THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[David in NJ]

You say we can't believe the lying Jews then you make your whole case based on what specifically they said

God's logic always prevails

 

[Behold]

So, what was he?

God wrapped in human flesh.

 

[Scott Downey]

God made it Circular = a circle has no Beginning point and no Ending point

Here is the Order God has established for us: "God preached the Gospel to Abraham" = GOSPEL

GOSPEL = GENESIS

Abraham - FATHER
Isaac - only Begotten SON
Jacob - HOLY SPIRIT

God, Salvation, Holy Spirit is a MYSTERY that is best explained to us in the Gospel

The WORD is the incorruptible SEED that brings forth the New Birth = 1 Peter 1:23
"For you have been born again, of incorruptible SEED, through the living and enduring Word of God."

It is the Holy Spirit's job to act as the Jewish Rabbi Mohel who performs the Circumcision of a man's heart.
The Circumcision of the Heart only occurs AFTER hearing the WORD

No one believes in God without Hearing His Word FIRST = SEE Genesis Abraham = Abraham believed the Word and God credited to Him for Righteousness = Circumcision of the Heart

If the New Birth took place BEFORE the hearing of the Word = what purpose then did the FATHER send JESUS
ALL THREE are TOGETHER in the SALVATION of a man/woman

"The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life" = spirit gives Life thru the Word/SEED of God

"He who hears my words" = "For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ"

Just as a woman MUST receive the SEED of a man in order to CONCEIVE a NEW BIRTH in her womb,
so also MUST a person FIRST receive the Word in their hearts in Order for the Holy Spirit New Birth

God sends His Word = Sower/Planting
the Holy Spirit looks for the Word = waters it
The Word takes root in the persons heart(Holy Spirit watering the Word) = New Birth

SAME as inside a woman's womb which is why JESUS said this to Nicodemus

No one knows at what moment a person is Born Again except the Spirit and the person who is experiencing the New Birth.

Not a single person who has been born again will tell you that they NEVER heard the Word of God

it is right to say no one knows the time of their new birth, but people will feel the affects in their mind (and spirit), it simply must occur and does but not by our bidding, no one is educated into the new birth, or it taught it.

The reality is no one is taught to know Christ in the New Covenant.
Here is how the NC works and it is different than the OC.
IT is worked in us entirely by the Lord

Heb 8

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

This of course can only happen for us by the Spirit of God working within, and like Christ said, you must be born again of the Spirit. There is no man that teaches you to know God, if there is they are a false prophet and a false God

Which really means our knowing God and Christ is not in our own ability, it is their gift according to their own will, read Luke 10

 

[David in NJ]

it is right to say no one knows the time of their new birth, but people will feel the affects in their mind (and spirit), it simply must occur and does but not by our bidding, no one is educated into the new birth, or it taught it.

The reality is no one is taught to know Christ in the New Covenant.
Here is how the NC works and it is different than the OC.
IT is worked in us entirely by the Lord

Heb 8

A New Covenant​

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins [b]and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

This of course can only happen for us by the Spirit of God working within, and like Christ said, you must be born again of the Spirit. There is no man that teaches you to know God, if there is they are a false prophet and a false God

Which really means our knowing God and Christ is not in our own ability, it is their gift according to their own will, read Luke 10

no one is educated into the new birth, or it taught it.

The FATHER educates us into the New Birth, in our hearts, via His Word via the Holy Spirit = THREE

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’
Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

 

[Grailhunter]

Why would someone that does not believe that Christ is a God want to believe they are a Christian?
Why would they believe that a man could save them from Hell?
Why would they believe that a man could open the gates of Heaven to humanity?
Why would someone believe a man would be the one judging humanity at the end?

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:31

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:12

 

[Ritajanice]

The FATHER educates us into the New Birth, in our hearts, via His Word via the Holy Spirit = THREE

I would say that God relays the message on how to educate us on what it means to be Born Again, via His Holy Spirit ,as he takes instructions from the Father on educating us in our spirit.

He relays all messages from God to our spirit, we grow and mature in Gods timing, not our timing.

 

[Grailhunter]

I believe in…
God the Father…Yahweh…God Almighty…Creator of Heaven and Earth and Adam and Eve…..
God the Son…Yeshua…the Son of God…Messiah…Savior.
The Holy Spirit…the unnamed God…helper…guide… teacher… strengthener….nurturer…..
I believe the word Trinity is three Gods in unity. Tri-unity
Triune would be three in one.

But still what is that unity? And that explanation get deep….but simply put...three separate minds but if perfect minds think alike they would never have a disagreement…..unity.

Grailhunter’s Corner

******************The concepts of the Trinity in motion**************** Over a hundred scriptural reasons why the one God formula for the Trinity is false. Note: Feel free to verify all scriptural references in your own favorite translation. This is a topic that is easy to prove because it...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Scott Downey]

The FATHER educates us into the New Birth, in our hearts, via His Word via the Holy Spirit = THREE

Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’
Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

Noone is what it says, the meaning is no man does.

 

[JLB]

The Father is a transcendent being, the creator of all that exists. The son is a man, who represents the Father in character and authority.

The Son became a Man; He became flesh.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made… And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1-3,14

again

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


The Son created all things.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16


The Son was before all things.

And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Colossians 1:17



The Son appeared to many in the Old Testament.

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18


When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. Genesis 17:1



Then King Nebuchadnezzar was astonished; and he rose in haste and spoke, saying to his counselors, “Did we not cast three men bound into the midst of the fire?”
They answered and said to the king, “True, O king.”
“Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.”
Daniel 3:24-25

 

[JLB]

I believe in…
God the Father…Yahweh…God Almighty…Creator of Heaven and Earth and Adam and Eve…..

You have a choice to believe man made creeds or the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9


For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16



But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

 

[JLB]

Please share the scripture that says the earth is the third planet from the sun.

Please show the scripture that says the earth is the third planet from the sun.


If you want to discuss science then count me out.


If you want to discuss scripture then use scripture as your pretext for discussion.



Heres my scripture -


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9


For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16



But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

 

[CadyandZoe]

If we don’t have the Spirit of Christ then we are none of his.

I take that to mean ,that the Spirit we were birthed into ..must be the Spirit of Christ.that can only come by His Living witness.testifying that truth to our spirit.

I agree with that.

I told Scott that the phrase "Spirit of Christ" can be understood in either one of two ways: 1) "the Spirit which belongs to Christ" or 2) the Spirit which is like Christ's spirit." The Apostles are not talking about metaphysics as if we share Christ's spirit in common with him. Rather, Peter and Paul maintain that Christ's followers are blessed with the same attitudes, values, worldviews, and motivations as Jesus Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

You have a choice to believe man made creeds or the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
2 John 9


For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16



But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And: “You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

I believe in God Almighty.
Now if you can specifically show me something in Old Testament that Yeshua did by name then we can talk about it.
Until then, I am comfortable with the fact that we believe differently.
I do not think that Yahweh is a liar and He makes it clear that He is the only God in the Old Testament and there was no other.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1

“You are the Lord, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you. Nehemiah 9:6

“You shall have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3

To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord is God; there is no other besides him. Deuteronomy 4:35

Know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the Lord is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. Deuteronomy 4:39

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Deuteronomy 6:4

“See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand. Deuteronomy 32:39

And Hezekiah prayed before the Lord and said: “O Lord, the God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth. Isaiah 37:20

I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. Isaiah 42:8 (Of course they removed His name.)

“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. Isaiah 43:10

I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11

I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, Isaiah 45:5

Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. Isaiah 45:21

Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, Isaiah 46:9

That all the peoples of the earth may know that the Lord is God; there is no other. 1st Kings 8:60

There is none like you, O Lord, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears. 1st Chronicles 17:20

Therefore you are great, O Lord God. For there is none like you, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears. 2nd Samuel 7:22

 

[CadyandZoe]

The Son became a Man; He became flesh.

The word became flesh. Right?

The Son created all things.

Impossible. Otherwise, there would be no Father.

The Son was before all things.

He still is. In this context, the term "before" means "preeminent."

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

John is talking about the Son's representation of the Father. He is not talking metaphysics.

 

[Aunty Jane]

If we don’t have the Spirit of Christ then we are none of his.

I take that to mean ,that the Spirit we were birthed into ..must be the Spirit of Christ.that can only come by His Living witness.testifying that truth to our spirit.

Is the “spirit of Christ” and the “spirit of God”, one and the same spirit? If so why differentiate them?

The word “spirit” is used in many ways in Scripture. Being “born again” means a heavenly inheritance, but not all are born again, because heaven is not the only inheritance…Jesus said that “the meek shall inherit the earth”, so both realms will be the location of the operation of God’s spirit. As Isaiah said, God did not create the earth for nothing”, he created it to be the home of living things, including us humans. The fall of man did not alter God’s original purpose for us here. It merely detoured us around it, addressing the issue of God’s Sovereignty by setting up the means to re-establish it among his children both in heaven and on earth. We are after all, one family, with one Father.

We can manifest the “spirit of Christ” by undertaking the work Jesus commanded his disciples to do….that is, to zealously preach the good news of God’s kingdom (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)….but in order to do that, we first have to know what that kingdom is….what it’s purpose is….and what the good news about it is….those with a heavenly inheritance will be “kings and priests” in that kingdom (Rev 20:6) They will be resurrected first.
In the beginning God never mentioned a kingdom to Adam because there was no threat to God’s sovereignty until the rebellion, which started in the spiritual realm, and spread to the human race.

What would you say to someone who asked you what God’s kingdom will do for troubled humanity?
Do you understand what Jesus was teaching us to pray for in the Lord’s Prayer?
“Thy kingdom come” was a request because with the coming of that Kingdom, God’s will could finally “be done on earth as it is in heaven”. All my life, I prayed that prayer without knowing what I was praying for….so once I knew what the kingdom was, and what it will accomplish…that was indeed good news for all who will gain either inheritance.

 

[Ritajanice]

Is the “spirit of Christ” and the “spirit of God”, one and the same spirit? If so why differentiate them?

Hi Aunty, I’m taking a break from the trinity thread,..I don’t think the Spirit of Christ is God, I think the Spirit of Christ is Gods seed..does that make sense.

His seed came out of his mouth when he impregnated Mary, the seed was Jesus, which doesn’t make him God, he came out of Gods mouth as a seed.

That’s the only way I can explain it..I’ve been in thread to long and it’s causing confusion to me, reading all the different posts, I’ve answered to the best of my knowledge Aunty,you remind me of an encyclopaedia ...very knowledgable.

Hope to get back to the rest of your questions in a couple of days...the Born Again that you speak of inheritance, is interesting , God Bless. @Aunty Jane .

 

[Aunty Jane]

I don't think the Bible teaches us that Jesus had a pre-human existence.

There are several reasons why I believe that Jesus was the son of God from “the beginning”. He was not one of many sons, which the Bible refers to many times, but the pre human Jesus was the one “through whom” all creation came.
Col 1:15-17…
”He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.” (NASB)
He is “the firstborn of ALL creation”, making him part of that creation. He was used by his God and Father to create all things….”through him and for him”….”he is before all things”….nothing but God himself existed before him. He was then used as God’s master workman in creation…..as it says in Proverbs 8….

“The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way, Before His works of old. “From everlasting I was established, From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth. While He had not yet made the earth and the fields, Nor the first dust of the world. “When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep, When He set for the sea its boundary So that the water would not transgress His command, When He marked out the foundations of the earth; Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight, Rejoicing always before Him, Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.” (NASB)

He is not the Creator but a worker beside his Father….the “us” and “our” in Genesis 1:26.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hi Aunty, I’m taking a break from the trinity thread,..I don’t think the Spirit of Christ is God, I think the Spirit of Christ is Gods seed..does that make sense.

You are correct…the spirit of Christ would be reflected in our zeal for all the things that God’s Kingdom will return to us…all that we lost in Eden, Jesus came to get back for us…..and the kingdom is the means to accomplish it. He is God’s son in two ways, both involved the operation of God’s spirit to firstly create this only begotten son in heaven, and then when the time was right to transfer his life force to the womb of Mary to bring his human son into the world to give his perfect sinless life for the one we lost.

His seed came out of his mouth when he impregnated Mary, the seed was Jesus, which doesn’t make him God, he came out of Gods mouth as a seed.

Not sure where that idea is coming from, but a seed was indeed planted in Mary to bring forth the same son that existed in heaven…..he asked for his former glory to be reinstated because becoming a human was tantamount to becoming an insect by comparison to the glory he had in heaven.

That’s the only way I can explain it..I’ve been in thread to long and it’s causing confusion to me, reading all the different posts, I’ve answered to the best of my knowledge Aunty,you remind me of an encyclopaedia ...very knowledgable.

I have been a keen Bible student for most of my life, having abandoned the church system in my twenties. I love the Bible and have studied it deeply for over 50 years…..I am not an encyclopedia by any means but my mind works in such a way that I must be able to explain things to myself and understand them before I share things with others. The truth exposes the lies that satan has planted in the world….I want to show people the truth because it’s wonderful.

Hope to get back to the rest of your questions in a couple of days...the Born Again that you speak of inheritance, is interesting , God Bless. @Aunty Jane .

Look forward to further discussions….God’s blessings to you too…

 

[Aunty Jane]

You need to read your biblical quotes above in the context of the rest of Scripture...
“Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; ”
Hebrews 1:2 KJV

I’m afraid I ditched the old KJV many years ago as a dead language for a different generation who spoke a very different English language.
In order to understand the Bible it must be read in the language you speak….I do not speak archaic English and neither does anyone I know. It’s phrasing is confusing as are its outdated terminologies. Language evolves and we must evolve with it.
So because I am a keen Bible student, I study the Bible not theology. I study the meaning of words in their original languages because it reveals so much when you see the same word translated into different passages, enhancing their meaning in a fuller sense.

Context is everything, so what about Heb 1:1-4 for context…
“God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. (NASB)

What is this telling us? God used his prophets to speak with his people, (Israel) in Bible times, but in the Christian Era, he has used his son to inform us of what we need to believe and practice. The need for prophets and angelic visitations was over. All that was necessary for salvation was taught by God’s son and those he chose as apostles.…all written in God’s word for our instruction.
In Heb 3:1 Paul calls Jesus an “apostle”…meaning “one sent forth”. Who sent Jesus? (John 17:3)

So what do we see there in the following verses? The son reflected his Father’s glory and was “the exact representation of his nature”. A reflection is not the original but is like it. The man in the mirror is a reflection of you, but it isn’t you.
So after his earthly mission was successfully completed, he returned to where he was before, at God’s right hand. (John 6:62) Interestingly, the Holy Spirit is never said to sit at his left.….so where is three?

And how is Jesus (if he is God) made “better than the angels” and how is he “given a name more excellent than theirs”? If you want context…..care to explain?

 

[Taken]

I don't think the Bible teaches us that Jesus had a pre-human existence.

Humans are created.
Jesus was not created.
Jesus is God.

Isa 9
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Heb 13
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

John 14
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Rev 13
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Glory to God,
Taken