? The lame walk, the blind see, the dead are raised, the word is preached... and this is done by the power of satan?

This is why I was hesitant to share in the first place...

I could relate those experiences to you... but they'd just be second-hand and anecdotal for your part.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, your suspicion here is that the devil appeared to a pagan man in a heathen country and converted him to Christianity, and then sent him to spread the word in places hitherto untouched by the gospel?

If you were the devil and you could convince a pagan man to adopt a counterfeit form of Christianity (of his invention) by using his own supernatural power, and then use that man to spread the counterfeit religion to other unsuspecting pagans….what a wonderful ruse…don’t you think?

The apostle Paul warned about these deceitful men….
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.” (2 Cor 11:13-15 NASB)

Failure to discern the origins of these supernatural powers which appear to be from God, allows the devil a foot in the door, and those who do not know that these are NOT from God, but the devil performing his “angel of light” trick….are biblically uneducated and gullible, so they will fall for it every time.

The lame walk, the blind see, the dead are raised, the word is preached... and this is done by the power of satan?

This is why I was hesitant to share in the first place...

As you should be hesitant…..deceitful work from the devil is designed to look good and beneficial….that is why it is deceitful. He is handing you a false “Christianity”….one he invented to lead Christians astray, just as Jesus said he would.

If you are familiar with Jesus’ parable of the “wheat and the weeds” you will know that the “weeds” he spoke about (planted by the devil) were well known to the Jewish farmers of his day. (Matt 13:24-30; 36-42)

The weed is toxic, and it is called bearded darnel……in the Middle East it is called “wheat’s evil twin”….in the early growing stages, it is indistinguishable from wheat, only when it reaches a certain stage does it betray its identity……but by then the root systems of both plants are so intertwined that there is no way to uproot the weeds without taking the wheat with them….so a farmer would cut his losses and allow them to grow together until the harvest time, when it was obvious which was which. The reapers would then gather the weeds first, and destroy them, harvesting the wheat, though the yield was reduced in size, and placing the grain in his storehouse. This is what the devil has done with the Christian faith…..he has so many counterfeits that is is a daunting task for anyone to pick the real one. So are we left to make that choice on our own? Thankfully we are not.
There is a diamond in that pile of broken glass….and only God can help us find it….he is the one who “draws” right hearted ones to his truth and invites them into his spiritual family of worshippers. (John 6:44; 65)

God is searching the human race to find those who are not taken in by the counterfeit, because they see so much that is wrong with the whole hopelessly divided “church” system…..they have carved the Christ up into so many different pieces that the honest hearted ones are sure it’s all a sham. Yet they know that God exists and they pray to him to help them find those whom he has already “drawn” to the truth……the thing is, it is so different to what people have come to accept over many centuries, that the truth looks like a lie…and the lie looks like the truth.

Are you getting an idea of what the big picture looks like? Don’t accept what the majority believe because God’s true worshippers have never been a majority…ever. (Matt 7:13-14) The devil rules this world (1 John 5:19) and so nothing in it is genuine…..it’s all fake….everything we have been taught to trust in it, will prove to be a sad illusion. Right now we are seeing God lifting the lid on the devil’s underworld and seeing world rulership for what it is and who controls it. (Luke 4:5-6) Corruption is inextricably embedded in the whole system….politically, commercially and religiously.

Those waiting for man to solve the world’s problems will be disappointed…..the Lord’s Prayer has God’s solution…..yet most have no idea what they are praying for….
Please tell me what that prayer is all about, since it is the most oft-quoted prayer in existence….

 

[Wick Stick]

If you were the devil and you could convince a pagan man to adopt a counterfeit form of Christianity (of his invention) by using his own supernatural power, and then use that man to spread the counterfeit religion to other unsuspecting pagans….what a wonderful ruse…don’t you think?

The apostle Paul warned about these deceitful men….
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.” (2 Cor 11:13-15 NASB)

Failure to discern the origins of these supernatural powers which appear to be from God, allows the devil a foot in the door, and those who do not know that these are NOT from God, but the devil performing his “angel of light” trick….are biblically uneducated and gullible, so they will fall for it every time.

As you should be hesitant…..deceitful work from the devil is designed to look good and beneficial….that is why it is deceitful. He is handing you a false “Christianity”….one he invented to lead Christians astray, just as Jesus said he would.

If you are familiar with Jesus’ parable of the “wheat and the weeds” you will know that the “weeds” he spoke about (planted by the devil) were well known to the Jewish farmers of his day. (Matt 13:24-30; 36-42)

The weed is toxic, and it is called bearded darnel……in the Middle East it is called “wheat’s evil twin”….in the early growing stages, it is indistinguishable from wheat, only when it reaches a certain stage does it betray its identity……but by then the root systems of both plants are so intertwined that there is no way to uproot the weeds without taking the wheat with them….so a farmer would cut his losses and allow them to grow together until the harvest time, when it was obvious which was which. The reapers would then gather the weeds first, and destroy them, harvesting the wheat, though the yield was reduced in size, and placing the grain in his storehouse. This is what the devil has done with the Christian faith…..he has so many counterfeits that is is a daunting task for anyone to pick the real one. So are we left to make that choice on our own? Thankfully we are not.
There is a diamond in that pile of broken glass….and only God can help us find it….he is the one who “draws” right hearted ones to his truth and invites them into his spiritual family of worshippers. (John 6:44; 65)

God is searching the human race to find those who are not taken in by the counterfeit, because they see so much that is wrong with the whole hopelessly divided “church” system…..they have carved the Christ up into so many different pieces that the honest hearted ones are sure it’s all a sham. Yet they know that God exists and they pray to him to help them find those whom he has already “drawn” to the truth……the thing is, it is so different to what people have come to accept over many centuries, that the truth looks like a lie…and the lie looks like the truth.

Are you getting an idea of what the big picture looks like? Don’t accept what the majority believe because God’s true worshippers have never been a majority…ever. (Matt 7:13-14) The devil rules this world (1 John 5:19) and so nothing in it is genuine…..it’s all fake….everything we have been taught to trust in it, will prove to be a sad illusion. Right now we are seeing God lifting the lid on the devil’s underworld and seeing world rulership for what it is and who controls it. (Luke 4:5-6) Corruption is inextricably embedded in the whole system….politically, commercially and religiously.

Those waiting for man to solve the world’s problems will be disappointed…..the Lord’s Prayer has God’s solution…..yet most have no idea what they are praying for….
Please tell me what that prayer is all about, since it is the most oft-quoted prayer in existence….

 

[Aunty Jane]

That doesn’t answer my question…..you look clueless….
Can you not explain Christendom’s most oft repeated prayer?
What did Jesus teach us to pray for?????
Was the question too difficult?!

 

[Lizbeth]

If you were the devil and you could convince a pagan man to adopt a counterfeit form of Christianity (of his invention) by using his own supernatural power, and then use that man to spread the counterfeit religion to other unsuspecting pagans….what a wonderful ruse…don’t you think?

The apostle Paul warned about these deceitful men….
“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.” (2 Cor 11:13-15 NASB)

Failure to discern the origins of these supernatural powers which appear to be from God, allows the devil a foot in the door, and those who do not know that these are NOT from God, but the devil performing his “angel of light” trick….are biblically uneducated and gullible, so they will fall for it every time.

As you should be hesitant…..deceitful work from the devil is designed to look good and beneficial….that is why it is deceitful. He is handing you a false “Christianity”….one he invented to lead Christians astray, just as Jesus said he would.

If you are familiar with Jesus’ parable of the “wheat and the weeds” you will know that the “weeds” he spoke about (planted by the devil) were well known to the Jewish farmers of his day. (Matt 13:24-30; 36-42)

The weed is toxic, and it is called bearded darnel……in the Middle East it is called “wheat’s evil twin”….in the early growing stages, it is indistinguishable from wheat, only when it reaches a certain stage does it betray its identity……but by then the root systems of both plants are so intertwined that there is no way to uproot the weeds without taking the wheat with them….so a farmer would cut his losses and allow them to grow together until the harvest time, when it was obvious which was which. The reapers would then gather the weeds first, and destroy them, harvesting the wheat, though the yield was reduced in size, and placing the grain in his storehouse. This is what the devil has done with the Christian faith…..he has so many counterfeits that is is a daunting task for anyone to pick the real one. So are we left to make that choice on our own? Thankfully we are not.
There is a diamond in that pile of broken glass….and only God can help us find it….he is the one who “draws” right hearted ones to his truth and invites them into his spiritual family of worshippers. (John 6:44; 65)

God is searching the human race to find those who are not taken in by the counterfeit, because they see so much that is wrong with the whole hopelessly divided “church” system…..they have carved the Christ up into so many different pieces that the honest hearted ones are sure it’s all a sham. Yet they know that God exists and they pray to him to help them find those whom he has already “drawn” to the truth……the thing is, it is so different to what people have come to accept over many centuries, that the truth looks like a lie…and the lie looks like the truth.

Are you getting an idea of what the big picture looks like? Don’t accept what the majority believe because God’s true worshippers have never been a majority…ever. (Matt 7:13-14) The devil rules this world (1 John 5:19) and so nothing in it is genuine…..it’s all fake….everything we have been taught to trust in it, will prove to be a sad illusion. Right now we are seeing God lifting the lid on the devil’s underworld and seeing world rulership for what it is and who controls it. (Luke 4:5-6) Corruption is inextricably embedded in the whole system….politically, commercially and religiously.

Those waiting for man to solve the world’s problems will be disappointed…..the Lord’s Prayer has God’s solution…..yet most have no idea what they are praying for….
Please tell me what that prayer is all about, since it is the most oft-quoted prayer in existence….

Anyone who is a cessationist will automatically assume where there are miracles/signs of any kind it must be false.

Yes we are to discern and test all things....but keep in mind that Jesus didn't say anywhere we are to walk around in a state of suspiciousness and fear......I don't see where suspiciousness is a fruit of the Spirit, on the contrary that is a miserly kind of attitude that is sometimes mistaken for cleverness. Yes there are false things out there, and tares.........but we are leave the tares and not try to pull them out......LEST WE PULL OUT AND QUENCH WHAT IS TRUE at the same time. God will still use the false to help people....all power belongs to Him in the end....He is still on the throne. But we can discern the fruits - for starters, are they going about quietly doing good or are they stealing the glory and attention for themselves?

Jesus spoke a lot about FAITH, not suspiciousness and fear......that is why He said if we ask for bread He will not give us a stone, if we ask for fish He will not give us a snake, how much more will He give the Holy Spirit to His children who ask. He rebuked and admonished those who didn't have faith for miracles....and His word does not pass away.

Be aware....but our FOCUS should be on the true, not on the false.

 

[Lizbeth]

That doesn’t answer my question…..you look clueless….
Can you not explain Christendom’s most oft repeated prayer?
What did Jesus teach us to pray for?????
Was the question too difficult?!

Is this a competition for cleverness? If you know something that is constructive why don't you just share it. Holding things above others like that is....well it can be discerned what it is.