WHAT DOES IT MEAN WIVES ARE TO BE OBEDIENT TO THEIR HUSBANDS?

[Doug]

The following verse is under consideration.

[Tit 2:5 KJV] 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Is this verse saying that wives have to obey their husbands without question?

Let us examine other verses to determine the meaning of Titus 2:5 and what it means to be obedient.

[Rom 6:17 KJV] 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Believers are to be obedient to the doctrine, the teachings and instructions. Doctrine was delivered to the church the Body of Christ by Christ through Paul. The church finds it's instruction in the epistles of the Apostle Paul.

[1Co 14:37 KJV] 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

The church is to acknowledge that what Paul has written in his epistles are the commandments delivered by Christ to the church and are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:21 KJV] 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

We are to submit ourselves unto the commandments of God which dictate how we relate one to another. It determines our conduct one to another.

[2Th 3:14 KJV] 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Paul's epistles are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:22-24 KJV] 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

Wives are to submit unto their own husbands by obeying the commandments set forth in the epistles of Paul. They are to behave toward their husbands as commanded by the Lord Jesus. The husband portrays Christ as the head of the church in marriage. The wife portrays the church.

[Eph 5:33 KJV] 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

This is one example of the commandments set forth for wives to obey. She is to reverence her husband because he is positioned as her head just as Christ is head of the church.

[Col 3:13 KJV] 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.

She is to obey all the commandments that pertain to the church the body of Christ toward her husband as well.

Wives are to obey the commandments set forth by the Lord as pertaining to their conduct toward their husbands. They are not being instructed to obey their husbands, but rather to obey the word of God as pertaining to conduct toward their husbands.

 

[Behold]

The following verse is under consideration.

[Tit 2:5 KJV] 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

The Context of this verse, that Paul wrote.. is.... that the Husband be a Good Christian Man, who loves His wife and treats her as Christ has relationship with the Church.

The verse does not have the following words in it, so it does not accept these....or promote these.

"Slave".

"Punching Bag"

"3rd rate Citizen"

"To be disrespected"

"to be treated with callous contempt"

"to be abused verbally, physically, mentally".

 

[Doug]

The Context of this verse, that Paul wrote.. is.... that the Husband be a Good Christian Man, who loves His wife and treats her as Christ has relationship with the Church.

The verse does not have the following words in it, so it does not accept these....or promote these.

"Slave".

"Punching Bag"

"3rd rate Citizen"

"To be disrespected"

"to be treated with callous contempt"

"to be abused verbally, physically, mentally".

The verse does not have the following words in it, so it does not accept these....or promote these.

"Slave".

"Punching Bag"

"3rd rate Citizen"

"To be disrespected"

"to be treated with callous contempt"

"to be abused verbally, physically, mentally".

You are absolutely right here in the above
None of the above are to construe as being taught here.
Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church.

The Context of this verse, that Paul wrote.. is.... that the Husband be a Good Christian Man, who loves His wife and treats her as Christ has relationship with the Church.

Yes husbands should love their wives and relate to her as being her head just as Christ is head to the church.
The wives conduct to her husband is to be dictated by the Word of God and not dictated by her husband's behavior.

 

[Rockerduck]

Let us remember this only applies to a Christian marriage. The marriage is like a Church. Christ is the head of man and his family represent the Church, that the man takes care of. The wife and Husband love Christ first, then the spouse second.

 

[JohnDB]

The following verse is under consideration.

[Tit 2:5 KJV] 5 [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Is this verse saying that wives have to obey their husbands without question?

Let us examine other verses to determine the meaning of Titus 2:5 and what it means to be obedient.

[Rom 6:17 KJV] 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Believers are to be obedient to the doctrine, the teachings and instructions. Doctrine was delivered to the church the Body of Christ by Christ through Paul. The church finds it's instruction in the epistles of the Apostle Paul.

[1Co 14:37 KJV] 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

The church is to acknowledge that what Paul has written in his epistles are the commandments delivered by Christ to the church and are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:21 KJV] 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

We are to submit ourselves unto the commandments of God which dictate how we relate one to another. It determines our conduct one to another.

[2Th 3:14 KJV] 14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Paul's epistles are to be obeyed.

[Eph 5:22-24 KJV] 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.

Wives are to submit unto their own husbands by obeying the commandments set forth in the epistles of Paul. They are to behave toward their husbands as commanded by the Lord Jesus. The husband portrays Christ as the head of the church in marriage. The wife portrays the church.

[Eph 5:33 KJV] 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband.

This is one example of the commandments set forth for wives to obey. She is to reverence her husband because he is positioned as her head just as Christ is head of the church.

[Col 3:13 KJV] 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.

She is to obey all the commandments that pertain to the church the body of Christ toward her husband as well.

Wives are to obey the commandments set forth by the Lord as pertaining to their conduct toward their husbands. They are not being instructed to obey their husbands, but rather to obey the word of God as pertaining to conduct toward their husbands.

Your issue is the use of KJV without actually understanding 17th century English.

 

[Doug]

Your issue is the use of KJV without actually understanding 17th century English.

Elucidate me as to what I need to know in regard to 17th century English, what am I ignorant of?

 

[JohnDB]

Elucidate me as to what I need to know in regard to 17th century English, what am I ignorant of?

Enough that you started this thread asking the questions you asked.

Try a modern translation and do it again.

 

[Doug]

Let us remember this only applies to a Christiam marriage. The marriage is like a Church. Christ is the head of man and his family represent the Church, that the man takes care of. The wife and Husband love Christ first, then the spouse second.

Yes exactly
That marriage is in view by simply reading that wives and husbands are in view.
Women are not commanded to obey doctrine given to conduct toward husbands,

If you are saying this does not apply to marriage outside of believers, then I would say they have to acknowledge the truth to comprehend the breadth of knowledge conveyed in Christ.

 

[Doug]

Enough that you started this thread asking the questions you asked.

Try a modern translation and do it again.

Please give me a modern version verse that I can evaluate

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church.

Yes and let's not forget God made woman for the man... not man for the woman
1 Corinthians 11:9
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

See Genesis 2:22-24 also

Try a modern translation and do it again.

Uh huh, and modern translations flip things all around to where men and women are equals in marriage... which is NOT what the Lord actually said.

Beware of the modern translations as they are choked full of false doctrine!

 

[Verily]

I was looking at this verse where the word of God could be shown as blasphemed in this particular situation as it speaks.

To wives,

Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

A similar example could be found in Bathsheba (another man's wife) to whom she belonged and should have been obedient to when David sent for her and lay with her.

And it was said to David

2 Sam 12:10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

And how by this deed David had given an occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme

2 Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

So again,

Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their OWN husbands, that the word of God be NOT blasphemed.

Same sort of thing in respects to the name of God blasphemed among the Gentiles through these here

Romans 2:22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery?

Romans 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

A similar example could be found in Bathsheba (another man's wife) to whom she belonged and should have been obedient to when David sent for her and lay with her.

Well, she was the one who decided to bath nekkid out where others could see he bathing nekkid.

Sure David was wrong to have gazed upon her which is when sin took root in his soul... but that does not mean Bathsheba wasn't a hoe cause she definitely was.... like many woman today

 

[Verily]

Well, she was the one who decided to bath nekkid out where others could see he bathing nekkid.

Sure David was wrong to have gazed upon her which is when sin took root in his soul... but that does not mean Bathsheba wasn't a hoe cause she definitely was.... like many woman today

God blamed David

2 Sam 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

Both fall under the matter of Uriah

1 Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

A woman being discreet is mentioned in the verse

Titus 2:5 TO BE DISCREET, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to THEIR OWN husbands, that the word of God be NOT blasphemed.

 

[Rockerduck]

Well, she was the one who decided to bath nekkid out where others could see he bathing nekkid.

Sure David was wrong to have gazed upon her which is when sin took root in his soul... but that does not mean Bathsheba wasn't a hoe cause she definitely was.... like many woman today

Let's expound on that, maybe she did see David on the roof, then decided to bath.

 

[MA2444]

The Context of this verse, that Paul wrote.. is.... that the Husband be a Good Christian Man, who loves His wife and treats her as Christ has relationship with the Church.

The verse does not have the following words in it, so it does not accept these....or promote these.

"Slave".

"Punching Bag"

"3rd rate Citizen"

"To be disrespected"

"to be treated with callous contempt"

"to be abused verbally, physically, mentally".

Your right it doesn't say that! Lol. This is how it is supposed to work.

First the *potential* wife starts behaving in this manner (As unto Christ) and the weaker lesser vessel so that the *potential* husband would want her for a wife and consdier it within himself.

Now if the man lives his life as unto Christ then he lifts this young pretty girl up and says would you consider being my wife? She says yes and they are married, and now her work is cut out for her! What's for supper and how many kids should we have?

Then the wife says "Make it your dog dang self!" Wait, no. Flashback, one of my buddy's wife said to this him one time when we came thru the door together after work. Sorry...

And she says, We're having meatloaf and potatoes tonight and I ironed your work clothes. How about 2 kids? and so the is a mutual humble between them and she holds her place as a wife should without being bossy or negative. Any normal man sees this treatment and says, wow she respects me. I will do something special for her!

And on and on it goes. Where people get into trouble is not keeping it up and eventually one will make a mistake and it used to be that there was an I'm sorry I wont do it again and it was forgotten. But nowadays they use ones partners mistake as justification to do the same thing. Then all trust goes out the door and the relationship is over.

 

[Verily]

Let's expound on that, maybe she did see David on the roof, then decided to bath.

It does say,

2 Sam 11:1 And it came to pass, after the year was expired, AT THAT TIME WHEN KINGS GO FORTH TO BATTLE, that David sent Joab, and his servants with him, and ALL ISRAEL; and they destroyed the children of Ammon, and besieged Rabbah. BUT DAVID TARRIED STILL at Jerusalem.

2 Sam 11:2 And it came to pass in AN EVENINGTIDE, that David AROSE FROM OFF OF HIS BED, and WALKED UPON THE ROOF of the king's house: AND FROM THE ROOF HE SAW a woman washing herself; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon.

So she was bathing at a time when Kings go forth to battle (along with all Israel) whereas David tarried behind. And at night (eventide when people are typically sleeping) David just gets out of bed and starts walking on the roof and spots a woman bathing.

I am not sure whether she had indoor plumbing, but waiting till eventide does not seem to inidcate she wanted to be seen, maybe there was a better time, when Kings were back in town and mid afternoon.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are absolutely right here in the above
None of the above are to construe as being taught here.
Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church.

The Context of this verse, that Paul wrote.. is.... that the Husband be a Good Christian Man, who loves His wife and treats her as Christ has relationship with the Church.

Yes husbands should love their wives and relate to her as being her head just as Christ is head to the church.
The wives conduct to her husband is to be dictated by the Word of God and not dictated by her husband's behavior.

We also have to remember that each command , wives submit and husbands love are separate from each other and one is not required for the other to be obeyed.

If a wife does not submit to here husband, then the husband is not excused from loving his wife as Jesus loves the church. the other is also true. Women can and should leave their husbands if their is real abuse taking place. Not only for their sakes but for any children they have.

 

[MA2444]

Well, she was the one who decided to bath nekkid out where others could see he bathing nekkid.

Sure David was wrong to have gazed upon her which is when sin took root in his soul... but that does not mean Bathsheba wasn't a hoe cause she definitely was.... like many woman today

She was not a hoe.

I think all women bath nekkid dont they?
She wasnt bathing where everyone could see her. Bath tubs were kept on the roof in those days and they would fill it with water in the morning and let it sit in the sun all day to get warm, then they bathe in the evening before the husband gets home from work.

King David occupied the hill in Jerusalem and so was on the highest point of the city and he could come out on his balcony and look down and see Bathsheba's house down below.

She could have had a shower curtain all around it (or quilts) so no one could see her yet King David could still over and down. Just because she had to be hot doesnt mean she was a hoe. Women knew their lesser place amongst men back then. She was prolly very obedient to her husband...but when the King sends for you, what do you expect her to do? Say no? No, you go before the king. And David really liked what he saw so he said, I'd like some cootchie from you....Now what is that girl supposed to say? NO? To the King?! Living in a time when making a king mad can get your head chopped off?! I dont think so Brother.

Times was different then, you dont turn down your own King. She had no real choice unlike all these *independant* women nowadays.

 

[JohnDB]

King David occupied the hill in Jerusalem and so was on the highest point of the city and he could come out on his balcony and look down and see Bathsheba's house down below.

Someone needs to actually visit Jerusalem to know what they are talking about.

Also....
The prelude to this is a Qual (type of Hebrew clause) that directly explains why David was in the wrong place at the wrong time....IE: he should have been elsewhere.

 

[JohnDB]

Yes and let's not forget God made woman for the man... not man for the woman
1 Corinthians 11:9
Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

See Genesis 2:22-24 also




Uh huh, and modern translations flip things all around to where men and women are equals in marriage... which is NOT what the Lord actually said.

Beware of the modern translations as they are choked full of false doctrine!

Actually, yes men and women are equals in marriage. Jesus deliberately pointed this out THREE TIMES.
Woman with an issue of blood
Woman at the Well
Mary and Martha.