The tree of Knowledge and the tree of Life are the same tree, per Jewish rabbis.
Looking at the Statement of Faith
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Agree. That selfishness is what we inherit from our forebears, and it is that selfishness that motivates our sinfulness. Otherwise known as our carnal nature, or flesh. Jesus was born with the nature of His forebears. He proved however throughout His life that such a nature inherited from His fathers could be overcome, and sin not inevitable.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Satan tempted no-one to eat of the tree of life. I don't care what Jewish rabbis taught. They taught Jesus had a demon and was worthy of crucifixion. I don't recognise their authority.
Yet selfishness can also be self-preservation. God guided Jesus to his death and resurrection. We are not all ourselves expected to be as good.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The forgiveness of sin, is "imputed"...by God.
This means that God has to do it for each person..........as its not automatic as the deceived and lying Universalists teach.
See, the forgiveness of sin, is the "imputed righteousness".. and that means it has to be delivered//received.
This means that when you BELIEVE in Jesus, the our "faith, is counted".......and THEN God "imputes" the sacrificial forgiveness that is achieved 2000 yrs ago by Christ on the Cross unto each BELIEVER.. one at a time.
God requires that we "obey the Gospel"........and when we do, then He "imputes".. He delivers to the BELIEVER, forgiveness that is based on what Christ has finished on The Cross as the Blood Atonement.
So, the Salvation that Jesus has accomplished, is accomplished, but its not "IMPUTED".. its not DELIVERED to a person, until they "obey the Gospel"..
How do you obey the Gospel? ??????????
A.) = You BELIEVE IT., or as Jesus explains.. "All who BELIEVE IN ME.. i give unto them, Eternal life, and they shall never go to Hell (perish)".
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
So you believe you can live in sin and still be saved?
And, God did not create babies and put sin in them.... no, we all sinned AFTER we got here having been influenced by this dark world... nobody was born a sinner.
Those that believe they were born sinners use that excuse to believe they cannot stop sinning and so... they claim to be "christians" as they live as sinners and they will not go where they think they are going when they croak someday.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Do you recognize when a command is “conditional” @KUWN ?
Free willed beings were given choices. The choice they had in the beginning was very simple….God placed two trees in the garden….one was life giving….the other was death dealing…but the conditions were plainly stated…..eat of the forbidden tree and die….or obey the Creator and access to the life giving tree would be the reward for their free willed obedience. They would live forever in paradise on earth. (Gen 3:22-24)
These are called consequences and we know what they are in our everyday choices. Every decision we make entails consequences…..some are minor, but others can be life changing.
The first humans had all the trees in the garden to choose from, so imposing a restriction on only one of them would cause them no distress or disadvantage at all…..until a third party appeared and promoted the belief that the death dealing tree was really just an eye opener. The notion that God was holding back knowledge that they deserved to know, and eating that fruit would be of benefit to them, seemed to make sense to the inexperienced woman.
She fell for that lie and was “thoroughly deceived” as the devil planned, because Adam was not with her to advise her differently. When he came and saw what she had done, he knew what the consequences were and had to make a life changing decision either way…..he could join her in rebellion, knowing that the death sentence would apply to both of them….or he could refuse the offer of his wife and remain obedient to his God, losing her to death. We know what choice he made…..and the consequences of that choice still affect us as his offspring, to this day, even though Christ died almost 2000 years ago to pay for our sins. (Rom 5:12)
Do you know why we still die if Jesus paid for our redemption all those centuries ago?
Do we really know what “death” is?
Most people in this world serve the devil…even those who think that they are serving God. (1 John 5:19) He has the “whole world” under his control…so where is God in all of that?
What was the first lie that the devil told the woman? “You surely will not die”…..was he right? She did not die straight away because the fruit itself was not poisonous, but it represented God’s Sovereignty in deciding for man what was good and what was evil. With that knowledge unleashed, what has been the result?
Down through history have we not seen “man’s inhumanity to man”, starting with Cain’s cold blooded murder of his own brother out of jealousy….and in the conflicts and wars of the nations and the heinous weapons that they have developed to annihilate one another…..these are seen as “good” in the eyes of the ones participating…..the more death dealing their weaponry, the better they like themselves and feel superior to their enemies…..but what is God seeing with sadness? The consequences of Adam’s sin played out on the pages of history, saturated with blood and filled with human suffering…the very thing God wanted to protect them from.
What have we learned through Gods permission of evil in the world? He has shown us first hand what happens when we disobey him…..are we still disobeying him?
The devil will get his comeuppance….but he will delight in taking as many down with him into “the lake of fire”, (everlasting death) as he can deceive. “The second death” is permanent.
I’m sorry but your ideas do not hold water under scrutiny….the Bible provides the answers to all our questions, if we can identify the truth when we hear it….only God can reveal it. (John 6:44; 65)
Free willed beings were given choices. The choice they had in the beginning was very simple….God placed two trees in the garden….one was life giving….the other was death dealing…but the conditions were plainly stated…..eat of the forbidden tree and die….or obey the Creator and access to the life giving tree would be the reward for their free willed obedience. They would live forever in paradise on earth. (Gen 3:22-24)
These are called consequences and we know what they are in our everyday choices. Every decision we make entails consequences…..some are minor, but others can be life changing.
The first humans had all the trees in the garden to choose from, so imposing a restriction on only one of them would cause them no distress or disadvantage at all…..until a third party appeared and promoted the belief that the death dealing tree was really just an eye opener. The notion that God was holding back knowledge that they deserved to know, and eating that fruit would be of benefit to them, seemed to make sense to the inexperienced woman.
She fell for that lie and was “thoroughly deceived” as the devil planned, because Adam was not with her to advise her differently. When he came and saw what she had done, he knew what the consequences were and had to make a life changing decision either way…..he could join her in rebellion, knowing that the death sentence would apply to both of them….or he could refuse the offer of his wife and remain obedient to his God, losing her to death. We know what choice he made…..and the consequences of that choice still affect us as his offspring, to this day, even though Christ died almost 2000 years ago to pay for our sins. (Rom 5:12)
Do you know why we still die if Jesus paid for our redemption all those centuries ago?
Do we really know what “death” is?
Most people in this world serve the devil…even those who think that they are serving God. (1 John 5:19) He has the “whole world” under his control…so where is God in all of that?
What was the first lie that the devil told the woman? “You surely will not die”…..was he right? She did not die straight away because the fruit itself was not poisonous, but it represented God’s Sovereignty in deciding for man what was good and what was evil. With that knowledge unleashed, what has been the result?
Down through history have we not seen “man’s inhumanity to man”, starting with Cain’s cold blooded murder of his own brother out of jealousy….and in the conflicts and wars of the nations and the heinous weapons that they have developed to annihilate one another…..these are seen as “good” in the eyes of the ones participating…..the more death dealing their weaponry, the better they like themselves and feel superior to their enemies…..but what is God seeing with sadness? The consequences of Adam’s sin played out on the pages of history, saturated with blood and filled with human suffering…the very thing God wanted to protect them from.
What have we learned through Gods permission of evil in the world? He has shown us first hand what happens when we disobey him…..are we still disobeying him?
The devil will get his comeuppance….but he will delight in taking as many down with him into “the lake of fire”, (everlasting death) as he can deceive. “The second death” is permanent.
I’m sorry but your ideas do not hold water under scrutiny….the Bible provides the answers to all our questions, if we can identify the truth when we hear it….only God can reveal it. (John 6:44; 65)
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
jewish rabbis can say as they please . This is not at all the truth . They were different trees indeed .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
sound it out to the last breath my friend . The one true gospel continues to be under attack .
Many no longer desire and want to even believe ONE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST
they desire a false love fable that has made the road very broad indeed . YOU SOUND out all reminders
of the absolute dire necessity TO BELIEVE on JESUS THE CHRIST .
JESUS is eternal life and only those who BELIEVE ON HIM have eternal life , all else shall perish . Jesus taught this
the apostels taught this , WE teach this . no compromise , no retreat and no surrender . Forward march .
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Once ignorance is recognised, wisdom does not argue with it.
Proverbs 26:4-5 – Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes. The self-confident fool thinks too highly of himself and his opinions, and he shares them freely.
Proverbs 26:4-5 – Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes. The self-confident fool thinks too highly of himself and his opinions, and he shares them freely.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
and it sure is FOLLY to give out false hope to the world .
Better we preach the DIRE NEED to beleive ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
Cause the ALLMIGHTY GOD and creator of all
HAS HIMSELF purposed how to save the world .
GOD chose by the PREACHING of the GOSPEL to save those ...................WHO BELEIVE .
all who hear and yet beleive not WILL BE damned .
THERE IS no other hope , no other love , no other name
that can save . SO i do highly suggest we do preach that name
with the DIRE REMINDER of BELIEVING ON HIM .
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
If someone handed you (gave) a pound of pure gold, would you take it?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
A gift is a gift . Of course i would . yet so many sure seem to reject
the TRUTH , which i promise is of far greater value than all rubies and all gold .
SO , Lets remind Even the mass majority of christendom who has fast fallen for a false love
That Offering up any other hope , any other thought , OTHER THAN THE DIRE NEED to BELIEVE JESUS THE CHRIST
well IT WONT BODE WELL at all and it all ends very badly for such who do so .
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Firstly, I wasn't asking you what other people would do, I was asking you.
Secondly, you said you would take it. Recognising its value, would you need to be told to take it?
Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how many commands are and a couple of examples.
Did you know that there were no eternal consequences to Adam and Eve's sin?
Aunty Jane, you were all over the place when you replied to this post. I guarantee you that you didn't know that all unbelievers have been redeemed. So, to answer this naive question, being redeemed does not equate to death. I can tell by your writing that you have not read much theology (including Systematic Theology). Do you have a earned degree in Theology?
GJohn 12.32 should be considered here, don't you think.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
That's not what Jesus said... Jesus said unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God (John 3:3)
Meaning, they shall not be spending eternity with the Lord so they'll be going to hell for eternity... unless they get born again and walk in agreement with the Lord during this life.
That's the false doctrine of universalism which is what some believe who are on their way to hell as they are not born again believers.
Systematic Theology is demonic.... nothing but scripture twisting while ignoring the whole counsel of God.
Those that have been to bible college or seminary have been indoctrinated with the false doctrines of false teachers such as Calvin, Luther, and the catholic cults.
Draw all men unto Him does not mean all are automatically saved.... you should learn top accept the whole counsel of God and stop being a cherry picker....Cherry pickers are purveyors of false doctrine
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I was prompted to answer this..
No!!!....I would not!....it could be stolen .....I would want to know the ins and outs of why they were giving this gold to a complete stranger.
My gut / conscience would tell me not to take it, that imo goes without saying....or another way I would look at it, the Spirit Of God who indwells my spirit would be warning me not to take the pound of pure gold...
Some who were in the flesh would probably take it....those in the Spirit,I believe would certainly not take it....just my thoughts....
In fact if someone offered me a pound of pure gold ,” now” I would go straight to the authorities and report the person who tried to give it to me.
Mind you, they would probably flee....LOL, so the police would have no chance of catching them...
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Well, the one I alluded to was the one where God told the first man that he was not to eat of the fruit of just one tree in the garden….that command, if he broke it, had consequences…death.
Every law that carried the death penalty was conditional….just because God said not to do something, didn’t mean that humans could not disobey him….they could choose their actions based on their ability to weigh up the pros and cons of carrying out a certain activity….. or not.
Even the laws that do not carry the death penalty, still exacted justice in some way….consequences.
Well that is true, because when the fall took place, God had the solution already sorted….
Isa 55:11 tells us…..
”So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do.”
God had a purpose in creating the physical Universe and in putting living beings upon our beautifully prepared planet. Making humans in his own image meant giving them his qualities because he was going to allow them the wonderful task of filling the earth with their children and, using the garden of Eden as a blueprint, transforming the whole planet into a beautiful paradise, for them to enjoy forever.
That all depends on how you define a “believer”…and whether you understand what redemption is…
And you would be correct…..I have never studied theology because theology is the study of religious (church) doctrine…..I am a Bible student and avoid theology like the plague. Theology is what created Christendom…the most disunited excuse for Christianity in existence….I am grateful not to be shackled by their phony doctrines and removed myself from that institution over 50 years ago. Bible study has given me the complete picture of why we are here, and where we are going in the future.
What you believe makes no sense to me….
If you say so….but let’s consider another verse that tells us something similar….
Rom 5:18-19….
”Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.” (ESV)
Is there a difference between the “many” and “all”? We know that sin was our inheritance because the Bible says so…and no one dodged that bullet except Jesus Christ…..it was the whole reason for his coming as our savior. So how many people did Jesus die for? All mankind…..but will all mankind be saved? That is not what the Bible says is it?
When Jesus comes as judge to separate the “sheep form the goats”….what happen to the “goats” as opposed to what happens to the ”sheep”?
You tell me.…Matt 25:31-46….
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