Why do Premillennialists not believe that 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 refer to the same event?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Peter actually did... HINT... about Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20, when he said the following within description about the end of this world. Most just bypass it as just a tidbit of new info, and do not consider why Peter changed the subject there abruptly...

2 Peter 3:7-10
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
KJV

Right there in those two verses of 2 Peter 3:8-9 he changes the subject to one about God's Patience is wanting to save all peoples. And he even brings up the point of how a literal period of a "thousand years" relates to God's timing.

2 Peter 3:8-9 has absolutely nothing to do with the thousand years of Revelation 20. It has a completely different context. That passage shows how the Lord looks at things from an eternal perspective. A day and a thousand years make no difference to Him at all. Because of that, no one can say He is being slow to keep His promise of returning. That's it. Nothing there whatsoever about the duration of Christ's reign and of Satan's binding.

Furthermore, in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Apostle Paul was referring to Christ's future "thousand years" reign over His enemies. That's what that subject that Christ must reign is about, until all His enemies are made His footstool. How can that happen if all of His enemies are destroyed on the day of His future return like man's false Amil theory says?

You need to read that passage more carefully. That passage describes "the end" when Jesus destroys all of His enemies, including the last enemy, death. There is no hint there whatsoever of Jesus reigning for a thousand years when the end arrives. Instead, it has Him handing the kingdom to the Father at that point.

Even per Revelation 3:9 with Jesus giving His Message to the Church of Philadelphia, a Church that represents His elect, He told them He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come and worship at their feet. That certainly has not happened during this world for His 1st coming, because they instead had Him crucified. That event is for His future Millennial reign over His enemies.

No, that will happen at the judgment and has nothing to do with the thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You ever read for content????
Yes
The church has Not replaced israel.
That is truth.

Yes, it is. Tell me exactly who has claimed that the church has replaced Israel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Completely agree. If Peter knew about an earthly literal millennial reign, why would he only “hint” at it as @Davy said, through mentioning how God is outside of time, not being slow as some count slow to fulfill his promises? Doesn’t really make sense.

That makes no sense whatsoever since 2 Peter 3:8-9 has absolutely nothing to do with the thousand years of Revelation 20.

I Have no idea how God being outside of time (1000 years as a day), and not wanting any to perish = earthly millennial reign.

Neither do I, but it's nothing new for Premills to believe something that makes no sense whatsoever.

It seems more likely the apostles were completely unaware until revelation “revealed” it. Thus premils are filling in the gaps of the epistles/gospels eschaton teachings with knowledge from revelation after the fact.

Right.

 

[Taken]

Did you not read the original post?

I responded to your thread title.

acting like a fool

Better to be charged of acting than Being a fool.

 

[Taken]

it's nothing new for Premills to believe something that makes no sense whatsoever.

Making sense is what satisfies a Carnal Mind.

The spirit is satisfied when they have Spiritual Understanding.

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I responded to your thread title.

Better to be charged of acting than Being a fool.

How about not just reading the threat title and reading the actual post as well?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Making sense is what satisfies a Carnal Mind.

The spirit is satisfied when they have Spiritual Understanding.

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You interpret scripture just like the natural man and it shows in your carnal interpretations. How about you put your money where your mouth is and tell us how you interpret the passages related to this thread?

 

[Taken]

How about not just reading the threat title and reading the actual post as well?

The thread title is specific about premillennialists.
Perhaps One, Some, or All…but factually not one premillennialist Making a Claim in your opening post.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The thread title is specific about premillennialists.
Perhaps One, Some, or All…but factually not one premillennialist Making a Claim in your opening post.

Either go away or tell us how you interpret those passages. Maybe you can show the Premills who don't relate the destruction described in 1 Thess 5:2-3 directly with the destruction described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 how they are the same. Otherwise, you are contributing nothing of value to this thread.

It's a fact that some Premills do not see the two passages as referring to the same destruction because I've seen Premills who say that the heavens and earth are not burned up until 1,000+ years after Christ returns and the "sudden destruction" Paul talks about clearly occurs when Christ returns. Most Premills do not believe that the heavens and earth will be burned up when Jesus returns. None do who take that literally.

 

[Taken]

You interpret scripture just like the natural man and it shows in your carnal interpretations. How about you put your money where your mouth is and tell us how you interpret the passages related to this thread?

You want to Debate a Spiritual timeframe, that Carnally makes sense to your logical mind.

In as much as God offered men WITH God, and such men occupying Earth for 4,000 years…
Christ Jesus has offered men for the past 2,000+ years, who ARE WITH-IN Christ Jesus…
The Same offering…Grace, Redemption, Deliverance.

It is a single moment in Time for an individual man…but NOT a single moment in Time for the Lord…(ie. Day of the Lord).

The Lord in His Day has Been:
Full of Grace, offering Grace;
Redeeming Souls, Offering Redemption of Souls;
Delivering men from Spiritual Destruction, Offering Spiritual Deliverance from Destruction.

Human men are STILL Alive, Reproducing human offspring During Christ Jesus Millennial Reign.

After the Millennial Reign, Human Existence, (living men, whose Life IS Blood, who stand Against the Lord God)…are met with a SERIES of very UNPLEASANT circumstances,
Not limited to a Single “DAY”. )

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You want to Debate a Spiritual timeframe, that Carnally makes sense to your logical mind.

These comments are useless. Are you AFRAID to show how you interpret those passages? Is that why you're just whining and talking nonsense instead of addressing the topic of this thread?

In as much as God offered men WITH God, and such men occupying Earth for 4,000 years…
Christ Jesus has offered men for the past 2,000+ years, who ARE WITH-IN Christ Jesus…
The Same offering…Grace, Redemption, Deliverance.

It is a single moment in Time for an individual man…but NOT a single moment in Time for the Lord…(ie. Day of the Lord).

The Lord in His Day has Been:
Full of Grace, offering Grace;
Redeeming Souls, Offering Redemption of Souls;
Delivering men from Spiritual Destruction, Offering Spiritual Deliverance from Destruction.

Human men are STILL Alive, Reproducing human offspring During Christ Jesus Millennial Reign.

After the Millennial Reign, Human Existence, (living men, whose Life IS Blood, who stand Against the Lord God)…are met with a SERIES of very UNPLEASANT circumstances,
Not limited to a Single “DAY”. )

So, you have no interest in addressing the text found in 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-13? When do you think the "sudden destruction", which Peter describes as occurring by way of fire, occurs exactly in relation to the day that Christ returns as a thief in the night?

 

[Taken]

Either go away or tell us how you interpret those passages. Maybe you can show the Premills who don't relate the destruction described in 1 Thess 5:2-3 directly with the destruction described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 how they are the same. Otherwise, you are contributing nothing of value to this thread.

It's a fact that some Premills do not see the two passages as referring to the same destruction because I've seen Premills who say that the heavens and earth are not burned up until 1,000+ years after Christ returns and the "sudden destruction" Paul talks about clearly occurs when Christ returns. Most Premills do not believe that the heavens and earth will be burned up when Jesus returns. None do who take that literally.

The new World, and they with Only Glorified body’s, Occupy the new World.

Christ Jesus’ millennial reign has a Mix of Glorified men and Natural human men.

Plenty of Destruction occurs “during the 7 years Tribulation”…
Total Destruction, and the World made anew Occurs AFTER
Rapture
During:
The Seals Judgement
The Trumps Judgements
The Woes Judgements
The Bowls Judgements
Wars, physical
The Millennial Reign
Wars, Spiritual
Great White Throne Judgement,
On Earth as it is in Heaven…one Kingdom.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The new World, and they with Only Glorified body’s, Occupy the new World.

I assume you're talking about the new heavens and new earth here.

Christ Jesus’ millennial reign has a Mix of Glorified men and Natural human men.

Do you believe that any natural human men are in His kingdom during that time?

Plenty of Destruction occurs “during the 7 years Tribulation”…

Where do either Peter or Paul indicate that the destruction they describe occurs over a 7 year period of time or over any period of time involving multiple years or even multiple days?

Both Peter and Paul describe the destruction as occurring upon the arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night. So, where do you get the idea that fire is destroying the heavens and the earth for 7 years?

Total Destruction, and the World made anew Occurs AFTER

Where is that indicated in either 1 Thess 5:2-3 or 2 Peter 3:10-12? Each passage describes the destruction as occurring immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord that comes unexpectedly like a thief in the night. Why are you postponing that destruction for 7 years after the day of the Lord first arrives? Paul said the destruction that will occur when the day of the Lord arrives as a thief in the night will be sudden and he indicated that it will be total destruction because he said "they shall not escape". There's nothing sudden about claiming that the total destruction doesn't occur until 7 years after the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly.

 

[Taken]

These comments are useless. Are you AFRAID to show how you interpret those passages? Is that why you're just whining and talking nonsense instead of addressing the topic of this thread?



So, you have no interest in addressing the text found in 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-13? When do you think the "sudden destruction", which Peter describes as occurring by way of fire, occurs exactly in relation to the day that Christ returns as a thief in the night?

Sudden destruction… of What?
Human men?
The Earth?

This sudden destruction of men?
Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

[16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This sudden destruction of men?
Rev 19:
[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Not Secret…but Definitely Sudden Destruction.

This Sudden destruction of the Earth?

2 Pet 3:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

After all is fulfilled…quickly, (as a thief, without Announcement), shall the old be burned and the New Revealed.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sudden destruction… of What?
Human men?
The Earth?

Both. Peter describes the destruction of the heavens, elements and the earth in 2 Peter 3:10-12, right? Paul describes the destruction of those who are in spiritual darkness in 1 Thess 5:2-4. It makes sense that if the earth is destroyed by fire that would include those who are in spiritual darkness and that "they shall not escape" (1 Thess 5:3), right?

This sudden destruction of men?
Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

[16] And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This sudden destruction of men?
Rev 19:
[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Not Secret…but Definitely Sudden Destruction.

Right....

This Sudden destruction of the Earth?

2 Pet 3:
[6] Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

After all is fulfilled…quickly, (as a thief, without Announcement), shall the old be burned and the New Revealed.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that most Premills don't see 1 Thess 5:2-3 as being the same event as 2 Peter 3:10-12. You don't have the destruction described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 as occurring at the same time and being the same destruction described in 1 Thess 5:2-3. I see no basis for that. Both passages describe the destruction as occurring unexpectedly as a thief in the night upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. But, you don't have the destruction described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 as occurring upon the arrival of the day of the Lord, but some time later instead.

 

[Taken]

I assume you're talking about the new heavens and new earth here.

Yes.

Do you believe that any natural human men are in His kingdom during that time?

I believe Christ Jesus’ mellinnial Kingdom is Occupied by Jesus, Saints (already bodily glorified), holy angels…not human men.

Where do either Peter or Paul indicate that the destruction they describe occurs over a 7 year period of time or over any period of time involving multiple years or even multiple days?

Seven is a Time frame…and Time was established for mankind.

Seven is a repetitive number From an intent of a specific prophecy To the fulfillment of a specific prophecy.

The first Earths Destruction (by God)was by Water. The Saved (were few), and “through the door” for SEVEN Days Before the Earths Destruction Began.

Gen 7:
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Gen 7:
[10] And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Gen 7
[16] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.



The next (and last) Earths Destruction (by God) will be by Fire. The Saved (few comparatively to present population), and “through the door” for SEVEN Years Before the Earths Destruction Begins.

John 10:
[7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
[8] All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
[9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Both Peter and Paul describe the destruction as occurring upon the arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night. So, where do you get the idea that fire is destroying the heavens and the earth for 7 years?

Rev 11:
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 13
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Where is that indicated in either 1 Thess 5:2-3 or 2 Peter 3:10-12? Each passage describes the destruction as occurring immediately upon the arrival of the day of the Lord that comes unexpectedly like a thief in the night. Why are you postponing that destruction for 7 years after the day of the Lord first arrives? Paul said the destruction that will occur when the day of the Lord arrives as a thief in the night will be sudden and he indicated that it will be total destruction because he said "they shall not escape". There's nothing sudden about claiming that the total destruction doesn't occur until 7 years after the day of the Lord arrives unexpectedly.

Earthquakes Occurring causes destruction!
Buildings toppling causes destruction!
A forrest burning causes destruction!
Lightening hitting here and there causes destruction!
High Winds Causes Destruction
These things occur now, here and there.
Such thing shall INCREASE here and there in Severity during a seven year time period.


Total Destruction Is caused by the Power of God reigning DOWN FIRE upon the entire Earth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe Christ Jesus’ mellinnial Kingdom is Occupied by Jesus, Saints (already bodily glorified), holy angels…not human men.

Why did you say "Christ Jesus’ millennial reign has a Mix of Glorified men and Natural human men."? You say His millennial reign is over a mix that includes "natural human men" who are not even in His kingdom? How does that make sense exactly?

Seven is a Time frame…and Time was established for mankind.

Seven is a repetitive number From an intent of a specific prophecy To the fulfillment of a specific prophecy.

The first Earths Destruction (by God)was by Water. The Saved (were few), and “through the door” for SEVEN Days Before the Earths Destruction Began.

Gen 7:
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Gen 7:
[10] And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.

Gen 7
[16] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.



The next (and last) Earths Destruction (by God) will be by Fire. The Saved (few comparatively to present population), and “through the door” for SEVEN Years Before the Earths Destruction Begins.

John 10:
[7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
[8] All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
[9] I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.



Rev 11:
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
[3] And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Rev 13
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.


Earthquakes Occurring causes destruction!
Buildings toppling causes destruction!
A forrest burning causes destruction!
Lightening hitting here and there causes destruction!
High Winds Causes Destruction
These things occur now, here and there.
Such thing shall INCREASE here and there in Severity during a seven year time period.

Where is any of this even hinted at in 1 Thess 5:2-3 or 2 Peter 3:10-12?

Total Destruction Is caused by the Power of God reigning DOWN FIRE upon the entire Earth.

And that total destruction will occur suddenly and unexpectedly as a thief in the night upon the arrival of the day of the Lord, according to Peter and Paul. Not 7 years later.

 

[Taken]

Both. Peter describes the destruction of the heavens, elements and the earth in 2 Peter 3:10-12, right? Paul describes the destruction of those who are in spiritual darkness in 1 Thess 5:2-4. It makes sense that if the earth is destroyed by fire that would include those who are in spiritual darkness and that "they shall not escape" (1 Thess 5:3), right?


Right....

Yes.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that most Premills don't see 1 Thess 5:2-3 as being the same event as 2 Peter 3:10-12. You don't have the destruction described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 as occurring at the same time and being the same destruction described in 1 Thess 5:2-3. I see no basis for that. Both passages describe the destruction as occurring unexpectedly as a thief in the night upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. But, you don't have the destruction described in 2 Peter 3:10-12 as occurring upon the arrival of the day of the Lord, but some time later instead.

Hear and there Destruction occurs…
Just as the flood, Began with rain, men moved to higher land.
Rain continued AND some passage of days, underground oceans gushed up quickly covering the Earth, drowning all upon the face of the earth.

Destruction begins here and there.
During those days, men will become Saved (particularly ISRAEL ).
The Fire to destroy All, is the proverbial “closing of the door”.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes.

Hear and there Destruction occurs…
Just as the flood, Began with rain, men moved to higher land.
Rain continued AND some passage of days, underground oceans gushed up quickly covering the Earth, drowning all upon the face of the earth.

Destruction begins here and there.
During those days, men will become Saved (particularly ISRAEL ).
The Fire to destroy All, is the proverbial “closing of the door”.

The destruction that occurs upon the arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night is described by Paul as being "sudden".

sudden (adjective): occurring or done quickly and unexpectedly or without warning.

You turn a sudden destruction event, which is one that happens quickly and unexpectedly, into one that lasts 7 years and happens here and there instead. So, I just completely disagree with how you interpret those passages.

 

[Taken]

Why did you say "Christ Jesus’ millennial reign has a Mix of Glorified men and Natural human men."? You say His millennial reign is over a mix that includes "natural human men" who are not even in His kingdom? How does that make sense exactly?

A remnant of human men, (believers, but not Saved) survive the seals Judgement, the Trumps Judgements…
They repopulate the earth…they build cities, nations, and have Governors (presidents, kings… whatever Title the shall use.)
Their “kings” rule their “nation”, according to Gods WAY, void of the influence of Satan, and With the Influence of Christ Jesus.

Generations live, reproduce, prosper, die…AND, without Satan’s influence, it does not take long, for men to become so blessed, comfortable, getting along between nations, prospering…they begin to Have NO need for the Lord … !!
In short, like today. Greed, Lust, Power thirst develops.
It a man’s own trial, that can not be blamed on Satan.
At the end of the 1.000 yrs, Satan is loosed, allowed back on Earth.
And men who rejected Christ Jesus’ Way… are primed to follow Satan who will convince the Nations to All War Against Christ Jesus Kingdom…( which IS the Land mass of the Land promised to Abraham. )
Bummer they (men) will be destroyed by Fire.

Where is any of this even hinted at in 1 Thess 5:2-3 or 2 Peter 3:10-12?

It is a study to understand how SEVEN plays a prominate role in Gods Role and Works.
How Thick would the Bible be IF Gods time line of Works were repeated over and over…because one did not learn what God accomplished in a short amount of time?

And that total destruction will occur suddenly and unexpectedly as a thief in the night upon the arrival of the day of the Lord, according to Peter and Paul. Not 7 years later.

Not seven years later than what?

Do you understand Tribulations Sent down from Heaven ARE Judgements?
And Why?
The What that occurs during the Seven years is The Lamb of Gods Wrath, the Why is For being Rejected.
The What is Satan’s Wrath, the Why is for being rejected.
The What is Gods Wrath, the why is for being rejected.

Spiritual wrath is Vengeance.
It includes destructions.
Total destruction? No