Yes, they are included as well. Do you include the church (Christians) as the elect as scripture does?
Why do Premillennialists not believe that 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 refer to the same event?
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Taken
Well-Known Member
IF, I said what you claim, why are you speaking FOR ME, Responding TO your Words…
rather than Quoting MY Words, then responding?
According to YOUR specific Understanding…
What IS “the Rapture”?
When IS “the Rapture”?
Who ARE “the Raptured”?
Who “DOES” the Rapturing?
Why “IS a Rapture” Conducted?
Gaslighting!
I expressly Said; I do not know you, or know if you ARE or ARE NOT saved.
Why do you ask? I quoted the express scriptures you had referenced.
No. Where are you getting that nonsense from? It can't be from me.
Say what now? Are you not able to speak English? What in the world are you talking about?
Say what now?
The bodily gathering and being caught up to meet Christ in the air.
At Christ's second coming.
All who belong to Christ which are all believers from all-time.
Christ's angels.
Because fire will be coming down on the entire earth when Jesus returns (2 Peter 3:10-12, 2 Thess 1:7-10), which means it would not make any sense for the church to be left on the earth while that is occurring.
How many times do I need to explain this to you? You indicated that you believed I would miss the rapture and experience God's wrath when you said to me "Enjoy the Trib and Wrath". Only those who are not saved will miss the rapture and experience God's wrath. So, how can you think you weren't saying that I'm not saved by saying that I will miss the rapture and experience God's wrath?
I ask because I can't see that post at this point and don't recall which passages those were. Instead of trying to go back and see what they were, I thought maybe you would know which ones they were and could just tell me.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Now you “include” others as “the ELECT”, who did not Know Christ?
I expressly spoke of The “the ELECT of God”.
And the “the “ELECT’, Through Christ…
And you called that gibberish.
Jesus spoke of those IN “His hand” AND those IN “His Fathers’ Hand”.
(gibberish to you ears.)
Christ Jesus Saves.
God Saves.
They DO NOT Save “the Same men”.
Men are NOT Saved Twice.
Christ Jesus Saves “men who Have “CONFESSED” their belief TO the Lord;
“Before” their “physical Death”.
God Saves “UNCONFESSED” Believing men;
“After” their “physical Death”
The “ELECT” are “ALL” who become MADE Saved, by, through, of Christ Jesus or God.
Taken
Well-Known Member
You mentioned…
Matt 24: 29-31
Mark 13: 24:27
IIn response to you I quoted those Scriptures and Commented about them.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
No. Only those, who Confessed Christ, saved BY Christ, which IS those, Saved By Christ, those who ARE Christs Church.
Ancient profits, believers IN God, (and to this Day), men… Jews AND Gentiles alike…Believe IN God, (some even believe “in” Jesus)…
but DO NOT Believe Jesus IS the Christ…
“They ARE NOT…IN Christ”
“They ARE NOT…Saved BY Christ.”
“They are NOT participants IN “the Rapture”.
You have Jesus’ “coming and return” as the Same Event.
His Coming is to the Clouds to gather His Church up to Him.
Then is there Tribulations and Wrath sent from Heaven upon the earth and it’s inhabitants.
You, placed “yourself” on the Earth, waiting for His Return.
His Return IS after the Wrath of the Lamb…
His Return IS After the Wrath of the Devil…
His Return is After the Woes…
His Return is After the wrath of God…
Jesus…RETURNS to “EARTH”…
Rev 19:11
Satan is bound.
Rev 20:2
Christ Jesus…Occupies / Governs His Earthly Kingdom, 1,000 years,
Rev 20:4
with His “Elect”, His Church, whom He Saved.
This mean being taken out of the way, allowing Satan to be freed. I know you do not believe there will be the satanic world leader just a general antichrist influence. I do not completely figurative revelation entirely.
Satan is spiritually bound by God's power and God uses angels to do that. And why not? There is nothing that says this one-way or the other.
What is spiritual warfare-wrestling that Paul tells us of? Just figurative language too?
All the below is figurative then, it does not actually happen. There are no spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Ephesians 6
The Whole Armor of God
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the [b]wiles of the devil.12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of [c]the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints— 19 and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
The above is spiritual warfare involving celestial beings. They do really exist.
Do you also not believe that demonic possession is real today?
Colossians 3 on the mystery of the church and celestial beings, both evil and good.
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things [c]through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the [d]manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the [e]principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. 13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
Example in acts of demons speaking in Acts 19
All of this taking place is figurative language? Just psychology of the human mind?
No, this is our spiritual reality even today. This happened in Ephesus a gentile city, after Christ ascended to heaven having been given all authority and power. Evil spirits still possess people today.
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, [a]“We [b]exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, [c]overpowered them, and prevailed against [d]them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.
8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things [c]through Jesus Christ;
10 to the intent that now the [d]manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the [e]principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord,
12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. 13 Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
Example in acts of demons speaking in Acts 19
All of this taking place is figurative language? Just psychology of the human mind?
No, this is our spiritual reality even today. This happened in Ephesus a gentile city, after Christ ascended to heaven having been given all authority and power. Evil spirits still possess people today.
11 Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. 13 Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, [a]“We [b]exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”
16 Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, [c]overpowered them, and prevailed against [d]them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed.
All believers from all-time know Christ, including all OT saints. Moses and Elijah know Him and talked to Him at His transfiguration.
You are not easy to follow with your strange way of speaking. Don't blame me for that.
What are you intending to say here? No one but you talks like this. I never said anyone is saved twice. Who are you even talking to here?
What does this mean?
Of course. So, with that in mind, why would you not see Matthew 24:31 as referring to the rapture since the rapture is of all who are saved?
Wow, Scott. You're acting like a Premill here by making all these assumptions about me. Yes, of course, God uses various means of restraining evil, including his angels and the preaching of the gospel. But, it's all by the power of the Holy Spirit. NEVER did I say that angels don't exist. Good grief.
You have no idea of what you're talking about. There is no other name by which anyone can be saved except through Jesus (John 14:6, Acts 4:12). You think anyone is saved apart from Christ? No way! You are clueless if you think that. He is the only way to be saved. Moses and Elijah talked with Jesus at His transfiguration, but you think they are not in Christ and saved by Christ. Nonsense.
Yes, of course, because scripture does.
Right.
Yes, and Paul said "sudden destruction" will come upon them from which "they shall not escape" (1 Thess 5:2-3). Peter said fire will come down upon them all (2 Peter 3:10-12), so it's no wonder Paul said "they shall not escape".
Of course, Are you not waiting for His glorious return when He comes from heaven and we are caught up to meet Him in the air?
No, He returns to deliver His wrath. Hello? What Bible are you using? Must be a different one than I'm using.
2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Can you see here that the same day He meets us and is glorified in His saints and admired in all them that believe, He sends His wrath upon unbelievers? Is this passage in your Bible? It's the same thing Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:3.
Yep.
It's after the first and second woe (fifth and sixth trumpets) and occurs at the time of the third woe which is the seventh trumpet.
Wrong. None of this lines up with the rest of scripture. Do you bother making sure your interpretations of Revelation 19 and 20 don't contradict other scriptures? Apparently not.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Oh, that's nothing but BALDERDASH!
If what you are saying above were true, then NO ONE would have EVER properly understood The Word of God! That's how LUDICRIOUS your silly excuse is.
So it's OBVIOUS to me that you are not really interested in learning God's Truth as written in His Word, but you instead like to focus on what is POPULAR, like some 'new thing'. I don't have time for that ignorance.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your Response to:
Christ’s “coming”
And
Jesus’ “return”
Coming is traveling toward destination.
Clouds.
Return is having reached destination.
Earth.
Not a mystery!
Taken
Well-Known Member
I said Jesus Saves.
God Saves.
I did not mention a NAME.
Both save by the Name JESUS.
Taken
Well-Known Member
No. I am not waiting for His RETURN “To the EARTH”, for me to be caught up IN THE AIR.
I am waiting For His Coming From High Heaven, to the Clouds UP IN the Air for me To be caught UP “from the Earth to the Clouds, To meet Him in the Air, and Return TO EARTH, WITH Him”!
He is IN Heaven “Sending Down His Tribulations and Wrath…”
You are saying HE Is “on Earth” while delivering TO Earth His Tribulations and Wrath. Nope.
You are out of sequence.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your response to:
Christ Jesus Saves “men who Have “CONFESSED” their belief TO the Lord;
“Before” their “physical Death”.
God Saves “UNCONFESSED” Believing men;
“After” their “physical Death”
Some “ARE Saved” “by Christ” ( before they physically die )
Some “SHALL be Saved” “by God” (after their physical death )
Basic knowledge revealed in Scripture.
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