WHAT DOES IT MEAN WIVES ARE TO BE OBEDIENT TO THEIR HUSBANDS?

[MA2444]

Someone needs to actually visit Jerusalem to know what they are talking about.

Also....
The prelude to this is a Qual (type of Hebrew clause) that directly explains why David was in the wrong place at the wrong time....IE: he should have been elsewhere.

Yep, he should've been sleeping like a good King!

Actually I got that info from some Pastor that (knows greek) and has been to Jerusalem. I said balcony but I guess it was the roof that David seen her from. David was able to see down and that's why he seen her.

 

[Rockerduck]

She was not a hoe.

I think all women bath nekkid dont they?
She wasnt bathing where everyone could see her. Bath tubs were kept on the roof in those days and they would fill it with water in the morning and let it sit in the sun all day to get warm, then they bathe in the evening before the husband gets home from work.

King David occupied the hill in Jerusalem and so was on the highest point of the city and he could come out on his balcony and look down and see Bathsheba's house down below.

She could have had a shower curtain all around it (or quilts) so no one could see her yet King David could still over and down. Just because she had to be hot doesnt mean she was a hoe. Women knew their lesser place amongst men back then. She was prolly very obedient to her husband...but when the King sends for you, what do you expect her to do? Say no? No, you go before the king. And David really liked what he saw so he said, I'd like some cootchie from you....Now what is that girl supposed to say? NO? To the King?! Living in a time when making a king mad can get your head chopped off?! I dont think so Brother.

Times was different then, you dont turn down your own King. She had no real choice unlike all these *independant* women nowadays.

You didn't read any protest from her in the bible, but she didn't mind after her husband died to move in and marry David and have 4 children with him. Apparently, they loved each other mutually.

 

[JohnDB]

Yep, he should've been sleeping like a good King!

Actually I got that info from some Pastor that (knows greek) and has been to Jerusalem. I said balcony but I guess it was the roof that David seen her from. David was able to see down and that's why he seen her.

You need to go back and read the scriptures.
This is in Hebrew because it's Old Testament. And it was before he built his house/palace. The timeline is not that difficult to understand. The preceeding scriptures makes it clear.

 

[Grailhunter]

The following verse is under consideration.

[Tit 2:5 KJV] 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Is this verse saying that wives have to obey their husbands without question?

Let us examine other verses to determine the meaning of Titus 2:5 and what it means to be obedient.

[Rom 6:17 KJV] 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Believers are to be obedient to the doctrine, the teachings and instructions. Doctrine was delivered to the church the Body of Christ by Christ through Paul. The church finds it's instruction in the epistles of the Apostle Paul.

[1Co 14:37 KJV] 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

The church is to acknowledge that what Paul has written in his epistles are the commandments delivered by Christ to the church and are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:21 KJV] 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

We are to submit ourselves unto the commandments of God which dictate how we relate one to another. It determines our conduct one to another.

[2Th 3:14 KJV] 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Paul's epistles are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:22-24 KJV] 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

Wives are to submit unto their own husbands by obeying the commandments set forth in the epistles of Paul. They are to behave toward their husbands as commanded by the Lord Jesus. The husband portrays Christ as the head of the church in marriage. The wife portrays the church.

[Eph 5:33 KJV] 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

This is one example of the commandments set forth for wives to obey. She is to reverence her husband because he is positioned as her head just as Christ is head of the church.

[Col 3:13 KJV] 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.

She is to obey all the commandments that pertain to the church the body of Christ toward her husband as well.

Wives are to obey the commandments set forth by the Lord as pertaining to their conduct toward their husbands. They are not being instructed to obey their husbands, but rather to obey the word of God as pertaining to conduct toward their husbands.

How many times have I reminded everyone here that you have to keep in mind the time period, circumstances, and sequence of events when you are reading the scriptures? It is not the Local Sunday Paper.

In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 1st Peter 3:1

Wives, subject yourselves to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Ephesians 5:22-23

Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband. Ephesians 5:33

Wives, be subject to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Colossians 3:18

Go get me a beer wench!
There are reasons why a statement like this might be acceptable a long time ago---but not today. Christians assume so much that they more or less construct for themselves a false historical reality.

I am going to hit the high points….
Many believe that two people having sex is a sin if they have not had a wedding ceremony? False. The scriptures never made a wedding ceremony a requirement to be married. The Protestants were the first to make church wedding ceremonies a requirement to be married in the 16th century. If a couple have sex and remain together it is marriage and that is the way it was done for several millenniums. Then again it is our custom in Christianity that a couple have a wedding ceremony.

The scriptures did not put an end or speak against slavery. But it is not a custom in Christianity anymore.

Christians think that polygamy and concubinage was made a sin or stopped by the scriptures. False. Polygamy and concubinage continued on in Christianity for several centuries after the biblical period. I did not say it was common.

When did the Christian practice of polygamy end?
The Catholic Church held a synod in Hertford, England, in 673 that was supervised by Archbishop Theodore. Chapter 10 issued by the synod declared that marriage is allowed between one man and one woman…..A few centuries later the Jews started to stop practicing polygamy.

When did the Christian practice of concubinage end?
The practice of concubinage was eventually outlawed by the Catholic Council of Trent in the 16th century…..But this is willing and unwilling concubines…..selling of daughters into concubinage and forced arranged marriages were outlawed by the Catholic Church and civilly around the 13th century. But still this practice continued on.

Do the scriptures in the New Testament indicate that a spouse should obey her husband? Yes. Why? Christianity continued to be treated women like property for several centuries after the biblical period.

Fathers bought wives for their sons in arranged marriages. Very common practice, even though the Catholic Church forbid arrange marriages and gave women the right to chose their husband….. around the 13th century, if memory serves. Still this practice continued on for a long time.

So again the question….Should a spouse obey her husband?
Of course if you own your wife, she should obey you. For those that are Bible only and the husband and wife believe this and a woman is willing to put herself under the subjugation of he husband….it is their choice…..but it is no longer a custom of Christianity.

Just like polygamy and concubinage….a father selling his daughter as a sex slave... is no longer a custom of Christianity. And a man does not exchange money with the father for his daughter’s hand in marriage anymore.

So as it is today a marriage is an agreement…..so before entering into marriage ladies ….define your roles before you get married.

 

[Lambano]

Gosh, only men have responded to this thread. Not a single woman.

 

[ScottA]

The following verse is under consideration.

[Tit 2:5 KJV] 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Is this verse saying that wives have to obey their husbands without question?

Let us examine other verses to determine the meaning of Titus 2:5 and what it means to be obedient.

[Rom 6:17 KJV] 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Believers are to be obedient to the doctrine, the teachings and instructions. Doctrine was delivered to the church the Body of Christ by Christ through Paul. The church finds it's instruction in the epistles of the Apostle Paul.

[1Co 14:37 KJV] 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

The church is to acknowledge that what Paul has written in his epistles are the commandments delivered by Christ to the church and are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:21 KJV] 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

We are to submit ourselves unto the commandments of God which dictate how we relate one to another. It determines our conduct one to another.

[2Th 3:14 KJV] 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Paul's epistles are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:22-24 KJV] 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

Wives are to submit unto their own husbands by obeying the commandments set forth in the epistles of Paul. They are to behave toward their husbands as commanded by the Lord Jesus. The husband portrays Christ as the head of the church in marriage. The wife portrays the church.

[Eph 5:33 KJV] 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

This is one example of the commandments set forth for wives to obey. She is to reverence her husband because he is positioned as her head just as Christ is head of the church.

[Col 3:13 KJV] 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.

She is to obey all the commandments that pertain to the church the body of Christ toward her husband as well.

Wives are to obey the commandments set forth by the Lord as pertaining to their conduct toward their husbands. They are not being instructed to obey their husbands, but rather to obey the word of God as pertaining to conduct toward their husbands.

Which is better, the example of marriage portrayed by husband and wife, or the actual marriage the example only points to?

While, yes, the portrayals are still in effect, at this late hour it is better to focus on the reason behind the portrayals, as it was always better to take the example to heart as it pertains to our relationship with God, rather than with each other.

The example practice then, is given for those who do not know what the example pertains to. Which begs the question, which can and should be answered as being a portrayal of our marriage with God. It is a ministry given to us by God. And this is ultimately the lesson to be taught. Marriage and the portray roles of man and wife are then a model of the relationship intended for those who love God--that God loves us and has plans for us to become as One with Him. The role of portraying our marriage with God, is then to be understood as an honor and a privileged to represent.

 

[Skovand]

2 Samuel 11:1-5
11 In the spring of the year, the time when kings go out to battle, David sent Joab with his officers and all Israel with him; they ravaged the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. But David remained at Jerusalem.

2 It happened, late one afternoon when David rose from his couch and was walking about on the roof of the king’s house, that he saw from the roof a woman bathing; the woman was very beautiful. 3 David sent someone to inquire about the woman. It was reported, “This is Bathsheba daughter of Eliam, the wife of Uriah the Hittite.” 4 So David sent messengers to get her, and she came to him, and he lay with her. (Now she was purifying herself after her period.) Then she returned to her house. 5 The woman conceived, and she sent and told David, “I am pregnant.”

So I see a few in here, the typical few, are confused over what is being said. Bathsheba was not on a roof taking a bath. We don’t know where she was, but we can presume from everything in the text she was doing what was normal. From the ground level, wherever she was, she would have been hidden. It was David, who was on the roof of his house, the King’s house, which would have been bigger than the rest. So Bathsheba was most likely in a smaller yard, that was part of her house, behind walls. Others walking around would not have seen her.

David saw her because he was out in the afternoon to evening on his roof, looking down and saw her. He then raped her after having her brought to his place. If you don’t understand how what happened is rape, it just means you lack a basic concept of consent within highly unequal power positions. I already know the handful from the thread here that will not understand this. You can tell because they consistently push racist sexist agendas. At least online where they feel safe.

They also don’t understand text manipulation within the scriptures, such as the biblical seams of David in 1 Samuel 16&17.
I suggest checking out the work by the biblical scholar with “Data over Dogman” on the historicity of David.

 

[Skovand]

As for should women be slaves to their husband, this website has a widespread of articles that go beyond plain text reading that lacks an understanding of sex and gender within the first century.

"Wives obey" | The Junia Project

juniaproject.com

Now within this thread are several who I have clicked as ignored on my end. I’m not going to red or respond to them on here since they consistently prove to not be worthwhile to hold any meaningful or in-depth conversation with. They are enslaved to an echo chamber, narrow mindset that can only perceive scripture through their modern hateful eyes missing out on contextual analysis. They are actually some of the worst counter argument developers I’ve seen to the point we have used snippets of their conversation in a class showing modern insights into the development of stupidity.

 

[Verily]

Gosh, only men have responded to this thread. Not a single woman.

Not a man, but not a single woman either ;)

 

[quietthinker]

WHAT DOES IT MEAN WIVES ARE TO BE OBEDIENT TO THEIR HUSBANDS?​

keep da fish'n chips on da table, don't hog da remote when da footy's on an' make sure da fish'n chips is hot!.....dat should cuva et.

 

[Lambano]

Well, she was the one who decided to bath nekkid out where others could see he bathing nekkid.

I am not sure whether she had indoor plumbing, but waiting till eventide does not seem to inidcate she wanted to be seen, maybe there was a better time, when Kings were back in town and mid afternoon.

I suspect that the houses at the time had catch-basins for rain on the roof, especially in a semi-arid region like Israel. (I put in rain-barrels during the drought in 2008.) A woman would wait until twilight precisely because she did not want voyeurs peeping at her. (But still needed enough light to find the soap.)

 

[Lambano]

Not a man, but not a single woman either ;)

My apologies, Verily. Your profile is hidden and I could not determine your gender.

 

[Wrangler]

Is this verse saying that wives have to obey their husbands without question?

@Mink57 knows this verse means questioning is besides the point. Why do you add ’without question’ to the text?

I often think about the command “duck” or “watch out!” Life flows from obeying first. You can question all you like after the fact.

Its not about ‘understanding’ the command but respecting it, obeying it in the moment of truth.

 

[Wrangler]

The verse does not have the following words in it, so it does not accept these....or promote these.

Yet, many man hater read such words into the Bible.

 

[MA2444]

My apologies, Verily. Your profile is hidden and I could not determine your gender.

You can usually tell by how they talk! Plus their screen names give it away sometimes too.

 

[MA2444]

@Mink57 knows this verse means questioning is besides the point. Why do you add ’without question’ to the text?

I often think about the command “duck” or “watch out!” Life flows from obeying first. You can question all you like after the fact.

Its not about ‘understanding’ the command but respecting it, obeying it in the moment of truth.

See now in a practical sense the women are in charge at home, and usually the man wont disagree with what she says, but there can be disagreements and in those instances she is supposed to back down and defer to the man. That makes sense to me.

 

[Wrangler]

Enough that you started this thread asking the questions you asked.

Try a modern translation and do it again.

John, why can’t you answer a direct question? Why do you play this game of:

1. Having superior knowledge
2. Keeping this superior knowledge mysterious.
3. Putting yourself in a position to judge and find him wanting?

 

[Wrangler]

See now in a practical sense the women are in charge at home, and usually the man wont disagree with what she says, but there can be disagreements and in those instances she is supposed to back down and defer to the man. That makes sense to me.

Somehow, it makes sense to feminists to argue endlessly among "equals" about every point of disagreement, then blame men for a bitter and resentful life.

 

[Wrangler]

She was not a hoe.

She stepped out on her husband. Can you cite the verse that stays she rebuked David's advances?

 

[MA2444]

She stepped out on her husband. Can you cite the verse that stays she rebuked David's advances?

Haha! I can not.

She was young and needed the money! He was the king and she was arguing with hubby right before he went to work and told to get a better job! 6 figures she said, lol.

I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because things were different back then. No one turns down the King! Especially a girl I would think. This in the days that women were subservient to men, so much more the the very King of their land?