What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?

[Behold]

Trust in Christ means trust in what He taught us to do.

That has no bearing on why God will save you, or accept you, or keep you.

So, you are talking only about deeds YOU DO>...., and not about the Cross as WHY God will accept you and keep you.

You are only describing trying to keep this, and do that, and be "good", but you are not even beginning to hint that you understand why JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS.

Did you want to try to even attempt to explain it?

Why did Jesus shed His blood ?
Why did He do that ?
What does this Accomplish?
what does it SOLVE, @Pancho Frijoles

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

What you are trying to prove, is that you can have God's Grace, by trying to be good,

No, my brother: I am not trying to prove that. First of all, because I do not believe that.

 

[Behold]

is falling from grace.

Falling from Grace has nothing to do with the sabbath.

"falling from Grace"....means that the BELIEVER, who use to trust in Christ, to save them and keep them saved.......now does not believe that Jesus Keeps them saved..
So, they are trying to do that, by works, and commandment keeping, and any other type of self effort, because they have lost faith in Christ and are become SELF-Righteous, which is to become "in the Flesh"..

That is how you FALL........from GRACE.......as GRACE is...."God has saved you, and that settles it"......into......well, now im trying to do that, im trying to STAY SAVED"..

And that is how you FALL, from faith in Christ to Faith in SELF, and that is to "fall from Grace".

 

[BarneyFife]

You said that about me., @BarneyFife
I didnt stay that at all.....

Listen,
I "ascribe to " the born again believer having become a "new Creation in Christ"... now = "made righteous", having become "The Righteousness of God In Christ"...

An excellent way to teach this.......is .:

The Cross is where God delivered your sin upon Jesus,.. as "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"... and Jesus's Righteousness became the eternal life of the Born Again Believer.
This is the "Gift of Righteousness"...

So, this RIGHTEOUSNESS, is God's "Gift of Righteousness"...... and you can't earn that or keep it.

And once you are "made righteousness".. then you are to do what Paul teaches..

"Present your Body, as a Living Sacrifice to GOD.. as your reasonable SERVICE"..

"Service"..

So, the born again are to do that, not to try to stay saved, nor to try to be saved...

The Born again do this because they are born again, "in Christ" and now they are to provide that "service" to God, because God has SAVED THEM, based on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.

Heretics, try to do the Service, without the Spiritual Birth, and that is why they talk about works and good deeds, but never about the Cross or about God's righteousness. And that is because they can't discuss what they don't yet possess... so they instead talk about their SELF righteous.......all their good deeds.........all their. ..... "ME ME ME ME ME, look at all that im doing that i say is GOOD GOOD GOOD works".

See that?



Paul teaches..

Romans 12:1



Christ was not imputed His own Righteousness, as He was not a sinner who needed God's Gift of Righteousness.

Christ was sinless, .. He was alway Righteous, Holy, and perfect., under the Law.



Jesus is God's very righteousness, created as a Virgin Born Human.
So, when we Trust in Christ, God takes that "Christ's Righteousness" and we become it, as a "new Creation" "In Christ".

Welcome to : Salvation.

Its "the Gift of Righteousness">

All of this hair splitting just makes me want to take a nap. I didn't say you don't believe in imparted righteousness—I put it in the form of a question.

And now you have gone to Olympian lengths to try and make sure that justification is seen to be held in far higher regard by you than sanctification.

It must be exhausting.

I don't envy you.

To me, the grace of God that makes us do good is every bit as wonderful and necessary and powerful and blessed as that which pronounces us good.

In fact, I barely distinguish them at all.

It's interesting. For 35 years you must have seen legalism cause untold tangible and awful ruin to souls and in 34 years, I've seen practically none.

.

 

[Behold]

No, my brother: I am not trying to prove that. First of all, because I do not believe that.

You are only describing """ trying be "good", but you are not even beginning to hint that you understand why JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS.

Did you want to try to even attempt to explain it, even using your former Catholic teaching???

Why did Jesus shed His blood ?
Why did He do that ?
What does this Accomplish?
what does it SOLVE, and when did this happen for YOU ?? @Pancho Frijoles

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Falling from Grace has nothing to do with the sabbath.

"falling from Grace"....means that the BELIEVER, who use to trust in Christ, to save them and keep them saved.......now does not believe that Jesus Keeps them saved..
So, they are trying to do that, by works, and commandment keeping, and any other type of self effort, because they have lost faith in Christ and are become SELF-Righteous, which is to become "in the Flesh"..

That is how you FALL........from GRACE.......as GRACE is...."God has saved you, and that settles it"......into......well, now im trying to do that, im trying to STAY SAVED"..

And that is how you FALL, from faith in Christ to Faith in SELF, and that is to "fall from Grace".

Would you agree or disagree with the following statement:

If a patient who was treated for the lethal infection and left the hospital starts eating healthy, working and doing exercise, that shows that he distrusts the physician who cured him.

 

[Behold]

It's interesting. For 35 years you must have seen legalism cause untold tangible and awful ruin to souls and in 34 years, I've seen practically none.

How many Calvinists are on this forum. ????????????/
They are now THAT, and that is because someone led them there.
They were not that on the day of their Born again Birth.

Understand @BarneyFife .

A.) Doctrines of Devils......>Hebrews 13:9, came and GOT THEM..

And this polite and friendly member you are not concerned about.. He was a Catholic before He is this latest religion.
What will he be next?

You dont understand why, or care?

Ok, enjoy your nap.

 

[Behold]

Would you agree or disagree with the following statement:

When did you realize that you are a sinner, and you needed to be forgiven all your sin? @Pancho Frijoles

What did you do once you realized this about yourself?

When did that happen?

Day,
month,
year?

 

[BarneyFife]

No... we can advise anyone about doing any thing that we think will help that person to get closer to God. But....

Looking down into those who keep Sunday, as if they were more distant from God, future persecutors of Sabbath-keepers who will be destroyed by fire for their disobedience, is falling from grace. The very thing Paul fought against in his letters.

Where's the yardstick for this?

Because at the first mention of the 4th commandment, you invariably get people who insist you've crossed over into "looked down on" territory—it literally never fails.

Folks can argue about nearly any other issue and the "judgment/condemnation" accusations are nowhere to be found.

All people can tell me is that they don't want to hear it and that I should be ashamed for bringing it up.

The 4th commandment is a Christian orphan that can never hope to find a home in Christian discussion.

Please don't respond with the usual platitudes.

.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

When did you realize that you are a sinner, and you needed to be forgiven all your sin? @Pancho Frijoles

What did you do once you realized this about yourself?

When did that happen?

Day,
month,
year?

July 2019.

 

[GTW27]

Would you agree or disagree with the following statement:

If a patient who was treated for the lethal infection and left the hospital starts eating healthy, working and doing exercise, that shows that he distrusts the physician who cured him.

Blessings Pancho! A reading for you. 1 Corinthians chapter 13. There are many who call themselves "Christians". There are those that are about Christ Jesus which is the majority, and there are those in Christ Jesus. Any good work that I would do would be out of love, the love that can only be found when in Christ Jesus. When Jesus was here, He said that His Father is always working. And this we read about. He also said, Greater works than these will you do. I find no fault in people that keep the Sabbath. In the beginning of my journey I did the same. But then came the day that I was weaned from the milk, and The Lord turned the page from the old testament unto the new. And the deep(Hard sayings) things of Paul, The Lord illuminated. Today I can honestly say, everyday I rest(Sabbath) in The Lord, (Christ Jesus) as I know my own works are as filthy rags before The Lord. I can also say that my Father is always working through me as He see's fit. This is His design as all Glory Honor and Praise belong to Him and Him alone.

 

[BarneyFife]

No... we can advise anyone about doing any thing that we think will help that person to get closer to God. But....

Looking down into those who keep Sunday, as if they were more distant from God, future persecutors of Sabbath-keepers who will be destroyed by fire for their disobedience, is falling from grace. The very thing Paul fought against in his letters.

"No...
But..."

is not a very good answer, btw.

.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

"No...
But..."

is not a very good answer, btw.

.

Well, sometimes advise is given in good faith. Sometimes it is not.

Perhaps some of the early Christian Jews advised the Greeks in good faith to keep the Sabbath and other festivities.
To those sincere Jewish Christians, Greek Christians could feel free to say "Thanks, I will" or "Thanks, I won't", without affecting the relationship between the two groups.

But for sure other Jews were giving an "advise" from a position of superiority, with a clear expectation for Greeks to follow the advise or else considered not good enough to be followers of Jesus.

Paul was concerned about not making judgements based on those things.
Greeks shouldn't despise Jews, and Jews shouldn't despise Greeks. They were a single body under Christ, subject to the same Gospel.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Where's the yardstick for this?

I'm not sure, but I think the yardstick is love.
If you keep loving a person regardless of his decision to abstain from work the first or the seventh day of the week, I guess you are acting under the grace of God.
What does "loving a person" mean? Well, the description is in 1 Corinthians 13.

I suppose that Paul had detected clear signs of lack of love between converts from Jewish vs Gentile backgrounds, that made him write vigorously in order to bring them back to unity.

If you love me and I love you, we can hold a friendly discussion about whether we should be observing the seventh day of the week or not.
We may end up agreeing or disagreeing, and we will act to each other as members of the same family, and wishing each other the blessings of God.

If I don't love you, then I will start trying to make you feel less holy than me, or less intelligent than me, because you don't accept my arguments. I will express my doubts about your honesty, and will warn you on your eternal destruction, as if you deserved it due to your stubbornness. I will start avoiding contact with you, and making a circle of friends (which excludes you) with those who share my beliefs on the subject.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

The 4th commandment is a Christian orphan that can never hope to find a home in Christian discussion.

I get your point. I was a Seventh Day Adventist myself for about 6 years.
Not all SDAs think of Sunday-keeping Christians as disobedient, future persecutors, and recipients of "the mark of the beast".
Many SDAs keep Sabbath out of the spiritual benefits of it. Benefits that I experienced as a SDA. These SDAs invite other people to keep the Sabbath because they want them to enjoy the same benefits. That's wonderful. Nobody should judge that as bad.

In addition to that, the theological discussion on the Sabbath could be really healthy, if kept under the framework of brotherhood.
It may enlighten Sunday-keeping Christians to realize that neither Jesus nor Paul asked Christians to replace Sabbath by Sunday. That Sunday is kept out of a tradition, born very soon, in the first decades of Christianity.
It may enlighten Sabbath-keeping Christians to realize that Paul didn't expect converts from Greek origin to keep the Sabbath.
It will enlighten both to think why God demands what He demands, and what commandment takes priority over other commandment.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

How many Calvinists are on this forum. ????????????/
They are now THAT, and that is because someone led them there.
They were not that on the day of their Born again Birth.

Understand @BarneyFife .

A.) Doctrines of Devils......>Hebrews 13:9, came and GOT THEM..

And this polite and friendly member you are not concerned about.. He was a Catholic before He is this latest religion.
What will he be next?

You dont understand why, or care?

Ok, enjoy your nap.

This is the Christian Apologetics sub-Forum in which non-Christians are allowed to reply.
It is named "Apologetics", which means you can train yourself on defending your beliefs from those who think differently, and learn something in the process.

What is the spiritual state of those members who became Calvinists? Are they away from God or dammed for having become Calvinists?
If not, what is your concern, then?
Please think twice before you answer: again, this is an Apologetics subforum, and I may challenge your views very vigorously. I will NOT remain indifferent to any unjustified judgment made in a public Internet space against a Calvinist brother or sister.

 

[Peterlag]

Sins being forgiven, are not the result of living a good life.

You would do well to consider, that what God perceives as a "good life" is not what you indicate.

Paul told us...
"""as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”..


So, you are stating that your attempt to try to be "good".. .whatever that means, is proof to you, that What Paul stated that is true, is not true.
And that you, of yourself, believe that you can commit deeds, that prove you are "good", when in fact :"all have sinned".

So, if you bleed goodness out of your eyeballs...if you give your body to be burned for the poor, if you live your life on your knees to provide food for street orphans, for the next 80 yrs, until you dropped dead, you are a SINNER doing this....when you died... @Pancho Frijoles

And those SINS of yours, have not BEEN FORGIVEN, by all your 'trying to be good"., and your opinion, and your religion, cannot change what God has determined regarding all who have been born on this earth.

Paul did not tell us. He's referring to Jews and Gentiles...

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

 

[Behold]

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Your verse defines the status of a non-born again unbeliever.

Whereas the Born again are "made righteous", having received "the Gift of Righteousness", or the "imputed righteousness".

The Purpose of The Cross is for Jesus to die on it for the sin of the world and as the unbelievers, one at a time... come to faith in Christ, the sacrifice of Jesus's blood and death on The Cross deals with their, our, your sin.

And now being made free from sin because "God hath made Jesus to be SIN for us".... then God is able to Join Himself to the forgiven believer, which results in the birth of the believers spirit as : Born again.

This is to become "IN Christ".. "One with God"... as a "new Creation".

A.) This is the CHRISTian.

 

[Peterlag]

Your verse defines the status of a non-born again unbeliever.

Whereas the Born again are "made righteous", having received "the Gift of Righteousness", or the "imputed righteousness".

The Purpose of The Cross is for Jesus to die on it for the sin of the world and as the unbelievers, one at a time... come to faith in Christ, the sacrifice of Jesus's blood and death on The Cross deals with their, our, your sin.

And now being made free from sin because "God hath made Jesus to be SIN for us".... then God is able to Join Himself to the forgiven believer, which results in the birth of the believers spirit as : Born again.

This is to become "IN Christ".. "One with God"... as a "new Creation".

A.) This is the CHRISTian.

This the verse that you are referring to is taken out of context and was first mentioned by you. I'm simply saying it is referring to the Jews and Gentiles and not the Christian.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

 

[The Learner]

not keeping up