Looking at the Statement of Faith

[KUWN]

"We support the biblical teaching that all people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally."

I can not find one passage that states inherited sin makes someone destined to Hell.
I have argued out here before that sins have nothing to due with getting saved or being eternally condemned.

All sins have been paid for and all people are redeemed according to Peter, Paul, and John. But, redemption does not qualify one for salvation, a person needs to accept Christ to be saved. Children are not lost because they are not able to accept Christ.
Christ said that: And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander will be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Paul says: "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."
Every sin you have committed was not put on your account. Each sin was imputed to Christ's account, and he paid the penalty for all sins on the Cross.

 

[marks]

All sins have been paid for and all people are redeemed according to Peter, Paul, and John. But, redemption does not qualify one for salvation, a person needs to accept Christ to be saved.

Redeemed? Or reconciled? I've understood all to be reconciled to God, but that we need to receive the reconciliation, and until then, the redemption doesn't apply. No?

Much love!

 

[Jay Ross]

I can not find one passage that states inherited sin makes someone destined to Hell.

Have you considered Gen 2:17 when properly translated. It states that is we "sin," then we will "die the second death."

In other words, we become candidates for the second death at the time of the GWTR Judgement.

God also told us in Ezekiel 18 that if we repent of our sins and keep His statutes, that we will not die the second death but will have life after the GWTR Judgement when we are revealed as being righteous in the Book of Life.

 

[marks]

Ephesians 2:1-8 LITV
1) and you being dead in deviations and sins,
2) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience,
3) among whom we also all conducted ourselves in times past in the lusts of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of the understanding, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest.
4) But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5) even we being dead in deviations, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are being saved),
6) and raised us up together and seated us together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
7) that He might demonstrate in the ages coming on, the exceeding great riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8) For by grace you are saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God;

I understand that all of us were dead in sins, being by our very nature children of wrath, all of us. Those who are saved by grace through faith, that is, those who believe, not the unbeliever, just the believing, these are raised to life, which is equated to our salvation.

It seems to me that this passage is based in the premise that we all have a nature that puts us under God's condemnation, and this is described as "dead in trespasses and sins".

The question becomes, where did the death come from? Do we each of us spiritually die, if you will, the first time we sin? Or is it passed to us in our humanity?

Romans 5:15 LITV
15) But the free gift is not also like the deviation. For if by the deviation of the one the many died, much more the grace of God, and the gift in grace, which is of the one Man, Jesus Christ, did abound to the many.

From this I understand that we all died with Adam, being, as it were, "in the loins of Adam", just as Levi paid tithe to Melchizedek "being in the loins of Abraham".

Much love!

 

[KUWN]

Have you considered Gen 2:17 when properly translated. It states that is we "sin," then we will "die the second death."

In other words, we become candidates for the second death at the time of the GWTR Judgement.

God also told us in Ezekiel 18 that if we repent of our sins and keep His statutes, that we will not die the second death but will have life after the GWTR Judgement when we are revealed as being righteous in the Book of Life.

Jay, I have several posts out here where I explain why sin is not an issue at the Rewards Ceremony, or at the GWT judgment. I will give you a few verses to look at. 2 Peter 2:1, 2 Cor 5:19, and 1 John 2:2. In case you overlook it, the unbelievers have been redeemed. See 2 Peter 2:1 for that one. Note that those who do not believe in Christ are considered redeemed partly because all sins of all humanity has been paid for, and No, this statement by Paul is not IF you believe. That the unbelievers are forgiven of their sins seems very awkward to you, I presume. But because all sins have been paid for, we can now preach the good news, Gospel.

Look up some of my other posts and you will get a better understanding. I already know how you will respond, but do any way.

 

[marks]

Paul says: "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."
Every sin you have committed was not put on your account. Each sin was imputed to Christ's account, and he paid the penalty for all sins on the Cross.

Agree, God has fully reconciled the world to Himself, meaning that everything that was against us, that separated us, every impediment, was fully and completely removed, so that from God's side, nothing whatsoever prevents us from coming to Him.

Being forgiven however is not the same as receiving life, and only those counted among the living, no longer dead in sin, but now alive in Christ, those whose names remain written in the Book of Life. The saved are those who have received life in Christ, having believed in Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Revelation 5:9 LITV
9) And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy are You to receive the scroll, and to open its seals, because You were slain, and by Your blood purchased us to God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

Is this indicating that men are redeemed out of the general mass of humanity who remain unredeemed?

Much love!

 

[KUWN]

It seems to me that this passage is based in the premise that we all have a nature that puts us under God's condemnation, and this is described as "dead in trespasses and sins".

What about this condemnation. we were condemned so that God could have mercy on us. see Rm 11.32

 

[marks]

What about this condemnation. we were condemned so that God could have mercy on us. see Rm 11.32

Are you saying that God will show mercy to all the condemned, that is, universal salvation?

Much love!

 

[KUWN]

Have you considered Gen 2:17 when properly translated. It states that is we "sin," then we will "die the second death." ]

The consequences for Adam's sin, if you look in Gen., are related to this life. The consequences of Eve's was also related to this life, nothing eternal.

Are you saying that God will show mercy to all the condemned, that is, universal salvation?

Showing mercy need not have anything to do with Salvation. God is a merciful God by nature. When all those people are case into the Lake of Fire, God will still be a merciful God. The mercy shown by God Is more likely sending His Son to die for all human beings. Another mercy he has shown is taking on all sins and imputed them to Christ. God extended his mercy to all unbelievers by eliminating all barriers to a relationship for all who ask Christ to become their Savior.

 

[Bob Estey]

"We support the biblical teaching that all people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally."

I can not find one passage that states inherited sin makes someone destined to Hell.
I have argued out here before that sins have nothing to due with getting saved or being eternally condemned.

All sins have been paid for and all people are redeemed according to Peter, Paul, and John. But, redemption does not qualify one for salvation, a person needs to accept Christ to be saved. Children are not lost because they are not able to accept Christ.
Christ said that: And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander will be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Paul says: "God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."
Every sin you have committed was not put on your account. Each sin was imputed to Christ's account, and he paid the penalty for all sins on the Cross.

I don't think the Lord judges me according to someone else's sin, though I've committed plenty of my own sin.

 

[KUWN]

God also told us in Ezekiel 18 that if we repent of our sins and keep His statutes, that we will not die the second death but will have life after the GWTR Judgement when we are revealed as being righteous in the Book of Life.

Can you give me the verse for this?

 

[Brakelite]

Redeemed? Or reconciled? I've understood all to be reconciled to God, but that we need to receive the reconciliation, and until then, the redemption doesn't apply. No? Was,

Much love!

I agree. If the price was paid for our redemption, and it was, “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; ”
Ephesians 1:7 KJV
Unfeigned Bible,
then like the slaves of 19th century America, although they could legally walk free, it wasn't quite that easy. The emancipation papers may have been signed, the slaves were no longer legally enslaved, but they had to wait until the full realisation of that redemption before they could confidently declare themselves free...
“13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. ”
Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

“27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. ”
Luke 21:27-28 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Brakelite]

"We support the biblical teaching that all people are born with inherited sin and are lost eternally."

I can not find one passage that states inherited sin makes someone destined to Hell.

I agree with you here. This is a version of original sin. We are not condemned for the sins of our fathers, although the hereditary effects of those sins do impact our lives...eg alcoholism and drug addiction have hereditary impact on offspring for several generations, although in God's mercy and grace, that cycle of generational sin can be broken through Jesus.
The wages of our own sin is death. We do not die for the sins of our fathers.

 

[Brakelite]

Ephesians 2:1-8 LITV
1) and you being dead in deviations and sins,
2) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience,
3) among whom we also all conducted ourselves in times past in the lusts of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of the understanding, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest.
4) But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5) even we being dead in deviations, He made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are being saved),
6) and raised us up together and seated us together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
7) that He might demonstrate in the ages coming on, the exceeding great riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8) For by grace you are saved, through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God;

I understand that all of us were dead in sins, being by our very nature children of wrath, all of us. Those who are saved by grace through faith, that is, those who believe, not the unbeliever, just the believing, these are raised to life, which is equated to our salvation.

It seems to me that this passage is based in the premise that we all have a nature that puts us under God's condemnation, and this is described as "dead in trespasses and sins".

The question becomes, where did the death come from? Do we each of us spiritually die, if you will, the first time we sin? Or is it passed to us in our humanity?

Romans 5:15 LITV
15) But the free gift is not also like the deviation. For if by the deviation of the one the many died, much more the grace of God, and the gift in grace, which is of the one Man, Jesus Christ, did abound to the many.

From this I understand that we all died with Adam, being, as it were, "in the loins of Adam", just as Levi paid tithe to Melchizedek "being in the loins of Abraham".

Much love!

It is age old conundrum. Are we sinners because we sin...or do we sin because we're sinners?

 

[quietthinker]

It is age old conundrum. Are we sinners because we sin...or do we sin because we're sinners?

Selfishness is what defines a sinner and we are saddled with this from birth.
Any parent will tell you about the difficult nights of sleep they get when babies are small.
We learn to modify the gime gime gime drive by clever approaches but the fundamental drive is still there.

 

[MonoBiblical]

My personal observation is this. Adam and Eve gained sight by eating from a tree which is also the tree of life. To rebalance things, we had to die. Cain was not kicked out of the garden until he killed able, perhaps. But after that, no one gets free contact with God.

 

[quietthinker]

My personal observation is this. Adam and Eve gained sight by eating from a tree which is also the tree of life. To rebalance things, we had to die. Cain was not kicked out of the garden until he killed able, perhaps. But after that, no one gets free contact with God.

With respect MB, you need to refresh your views by reading the Genesis record again.

 

[MonoBiblical]

With respect MB, you need to refresh your views by reading the Genesis record again.

It was a fall from favor. Favor not grace was the fall. Did not Eve's open when she ate it first?

 

[Brakelite]

It was a fall from favor. Favor not grace was the fall. Did not Eve's open when she ate it first?

Eve did not eat of the tree of life. There were two trees in the garden. Eve ate of that tree which was forbidden... The tree of Knowledge. And if she had eaten of the tree of life after sinning, she, and us, would have become immortal sinners. Thankfully God set angels to guard the tree of life so that no sinner could live forever.