What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?

[Earburner]

This is a real issue for T believers as it's his sonship and the name God has given him which holds the saving power and not Deity!

F2F

Yet on the same note, we find that Deity does become the Seal of our salvation.

Rom. 8:8-11
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

John 14[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

 

[quietthinker]

So when will you lift you eyes and start widening your view? Will you continue to be a cloud without water? At what point will you enter the Word and learn wisdom rather than these valueless throw away lines?

F2F

Oh f2f, you are so full of your own rightness and faulty judgement, it is not possible to have an objective discussion with you. You revert to your perceived superior position at each attempt.

 

[quietthinker]

The appeasement that is required by God of all sinners, is that they first repent towards God, and then BELIEVE in the shed blood of Christ, for the forgiveness/removal of all their sins.

God does not require appeasement. That idea is directly from the pagan handbook.

However, I guess, using the principle you have stated above that when your children offend you make them pay dearly. Love it appears, in your definition, makes the offender seriously bleed.

 

[Earburner]

God does not require appeasement. That idea is directly from the pagan handbook.

However, I guess, using the principle you have stated above that when your children offend you make them pay dearly. Love it appears, in your definition, makes the offender seriously bleed.

The form of repentance that God requires is repentance TOWARDS God Himself. It is the Greek word: "metanoeo"- to have  ANOTHER mind**. It is the only form of repentance by which one shall receive God's Grace through faith in Jesus, for His forgiveness of all sin.

The other form of repentance is when one repents FROM sin. The Greek word for that form of repentance is: "metanoia"- to have a CHANGE of mind.
By that form of repentance, it is only within one's own human mind to choose not to commit a sin.

** Note: Rom. 8:9; 1Cor. 2:16

So then, if one does not appease* God by performing the correct form of repentance that is required of God, they cannot "please" God, nor can He act on their behalf for His forgiveness of their sins.

*appease- Merriam-Webster dictionary:
to bring to a state of peace or quiet : calm
appease a quarrel.
Rom. 8:9; Eph. 2:15,16; James 4:4.

 

[quietthinker]

The form of repentance that God requires is repentance TOWARDS God Himself. It is the Greek word: "metanoeo"- to have  ANOTHER mind. It is the only form of repentance by which one shall receive God's Grace through faith in Jesus, for His forgiveness of all sin.

The other form of repentance is when one repents FROM sin. The Greek word for that form of repentance is: "metanoia"- to have a CHANGE of mind.
By that form of repentance, it is only within one's own human mind to choose not to commit a sin.

So then, if one does not appease God by performing the correct form of repentance that is required of God, they cannot "please" God, nor can He act on their behalf for His forgiveness of their sins.

I doubt love is technical. Love is vulnerable and because of that, 'messy'. It weeps with patience (long suffering) and sighs paying little respect to man's technicalities.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello to the original poster,

Unbelief; no desire to seek the things of God. There are three resurrections, resurrection of condemnation, resurrection of life, and resurrection which is better than the normal. There are two descriptions of destinations in Heaven which all go to, be it outside the kingdom, or inside the kingdom.


A little short story;

I use to belittle and not take God or Jesus seriously. I hated them both. I thought I was God and when I left this life I would make my own reality. Eventually I come up to the age of 26; and this old man talked about some of the stories Jesus had told. It made me reconsider my prior position; I was condemned for my past decisions of running away from God. And started to seek out who Jesus was. I’ve now believe a believer for the past 6-7 years, since then now at the age of 33. I’m imperfect and I don’t have the condemnation of my prior decisions on me because they were all passed over by God himself thanks to Jesus taking care of the sin.

Gathering:
In the end, though there are two destinations, either being away from God or near to God; I don’t believe those away from God are necessarily suffering as Yahavah is going to give them what they want in the first place as he is the judge of the heart itself.

 

[Earburner]

I doubt love is technical. Love is vulnerable and because of that, 'messy'. It weeps with patience (long suffering) and sighs paying little respect to man's technicalities.

From your understanding, what does God patiently wait for in His longsuffering?

 

[Earburner]

God does not require appeasement. That idea is directly from the pagan handbook.

However, I guess, using the principle you have stated above that when your children offend you make them pay dearly. Love it appears, in your definition, makes the offender seriously bleed.

You are assuming that all people are a child of God. That right there, really is directly from the pagan handbook.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?

The basis for the unbeliever's condemnation are... the Words of The Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

God condemns each person who enters this world with positional condemnation (i.e., in Adam

No. He has in mind a remnant ( His Sheep), the "elect", whom He will save. They are ordained to be saved. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith and so we are not born condemned. We are all born sinners.

With this positional condemnation, we are immediately born qualified to be the recipients of God's grace and mercy. This is illustrated in Rom 11.32.

Not all are His sheep.

The other condemnation is 'eternal' condemnation. This is what happens when a person rejects Christ as Savior, see Matt 12.37. A person is eternally condemned by rejecting Jesus as Savior.

I don't adhere to the phrase "eternal condmenation". Aionios has variable meanings. When applied to this temporal realm and thi gs that will pass away, it means age, lifetime, generation, epoch. When applying it to God, His domain our salvation, then it means forward in time infinitely, without end.
The Lake of Fire is the death of both soul and spirit, the end , destroyed and no longer existing. That's what death is. God gives us a sense of the meaning without physical deaths and so it will be with the souls who are not saved.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Gehenna).
Matt. 10:28

 

[quietthinker]

From your understanding, what does God patiently wait for in His longsuffering?

That all men should come to a knowledge of his kindness ie, Salvation

 

[KUWN]

No. He has in mind a remnant ( His Sheep), the "elect", whom He will save. They are ordained to be saved. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith and so we are not born condemned. We are all born sinners.

Not all are His sheep.

I don't adhere to the phrase "eternal condmenation". Aionios has variable meanings. When applied to this temporal realm and thi gs that will pass away, it means age, lifetime, generation, epoch. When applying it to God, His domain our salvation, then it means forward in time infinitely, without end.
The Lake of Fire is the death of both soul and spirit, the end , destroyed and no longer existing. That's what death is. God gives us a sense of the meaning without physical deaths and so it will be with the souls who are not saved.
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Gehenna).
Matt. 10:28

Ronald, sorry but I don't reply to Reformed students. I thank you for taking the time to respond. God Bless

 

[face2face]

Oh f2f, you are so full of your own rightness and faulty judgement, it is not possible to have an objective discussion with you. You revert to your perceived superior position at each attempt.

Quiet, we have never had a discussion to my knowledge. I've tried many times, but you say things which are in opposition to Gods Word and when corrected, you retreat.

You will recall how you spoke against Acts 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

You couldnt bring yourself to accept God offered up Christ by the hands of wicked men.

Then we talked about Romans 3:25 which you strongly refuted...

whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

And I could list a lot more verses which you wont even look at, not for a second before covering them with your own false reasoning.

Every single time I've tried to get you to enter the Word of God you poo poo it for fear of becoming a navel gazer, lol (your words not mine!)

So don't say "its not possible to have an objective discussion", be honest and admit you hold to error and you don't want the Word to correct you. This has nothing to do with me and everything to do with your resistant approach to the Word.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Quiet, we have never had a discussion to my knowledge. I've tried many times, but you say things which are in opposition to Gods Word and when corrected, you retreat.

You will recall how you spoke against Acts 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

You couldnt bring yourself to accept God offered up Christ by the hands of wicked men.

Then we talked about Romans 3:25 which you strongly refuted...

whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

And I could list a lot more verses which you wont even look at, not for a second before covering them with your own false reasoning.

Every single time I've tried to get you to enter the Word of God you poo poo it for fear of becoming a navel gazer, lol (your words not mine!)

So don't say "its not possible to have an objective discussion", be honest and admit you hold to error and you don't want the Word to correct you. This has nothing to do with me and everything to do with your resistant approach to the Word.

F2F

hmmmmm

 

[Earburner]

That all men should come to a knowledge of his kindness ie, Salvation

Yes, all SHOULD come to Jesus, but we know that since Jesus Ascended into heaven, in every generation since then, there have been many who have neglected and rejected the Savior, and therefore have died in their sins.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes, all SHOULD come to Jesus, but we know that since Jesus Ascended into heaven, in every generation since then, there have been many who have neglected and rejected the Savior, and therefore have died in their sins.

long suffering = patiently waiting.....and he will wait till we nigh destroy ourselves as a planet/ people....then, the rescue mission which all God's people long for.

 

[face2face]

God does not require appeasement. That idea is directly from the pagan handbook.

However, I guess, using the principle you have stated above that when your children offend you make them pay dearly. Love it appears, in your definition, makes the offender seriously bleed.

Appeasement is not a good word to use as it implies God is angry and this is not the case. @Earburner God requires obedience and love and that is all. While God can be angry, this is not the method of reconciling the world to Himself.

God revealed through His Son what he delights in and Paul recorded this for our learning: Psalm 40:7–8; Hebrews 10:5–10; John 10:18; Philippians 2:8

F2F

 

[face2face]

hmmmmm

Maybe this is close as you can get to being honest?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Ronald, sorry but I don't reply to Reformed students. I thank you for taking the time to respond. God Bless

I am not a Calvinist; but it is your perogative to misjudge and disregard me.
God Bless

 

[Earburner]

No. He has in mind a remnant ( His Sheep), the "elect", whom He will save. They are ordained to be saved. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our faith and so we are not born condemned. We are all born sinners.

No! No one is pre-ordained to be saved. Only Jesus was pre-ordained for the giving of the Gift of God's salvation, which is Jesus Himself.
He, who is the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world, was freely GIVEN to ALL OF US (the world), so that "whosoever will" may come to God in repentance, having free access to God's free Gift of His salvation, by having faith in Jesus.