THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Taken]

@Wrangler @Brakelite

Why was it important Christ die to sin once?

Christ the Lord Jesus is a VISIBLE Example …. Promised to whining, stiffnecked, stubborn men, who could not BELIEVE without SEEING.

 

[RLT63]

Great verse RLT!

Anther proof text Christ died in Sins Flesh and was made alive by the Spirit of God.

Thanks
F2F

And he also preached to the spirits in prison before his resurrection

 

[face2face]

And he also preached to the spirits in prison before his resurrection

Do you want to learn what this actually means or are you happy with your notions?

 

[face2face]

Christ the Lord Jesus is a VISIBLE Example …. Promised to whining, stiffnecked, stubborn men, who could not BELIEVE without SEEING.

It's impossible for Trinitarians to deal with many of these passages without the right tools. You can learn and apply once you have them but without them its futile.

 

[RLT63]

Do you want to learn what this actually means or are you happy with your notions?

It's pretty obvious if you read the next verse

 

[Ritajanice]

Christ the Lord Jesus is a VISIBLE Example …. Promised to whining, stiffnecked, stubborn men, who could not BELIEVE without SEEING.

 

[face2face]

It's pretty obvious if you read the next verse

All good - once you understand Jesus died completely and totally then this verse takes on new meaning.

The phrase "spirits in prison" refers to individuals in bondage to sin and death. The concept of prison is associated with this idea in the following passages:

"I the LORD have called thee [Christ]... to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." (Isaiah 42:6-7)

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound." (Isaiah 61:1)

Additionally, in Ephesians 2:1-2, Paul tells the Ephesians: "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins: wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

The term "spirits" in Scripture never refers to disembodied persons. Even angels, who are called "spirits" (Hebrews 1:7), are bodily beings. Lot referred to them as "men" (Genesis 19:1,8), and Jacob wrestled with one of them (Genesis 32:24). Similarly, the Apostle John instructs believers to "try the spirits" (1 John 4:1), but in the same verse, he identifies the spirits with false prophets.

Do you still want to learn about that section or happy with you ethereal spirits belief?

F2F

 

[face2face]

@RLT63

The passage does not state that Jesus personally preached to the spirits in prison, but rather, it says, "by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). It was the "Spirit of Christ" in Noah who preached to the spirits in prison—living individuals in bondage to sin and death—many years before Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod (Matthew 2:1). Through the Holy Spirit given to the prophets (2 Peter 1:21), they were able to speak as if they were Christ. Consider the following passages:

• "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." (Psalm 16:10; cf. Acts 2:26-27)
• "Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me." (Isaiah 8:18; cf. Hebrews 2:13)
• "A body hast thou prepared me." (Hebrews 10:5; cf. Psalm 40:6)

Literally, there was no flesh or body of Christ when these words were written. The Spirit of Christ in the prophets enabled them to foretell "the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow" (1 Peter 1:11). Noah, "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), "being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Hebrews 11:7).

Check the context RLT and you will find truth!

F2F

 

[RLT63]

All good - once you understand Jesus died completely and totally then this verse takes on new meaning.

The phrase "spirits in prison" refers to individuals in bondage to sin and death. The concept of prison is associated with this idea in the following passages:

"I the LORD have called thee [Christ]... to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house." (Isaiah 42:6-7)

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound." (Isaiah 61:1)

Additionally, in Ephesians 2:1-2, Paul tells the Ephesians: "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins: wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

The term "spirits" in Scripture never refers to disembodied persons. Even angels, who are called "spirits" (Hebrews 1:7), are bodily beings. Lot referred to them as "men" (Genesis 19:1,8), and Jacob wrestled with one of them (Genesis 32:24). Similarly, the Apostle John instructs believers to "try the spirits" (1 John 4:1), but in the same verse, he identifies the spirits with false prophets.

Do you still want to learn about that section or happy with you ethereal spirits belief?

F2F

You totally disregard the next verse.

 

[Grailhunter]

This BELIEF is the Foundation God laid in Genesis and Confirmed in the Gospel and by the Apostles and finally Revelation

Are you still in the Dark Ages???

Remember, even if you stick your head in the sand, your rear end is still sicking up!

 

[face2face]

You totally disregard the next verse.

Are you often this vague?

Do you mean this verse?

1Pe 3:19 - by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Becuase the verse after that priovides you the context!

after they were disobedient long ago when God patiently waited in the days of Noah as an ark was being constructed. In the ark a few, that is eight souls, were delivered through water. 1 Pe 3:20.

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63

The passage does not state that Jesus personally preached to the spirits in prison, but rather, it says, "by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:19). It was the "Spirit of Christ" in Noah who preached to the spirits in prison—living individuals in bondage to sin and death—many years before Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod (Matthew 2:1). Through the Holy Spirit given to the prophets (2 Peter 1:21), they were able to speak as if they were Christ. Consider the following passages:

• "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." (Psalm 16:10; cf. Acts 2:26-27)
• "Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me." (Isaiah 8:18; cf. Hebrews 2:13)
• "A body hast thou prepared me." (Hebrews 10:5; cf. Psalm 40:6)

Literally, there was no flesh or body of Christ when these words were written. The Spirit of Christ in the prophets enabled them to foretell "the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow" (1 Peter 1:11). Noah, "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), "being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith" (Hebrews 11:7).

Check the context RLT and you will find truth!

F2F

It's called confirmation bias. You find scripture to back up what you already believe instead of looking at the big picture. You're not alone, we all do it.
You make a good case but we disagree

 

[David in NJ]

Remember, even if you stick your head in the sand, your rear end is still sicking up!

lol

No worries for i have the mind of Christ, in Heaven and on earth.

 

[Grailhunter]

lol

No worries for i have the mind of Christ, in Heaven and on earth.

And you have a fertile mind!

How can you lose!

 

[face2face]

It's called confirmation bias. You find scripture to back up what you already believe instead of looking at the big picture. You're not alone, we all do it.
You make a good case but we disagree

For the most part, people fall short because they miss the context. This happens frequently—when you understand the context, you can grasp the principles being taught. It also becomes clear that the subject is not focused on what happened during Jesus' death in the tomb, but rather on a larger narrative.
F2F

 

[face2face]

@RLT63

Peter, through inspiration, uses a powerful analogy. He says, "the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..." (1 Pet. 3:21). The entire human race is depicted as a community of prisoners, condemned to death because of sin. Even while awaiting the inevitable judgment, they are "all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Heb. 2:15). The way of escape from this prison is through baptism into Jesus Christ, the antitypical ark. "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Gal. 3:27).

You know this is true but resist it due to what you describe as "confirmation bias." You need Jesus to be alive in death to support the Trinitarian doctrine, and you are willing to twist and manipulate Scripture to make that fit.

What I will do is declare truth in the hope you will lay down your dogma and accept truth.

F2F

 

[face2face]

You make a good case but we disagree

What I'm finding in this thread is many good cases have been presented but none from the other side?

Why is that?

I would say Brakelite has provided the most in terms of substance (pardon the pun) but for the most, its been a lackluster effort.

F2F

 

[Grailhunter]

But, as with many of the official doctrines of man, what Rome proposed and what the regional churches and the people believed were many times different than the prescribed doctrines coming out of Rome. The one God formulas for the Trinity was/is abstract and incongruent. So many in that time period did not agree with the one God concept, and many believed in the authoritative position of God the Father. That with all due respect to Yeshua, they believed that Yahweh was God Almighty and the Creator God. They visualized God the Father, and God the Son sitting on thrones in Heaven.
So as it was the one God formula was not true or accurate but it did shutdown the arguments by outlawing public objections….

Now a days people do not have worry about excommunication they can believe anything they want, just start a denomination.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where does it say Jesus was a Spirit?

Jesus was the Messiah, he wasn’t a Spirit, Jesus came with the good news.
Jesus is not God.he was the Son Of God.

Wow @Ritajanice! Seems like you have had an epiphany! You have to be the first “born again” Christian I have ever encountered who has come to reject the trinity based on Scripture......Well done!
If the very foundational doctrine of Christendom is false.....what about the others?

Jesus was “with God” “in the beginning” according to John 1:1, so if he was “with God”, how can he be God?.....he must have been a spirit “son of God” before he came in the flesh....(Rev 3:14) because humans cannot exist in the spirit realm.... he was ”sent” by his God and Father.....So being “with God” doesn’t mean he was God....only that he was divine...God-like in every way.
It says that he is the image of the invisible God....how can a visible being be the image of someone invisible? Only in character and personality.

Col 1:15 tells us that Jesus is “the firstborn of ALL creation”, IOW, he existed before all creation, including the things in heaven. The fact that he was used as the agency of creation means that creation came “through” him, not from him. (John 1:2-3; Prov 8:30-31) He was not the Creator, but used by the Creator to “make” everything else. This son was “with God in the beginning”.....but since God is eternal, what “beginning” is this talking about?

Look deeper.....the revelations will keep coming.....

 

[RLT63]

But, as with many of the official doctrines of man, what Rome proposed and what the regional churches and the people believed were many times different than the prescribed doctrines coming out of Rome. The one God formulas for the Trinity was/is abstract and incongruent. So many in that time period did not agree with the one God concept, and many believed in the authoritative position of God the Father. That with all due respect to Yeshua, they believed that Yahweh was God Almighty and the Creator God. They visualized God the Father, and God the Son sitting on thrones in Heaven.
So as it was the one God formula was not true or accurate but it did shutdown the arguments by outlawing public objections….

Now a days people do not have worry about excommunication they can believe anything they want, just start a denomination.

If I understand you believe in the Trinity but not one God, one Godhead. What do you do with all the scriptures like the Lord our God is one?