THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Taken]

Santa Claus was known as a charitable soul, but also a staunch supporter of trinitarianism. In 325, Nicholas is said to have attended the First Council of Nicaea where he lost his temper and slapped "a certain Arian" across the face.

Good Ole Saint Nick!

Don’t know if the same “famed” Nick attended any Religious Councils…

But do believe historically some successful men have been charitable to little children, in secretive ways, as to not embarrass poor parents, but rather to purely give joy to little children and hope that goodness despite poorness exists.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Scott Downey]

Yeah, the Devil did misjudge Jesus’ resolve, you’re right.

The Devil tried, though… he wouldn’t have, if he didn’t think there was a chance, ie., thought Jesus was God.

A few times, when Jesus was casting out demons from possessed Jews, these demons said to Jesus, “We know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God.”

Never once did they call him ‘God’.
As “sons of God” themselves, albeit rebellious & alienated, they knew who Jesus was…. their former big brother.


Did you know the Bible says Jesus has brothers?

Would God have brothers

Fully supports there own distinctness, within the Trinity of God, the Godhead.
I know that word is a trigger word for you.

 

[Scott Downey]

Would God have brothers?

Well God has a family.

Is Jesus our brother? | GotQuestions.org

Is Jesus our brother? Is it wrong to think of Jesus as a brother? If Jesus is the Son of God, and we are sons of God, does that make us brothers?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Scott Downey]

Ephesians 3
14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father [f]of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— 19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

We all know according to the flesh you have to be born into a family and to be in God's family you have to born again according to the Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

We all know according to the flesh you have to be born into a family and to be in God's family you have to born again according to the Spirit.

Yes, but everyone’s testimony is different as Rita pointed out..I keep thinking everyone must be Born Again-my way..I keep getting stuck in that mind set...not now.,..the Spirit brings our spirit to life all very differently..plus our testimonies don’t have to line up with scripture do they?


We are all one in Spirit aren’t we? as in we’re all in Christ, our spirit is in Christ..does that make sense?

Our spirit is Born Again Gods way to all his spirit children, David testimony spoke to my heart, also what Rita spoke about an inner conviction,she knew it was from God..so as soon as we here from God in our heart ,we are Born Again..just my thoughts.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Are you serious? How does a dismembered body function? The body of Christ must be united as Paul said…
1 Cor 1:10….
”Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”
By what stretch of whose imagination does Christendom fit that description? Could it be more disunited?

These are definitely in union with one another…..but there is no scripture that says all three are God.
If there was a direct statement from either God or his son that they were equally deity along with the Holy Spirit, then surely it would be an unequivocal statement…but this issue still rages because there is not one verse where Jesus and his Father and the Holy Spirit are said to be equally God. There are many suggestions about badly translated verses, but nothing even close to a direct statement. If there was we would have no argument.

Each are identified as separate, but again the unity never states that these three are one and the same God….how does one part of God not know what another part of the same being knows?

How can one part of God have a different will to his other self?

How is it that one part of God can be a “mediator between God and men” and still be God? Why don’t we need a mediator between us and Jesus?

Is there no logic that can counter the indoctrination that goes with this ingrained belief, centuries old….but which was never true?

I have to wonder if you hear yourselves?

Don't know what your argument is. I made no claim either way. I just shared what is in scripture and what I have come to understand.

 

[Ritajanice]

Don't know what your argument is. I made no claim either way. I just shared what is in scripture and what I have come to understand.

You, me , everyone of us are in Christ’s Spirit..Born Again?

We are all one in Christ, the body of believers.Born Again.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You, me , everyone of us are in Christ’s Spirit..Born Again?

We are all one in Christ, the body of believers.Born Again.

I don't think it is possible to in Christ unless you are born again of His spirit. Here is what Ephesians says.
Ephesians 4 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
² With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
³ Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
⁴ There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
⁵ One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
⁶ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Exactly my point….”monogenes” means “a unique only child”, which Jesus was in his pre-human existence and as a human on earth….in both presentations, he was divinely produced by the power of God’s spirit.

I don't think the Bible teaches us that Jesus had a pre-human existence.

 

[Ritajanice]

I don't think it is possible to in Christ unless you are born again of His spirit

Agreed @Heart2Soul we must have that vital ingredient residing permanently in our spirit, his name is the Holy Spirit..only he can testify of Jesus to our spirit.

Born of God...His seed remains in us, a Living seed, the Holy Spirit...we are Alive in the Spirit..our spirit is Alive in Christ..in Jesus Name, Amen.

. Here is what Ephesians says.
Ephesians 4 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
² With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
³ Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
⁴ There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
⁵ One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
⁶ One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

I was Born Again as Jesus explained to Nicodemous, then as the Spirit was indwelling my spirit, he testified with my spirit that I was God’s child ,.he spoke to my spirit.,but not in an audible voice.
The Spirit is like the wind as in you can’t see the Spirit.

Plus we never know the time or place he will birth our spirit into his..mind Blowing when he birthed my spirit into his..Spirit gives birth to spirit =by supernatural divine heart revelation as we see in the scripture below.

John 3​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Romans 8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Scott Downey]

I don't think the Bible teaches us that Jesus had a pre-human existence.

Peter says He did here you go.
1 Peter 1

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to [e]us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Peter says He did here you go.
1 Peter 1

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

12 To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to [e]us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.

Is Peter talking about the spirit that belonged to Christ, or does he acknowledge a type of spirit that is like that of Christ?

 

[Ritajanice]

Is Peter talking about the spirit that belonged to Christ, or does he acknowledge a type of spirit that is like that of Christ?

If we don’t have the Spirit of Christ then we are none of his.

I take that to mean ,that the Spirit we were birthed into ..must be the Spirit of Christ.that can only come by His Living witness.testifying that truth to our spirit.

 

[Scott Downey]

Is Peter talking about the spirit that belonged to Christ, or does he acknowledge a type of spirit that is like that of Christ?

I read this as the genuine Spirit of Christ within them speaking the words of God to the prophets of God, Christ is the Word of God made flesh, so this is consistent and a scriptural explanation

 

[David in NJ]

It is our death He died... the second death.

Dear Brother,
Christ never died the Second Death.

So it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made copy of the true sanctuary, but He entered heaven itself, now to appear on our behalf in the presence of God.

Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

Just as man is appointed to die once, and after that to face judgment,
so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. - Rev 20:14

 

[David in NJ]

Being born again comes first, it is the first step and necessary to be saved.
Our faith God has granted as His gift to those He has elected, chosen beforehand. A faith not of yourself being the gift of God, but like any gift given, it is then become your faith.

Ephesians 1

Redemption in Christ​

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

Philippians 1
29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

And that is why you trusted in Christ.
Look at how Ephesians is written, We are told about How God chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.
And that is why in our time we trusted in Christ, which sealed us into our salvation.

Ephesians 1
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Being born again is something Jesus said not to marvel over, it is the work of God, and His work is that you believe in Christ.
And it is not under your control, it is under His, the Spirit's control.

Nicodemus was not a believer when Jesus told him how man must be born again, and since he was not born again, Nicodemus did not yet believe in Christ.

John 3
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born [a]again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness.

When a man is born again they are of God and hear God and believe in Christ as God has done His work in them, and His work is that you believe in Christ. God's WORD does not get spoken in vain, but accomplishes the purposes for which He sent it. He does this by making you born of God.

If you are not of God you will not hear God, and you will not believe in the Son.
John 8:47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

John 5
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.

To have God's word abiding in you, means you are of God, that He has made you born again. Otherwise you will not be willing to come to Christ.

Nowhere will you find that being born again saved you, you must still come to Christ in belief, but being born again you are now of God, and will hear God and follow Christ.

Jesus said of the other sheep He has this, and these had not yet heard of Him, yet they are still His sheep. They are His sheep because God has given them to Christ. And they don't even know they are His sheep, but when they hear Him, then they will believe in Christ.

Hebrews 2
13 And again,

“I will put my trust in him.”[i]
And again he says,

“Here am I, and the children God has given me.”[j]

John 10
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.

Jesus dies for the sheep and He's the great Shepherd of the Sheep, and only the sheep, no one else.

1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Praise to God for a Living Hope​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Being born again comes first, it is the first step and necessary to be saved.

Scott, not one of the scriptures you posted states this.

All the scriptures, for they all declare the WORD/LORD/JESUS being the FIRST that is necessary for Salvation.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Reversing scripture is how false doctrines are formed and WORSE!!!

ABSOLUTE TRUTH = 1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Hebrews 12:2 - Looking to JESUS the Author and Finisher of Faith

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Scott, not one of the scriptures you posted states this.

All the scriptures, for they all declare the WORD/LORD/JESUS being the FIRST that is necessary for Salvation.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Reversing scripture is how false doctrines are formed and WORSE!!!

ABSOLUTE TRUTH = 1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Hebrews 12:2 - Looking to JESUS the Author and Finisher of Faith

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

What I said does not conflict with the above at all.

We are not born of God of our will. This is not our decision to make.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Those who received Christ were beforehand born again of God. 'were born', not 'are born' due to our receiving Him
And it is consistent with every scripture related to our election by God, and is why you believe..

Like 1 John 5 says

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him

If being born of God was of our wills, with God then making us born again afterwards, then it would be as you said, but it is actually the reverse.

 

[Scott Downey]

'The elect whom He chose' is not 'We chose Him and He elected us'

26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called.

God did not call all.
But the ones God did call did believe.

Acts 15, regarding the gentiles who are turning to God, they God called, which is why they turned. God is the prime mover and the reason you are in Christ is He called you personally.

12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’

18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 9

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[David in NJ]

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

What I said does not conflict with the above at all.

We are not born of God of our will. This is not our decision to make.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Those who received Christ were beforehand born again of God. 'were born', not 'are born' due to our receiving Him
And it is consistent with every scripture related to our election by God, and is why you believe..

Like 1 John 5 says

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him

If being born of God was of our wills, with God then making us born again afterwards, then it would be as you said, but it is actually the reverse.

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Scott, simple question
What does the Scripture say MUST come FIRST ???
a.) the WORD
b.) Born Again