Why Antiochus Epiphanes IV Is Not The Little Horn - Part I: "in the latter time of their kingdom"

[Douggg]

Just because you keep posting your work of creating charts, it does not mean that your charts are right.

Perhaps y you need to clean the wax out of your ears. Please prooooooooooooooovide the context of why you consider your charts to be right

Goodbye

The posting of charts in and of that action alone does not mean the charts are correct. I agree.

That particular chart, I should probably start a thread and explain the context of the chart of why it is correct. Thanks for the suggestion.

Now get a hair cut and trim the beard, and you may discover you yourself have ears which to clean the wax out of.

 

[Phoneman777]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Try to communicate by copying and pasting the specific bible verses you are referring to.

The 2300 days in Daniel 8 are 2300 days, not 2300 years.

Sorry, I'll break it down:

• Daniel knew that the Babylonian captivity would last 70 years.
• At the time Daniel had the 2300 Days vision, the captivity was almost over.
• 2300 literal Days is just over 6 years.

QUESTION: Why would Daniel - God's vision/dream interpretation champ - pass out and remain sick for a number of days after being told what he already knew - that there would be a mere 6+ more years left of captivity/temple desolation, only to recover and then go around asking others what the vision meant? Because after 60+ years, he could have done the remaining 6 years standing on his head, right?

ANSWER: What freaked Daniel out was that he understood the 2300 Days were symbolic days for literal years - he thought the additional 2,300 years of temple desolatio referred to the temple in Jerusalem.

So, in chapter 9, Gabriel came to clear up his confusion about the 2300 Days with the 70 Weeks which he says are "cut off" from the 2300 Days, where the people would return to their land and "restore and build Jerusalem".

Remember, there were prophecies of Daniel that were "shut up to the time of the end" and and it was indeed at "the time of the end" in the 19th century when people finally began to understand what "unto 2,300 Days then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" meant: it was referring to the Heavenly Sanctuary wherein is our High Priest Jesus, not the Jerusalem temple as Daniel thought when he passed out.

 

[Douggg]

No, Daniel understood that 2300 Days were symbolic days for literal years and that's why he freaked out - he thought the additional 2,300 years of temple desolation referred to the temple in Jerusalem.

No, the text does not say that is why Daniel fainted in last verse of Daniel 8, verse 27.

Daniel appears to be already sick at the time he received the vision. In verse 3, Daniel lifts up his eyes - i.e. like someone resting, lying down sick.

3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

Then later in Daniel 8, Daniel seems to have fainted in verses 16-18 when Gabriel approached him, but Gabriel revives him....

16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.

At the end of Daniel 8, after being told that the 2300 days of the little horn at the time of the end was far into the future, Daniel, overcome with his sickness faints, and remains sick for several days.

Verse 27 indicates that after getting over the sickness, Daniel told others about the experience he had, but no one else understood it either.

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business;and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

------------------------------------------------------------
At a later time, in Daniel 9, Daniel was again visited by Gabriel. Verse 21, Daniel is referring to his experience he had with Gabriel, regarding the 2300 day vision. Which Daniel never really understood.

21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Gabriel then tells Daniel that he has come to help Daniel understand that vision better and when it will take place. The 2300 days vision involved the stopping of the daily sacrifice during that time, by the little horn person.

And also to inform Daniel regarding the matter of the 70 years of exile, and there would be 7 x 70 years before everything will be settled between God and Daniel's people the Jews, as well as status of Jerusalem.

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

So in Daniel 9:27 would be that final 7 years, which the 2300 days vision of the little horn's, time of the end, activities will take place. Which the little horn will stop the daily sacrifice.

 

[Jay Ross]

Now get a hair cut and trim the beard, and you may discover you yourself have ears which to clean the wax out of.

Ah Douggg, basing your comment to get a haircut and to trim my beard, let me tell you that you are basing your comments on a Pic that was taken a number of years ago and is not a true representation of how I look today shows how far you will go to try and put another person down. Today my hair is whiter and has been cut short for a number of years. As for my beard, it is regularly trimmed.

If your defence of your charts is to tell someone else to get their haircut and beard trimmed them there must be little substance in your so-called End Time Charts,

Now if the Daniel 8, 2,300 years of the Little Horn trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts started around 260 to 250 BC, then we can expect it to come to the prophecies completion sometime in the 2040 to 2050 period.

Now from the historical record we know that the 7th Bowl judgement predominately played out during the 20th century and that the three frog like spirits that came out of the mouths of Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet of the sixth bowl judgement came and did their signs and wonders, which the whole world saw as the signs unfolded to begin the drawing of the Kings of the earth to assemble at the place of their judgement at Armageddon, occurred on the single day of 9-11-2001. The assembling of the Kings of the earth at Armageddon to be judge at the same time as the heavenly hosts are judged in heaven was foretold in Isaiah 24:21-22 and that the judged kings of the earth and the judged heavenly hosts would be gathered together and imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. When Satan and His fellow rebelling heavenly hosts are kicked out of heaven and imprisoned in a pit we know that Satan was among those that were imprisoned and in Revelation 20:1-3 we also know that as soon as Satan's feet touched the surface of the earth that and Angel grabbed Satan and imprisoned him in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years after which time the Bottomless Pit will be unlocked to release the Kings of the earth first to torment the people who did not have the God's mark upon their forehead to then be followed by the imprisoned beasts and the false Prophet and Satan.

Now, if as I am suggesting that an age/generation is around 1,024 years long and the Bottomless Pit is not unlocked until the beginning of the 1,001 year, then many of the signs foretold in the Bible that will happen during the last little while will occur over a 24-year period. Now since your chart only shows a time span of seven solar year, I can only assume that your understanding of the time span of the last age before Christ Comes is flawed.

As soon as Satan is released from the Bottomless pit, He goes to his good and faithful servants in both the Parables of the Minas and the Talents to receive back the money he had given to his good and faithful servants plus the increase that they achieved while Satan was imprisoned in the abyss. In both parables on of his servants challenged Satan that he was not entitled to the increase neither did this servant trade with the money had had been given but the third servant had kept the money safe and returned the money he had received in accordance with the law of Israel. Satan was disappointed with this servant and informed him that he could have given the money to bankers and that at least he would have received interest on the money that the servant had held.

Then in the Luke 19 parable of the Minas in verse 27 Satan then commands this, "And these enemies of mine who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me." This same circumstance of Satan going after the people of the nation of Israel is also told to us in Rev 12 and that when Satan was not successful in killing the Israelites he then turns his attention to the Christian and goes after them as well in Rev 12;17

Rev 12: 17And the dragon was enraged at the woman and then went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea.

Douggg is this not setting out a timeline from the beginning of the Seventh age up and until Satan start to travel across the world heading towards Jerusalem.

Since this is becoming a long post, it is probably best that I stop at this point since we do not know the timeframe of Satan going over the earth and travelling towards Jerusalem.

Goodbye

 

[Douggg]

Now if the Daniel 8, 2,300 years of the Little Horn trampling God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts started around 260 to 250 BC, then we can expect it to come to the prophecies completion sometime in the 2040 to 2050 period.

The text of Daniel 8 :14 says 2300 days, not years.

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

 

[Jay Ross]

The text of Daniel 8 :14 says 2300 days, not years.

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Douggg if the Macabee Revolt happened around 160-150 BC, when did the trampling of the Israelites, i.e., God's earthly hosts, end? Are the Israelites still being trampled today?

The historical record would confirm that the Israel people have been trampled from around 160-150 BC right up to this present timeframe.

The Islamic desire to wipe Israel from the face of the earth from the sea to the river is part of the Daniel 8 prophetic words concerning Isarel being trampled by the gentile armies.

The 2,300 days cannot stretch from 260-250 BC to the present day.

Your understanding does not stand up to any examinations.

Goodbye.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg if the Macabee Revolt happened around 160-150 BC, when did the trampling of the Israelites, i.e., God's earthly hosts, end? Are the Israelites still being trampled today?

Jay, please start referencing the specific bible passage you are referring to when discussing eschatology matters.

I am assuming the trampling you are referring to is in Daniel 8:10.

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

The little horn person in Daniel 8:9, coming from north and west of Israel, will do the trampling. It will take place during the 2300 days at the time of the end, Daniel 8:17. During the forthcoming, near at hand, 7year 70th week
of Daniel 9:27.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

Next go to Revelation 11:2...

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The temple (to be built) mount is going to be occupied by the armies of the little horn person, and for the last forty two months of his time, having become the beast-king, his armies will control Jerusalem after the power of the Jews will have been broken, Daniel 12:7.

Now if you look at my diagram, each of those bible references and time frames are shown. The first item is about the trampling of Jerusalem, coinciding with Daniel's people under duress, as the little horn person stamps on them (Daniel 8:10)

 

[Douggg]

The Islamic desire to wipe Israel from the face of the earth from the sea to the river is part of the Daniel 8 prophetic words concerning Isarel being trampled by the gentile armies.

The 2,300 days cannot stretch from 260-250 BC to the present day.

Your understanding does not stand up to any examinations.

Of course not, as the 2300 days are not 2300 years. The 2300 days to take place at the time of end, during the 7 year, 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The Muslims have nothing to do with the 2300 days.

The Muslims will be a part of the Gog/Magog event that immediately precedes the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

But after the Gog/Magog event, the Muslims and Islam will no longer be a factor in the 7 year 70th week. Islam essentially will end with the Gog/Magog event.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg is this not setting out a timeline from the beginning of the Seventh age up and until Satan start to travel across the world heading towards Jerusalem.

Jay, you are doing a dissertation not a timeline.

timelines show segments of time on them, and are of a graphical nature.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, please start referencing the specific bible passage you are referring to when discussing eschatology matters.

I am assuming the trampling you are referring to is in Daniel 8:10.

Douggg you have not answered the question that you quoted from my post which was: -

Douggg if the Macabee Revolt happened around 160-150 BC, when did the trampling of the Israelites, i.e., God's earthly hosts, end? Are the Israelites still being trampled today?

The historical record would confirm that the Israel people have been trampled from around 160-150 BC right up to this present timeframe.

The Islamic desire to wipe Israel from the face of the earth from the sea to the river is part of the Daniel 8 prophetic words concerning Isarel being trampled by the gentile armies.

The 2,300 days cannot stretch from 260-250 BC to the present day.

Your understanding does not stand up to any examinations.

In my post quoted above I clearly stated that I believe that Israel is still being trampled by the army presently given to the Little Horn at this present time.

But instead, you went on about your personal; belief that the trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, as outlined in Daniel 8, will occur in our distant future over 1,000 years from now.

Douggg it is so sad that your contrived understanding does not aline with the scriptures.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Of course not, as the 2300 days are not 2300 years. The 2300 days to take place at the time of end, during the 7 year, 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The Muslims have nothing to do with the 2300 days.

The Muslims will be a part of the Gog/Magog event that immediately precedes the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

But after the Gog/Magog event, the Muslims and Islam will no longer be a factor in the 7 year 70th week. Islam essentially will end with the Gog/Magog event.

Sadly, Douggg this is your private imagination working overtime on your pet theory that does not match scripture at all.

Goodbye

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, you are doing a dissertation not a timeline.

timelines show segments of time on them, and are of a graphical nature.

Whatever Douggg, the dissertation I presented in my post covered just over the first 1,000 of the Seventh Age.

Did the dissertation contain any error in what was posted?

Now to show what you want graphically over 190 mm on an A4 page, would have all of the little while period crunched up in the 4.5 mm section of the right-hand side of the graphically representation of the last age and would be pointless.

Also, there is a lot of time stamps missing which does not allow for a spatial graphical representation of the end times to be accurately presented.

Goodbye Douggg

 

[Douggg]

But instead, you went on about your personal; belief that the trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts, as outlined in Daniel 8, will occur in our distant future over 1,000 years from now.

Jay, I said no such thing. The Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38/39 will take place before the end of 2030.

Followed by the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9. The 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 is shown on my diagram.

 

[Jay Ross]

Jay, I said no such thing. The Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38/39 will take place before the end of 2030.

Followed by the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9. The 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9 is shown on my diagram.


View attachment 46808

Douggg, you are being weirder than I first imagined. Many Christians believe that the rapture will occur shortly and that shortly after that they will return with Christ to rule the earth with Him.

It is my view that the return of Christ out of the clouds with all of the heavenly hosts will occur around the end of the Seventh Age.

Oh well waiting another six years plus for your predicted return of Christ before 2030 AD is not long to wait for your theories to be WPB'ed by most people.

It will be enjoyable to see your face of disbelief when Christ does not return on the clouds like he ascended into heaven at the end of the first advent.

Goodbye you crazy person.

 

[Douggg]

Now to show what you want graphically over 190 mm on an A4 page, would have all of the little while period crunched up in the 4.5 mm section of the right-hand side of the graphically representation of the last age and would be pointless.

Create a completely separate table using Excel for the seven year, seventh week.

If you do it to scale, make an inch represent one year. Therefore when done the table would be 7 inches wide.

None of my charts are to scale exactly, but approximately. If made to scale, then a timeframe like 3 1/2 days would show as a thin vertical line.

Back in my working days, 30 years ago, as an engineer I made scaled drawings routinely using Autocad. But I am not recommending that for anyone here. What I recommend is Corel Paintshop Pro because of its cheaper cost and can be used to make picture like scenes as well.

Personally, I would never use Excel. But to each his own, I guess.

Just to do something to display a timeline of end times events in a post.

 

[Jay Ross]

Create a completely separate table using Excel

Yes, I have done that for the scriptures, from Genesis 1:1 to Revelations 22:21

As for trying to represent events that just might fit within the time span of Daniel 7:27 is just simply foolishness on your part as the considered end times timeframe has been considered to span over 3,000 years or three ages/generations.

In Matt 24:34, Jesus was not referencing a descendant generation but rather a timespan of just over 1,000 years or an age.

There have been so many flawed misunderstandings of the prophetic prophecies contained in the scriptures that your understanding of the end times neatly fit into this web of deceit of the false commentators of the scriptures.

Douggg, it is you who has to provide the evidence to demonstrate that your pet theories of your imagination are right, and as a "qualified" engineer, you know that not every postulated theory of engineering proved to be right.

I worked with an engineer who had completed a PHD but his understanding of actual engineering led to many application mistakes in the design of nominal 25 MPa outlet piping of piston compressor networks because he forgot the phenomena of fatigue and the stress limitation that fatigue placed on materials where many installations had to be reworked because of his desire to save a little money by using a thinner gauge of SS tubing.

What I have learnt over the years is that it is futile to try and resolve every apparent problem that we come across, particularly with respect to biblical prophecy because not every issue has a precise engineering solution.

Forcing apparently similar prophecies together into the one timeframe span has issues as the relationships and interdependencies between the various prophetic passages of scriptures is not always as clear cut as you are suggesting in your "graphical" representations.

Douggg, if you were to consider the problems facing the likes of the USA and Australia where in scripture do you believe the answers can be found. This is a more pressing dilemma facing the USA and Australia and many other countries as well, that needs to be explained and what steps that needs to be taken to resolve the problems that we are faced with like climate change, and plagues etc. quickly and cleanly.

I believe that Jeremiah 50-51 provides the information as to why we are facing the problems that have rapidly fallen on our respective nations and that 2 Chronicles 7 provides the solution to the problems that we as people have created.

Dougggg, the issues facing the world at this very moment are far more important than what might befall the human population of the earth some 1,000 + years in the future. If we can place a solution before the world now that shows us a way forward, then the issues that will come during the Little While Period at the end of the seventh age will be able to be faced in a similar manner.

Your charts are not helping to solve the problems that we all are facing now.

Goodbye.

 

[Douggg]

Dougggg, the issues facing the world at this very moment are far more important than what might befall the human population of the earth some 1,000 + years in the future.

Sounds like you are looking for some super hero to solve all the world's problems. Guess who that is going to be ? The number of his name is 666.

The events of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27 are near at hand, not a thousand years into the future. My graphs and charts are focused on eternal consequences.

Matthew 24:
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

My impression is that most people of the world are not concerned about eschatology. What is your impression of that ?

My motivation is based on that I love God and am interested in everything He does.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, the text does not say that is why Daniel fainted in last verse of Daniel 8, verse 27.

Daniel appears to be already sick at the time he received the vision. In verse 3, Daniel lifts up his eyes - i.e. like someone resting, lying down sick.

The text does not say that! It says he fainted and was sick at the end of the vision - not that he was already sick at the beginning. He lifted up his eyes as one who gazes, not as one who languishes.

Then later in Daniel 8, Daniel seems to have fainted in verses 16-18 when Gabriel approached him, but Gabriel revives him....

Signs accompany those upon whom the Lord comes in vision (Numbers 24:4 KJV) - they fall weak, then are made strong, their eyes remain open, and there is no breath in them yet.

At the end of Daniel 8, after being told that the 2300 days of the little horn at the time of the end was far into the future, Daniel, overcome with his sickness faints, and remains sick for several days.

No thinking person considers 2300 days of continued temple pollution the "distant future" nor any reason for Daniel to have a nervous breakdown. However, 2300 years of that absolutely qualifies.

Gabriel then tells Daniel that he has come to help Daniel understand that vision better and when it will take place. The 2300 days vision involved the stopping of the daily sacrifice during that time, by the little horn person.

"Sacrifice" is not in the original Hebrew. The Little Horn takes away the "daily" ("tamid") which refers to the entire ceremonial sacrificial system - not just burnt offerings - and no one argues Antiochus took that away.

And also to inform Daniel regarding the matter of the 70 years of exile, and there would be 7 x 70 years before everything will be settled between God and Daniel's people the Jews, as well as status of Jerusalem.

Every single one of you miss this:

The angel cleared up Daniel's confusion by showing him that the temple that would suffer another 2300 years of pollution was not the temple in Jerusalem, the city which the people would return from Babylon "to restore and to rebuild".

So in Daniel 9:27 would be that final 7 years, which the 2300 days vision of the little horn's, time of the end, activities will take place. Which the little horn will stop the daily sacrifice.

Good gravy, man, the 70 Weeks are "cut off" ("chatak") from something, and the only other Numerically Specific Time Prophecy within a mile of them the 2300 Days. How you gonna cut off 490 years from 6.3 years?

 

[tailgator]

The little horn is the Israeli government which scripture shows will persecute the saints in Israel for 42 months before the coming of Christ.

The other ten horns are Muslim nations we which dwell in the kingdom with the little horn .

The little horn is described as appearing stouter than it's fellows and it appears to be different or diverse.



Daniel 7

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.



This kingdom after being given to the saints is often referd to as the millennial kingdom.

 

[Jay Ross]

Sounds like you are looking for some super hero to solve all the world's problems. Guess who that is going to be ? The number of his name is 666.

What you just posted, quoted above, demonstrates that you are not a worthy disciple of Christ or God.

Goodbye.