THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[RLT63]

No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. John 3:13

Maybe your raised ones are still roaming the earth

Until they died again ? we really don't know because the Bible doesn't elaborate

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63 only one man has been raised to Eternal Life!

I agree, with exceptions for Enoch and Elijah. Not sure what their status is

 

[face2face]

Can you not read the verses for yourself? What do I need to explain?
Someone can kill you but not your soul, only God can destroy the soul, what does that say to you about your soul?
JWs say a soul just means a person but these verses say otherwise.
I think you could understand the verses without my commentary

The phrase "Rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell" proves that the soul is destructible and, therefore, not immortal.

Shame you were not close in me we could start a Study class together to teach you these elementary truths.

Since both the soul and body can be destroyed in hell (Gehenna, the garbage dump outside Jerusalem), this suggests that the soul is just as destructible as the body, given that both can be destroyed in the same place. Is this the interpretation that those who believe in the immortality of the soul seek from this passage?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Until they died again ? we really don't know because the Bible doesn't elaborate

Some conclusions are clearly obvious but if you are happy to think they are still alive roaming the earth then thats your prerogative.

F2F

 

[RLT63]

@RLT63 only one man has been raised to Eternal Life!

If you mean raised front tire dead and ascended to Heaven, yes

 

[face2face]

@RLT63 careful reading fellow believer!

 

[RLT63]

The phrase "Rather fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell" proves that the soul is destructible and, therefore, not immortal.

Shame you were not close in me we could start a Study class together to teach you these elementary truths.

Since both the soul and body can be destroyed in hell (Gehenna, the garbage dump outside Jerusalem), this suggests that the soul is just as destructible as the body, given that both can be destroyed in the same place. Is this the interpretation that those who believe in the immortality of the soul seek from this passage?

F2F

I no longer believe in eternal conscience torment and believe the soul can be destroyed in Hell.
I don't think people suffer for eternity. The punishment doesn't fit for someone who lived less than 100 years to be punished for eternity.
But you agree by your post that we have a soul

 

[face2face]

I no longer believe in eternal conscience torment and believe the soul can be destroyed in Hell.
I don't think people suffer for eternity. The punishment doesn't fit for someone who lived less than 100 years to be punished for eternity.
But you agree by your post that we have a soul

Yes but not as you do.

What is meant by "not able to kill the soul"? Simply put, it means "Do not fear those who can kill the body, but are not able to destroy you completely and permanently." For the disciple, their life is "hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3), and although men may kill the body, this life will be restored to the body in the resurrection (see Col. 3:4).

You have nothing in you RLT which is immortal

The Greek word "psuche," translated as "soul" in this verse, actually means "life." In Matthew 16:25, "psuche" is translated as "life": "For whoever will save his life ["psuche"] will lose it, and whoever loses his life ["psuche"] for my sake will find it." (In the Revised Standard Version, "psuche" is translated as "life" in verse 26: "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life.") The similar context suggests that "life" in Matthew 10:28 should be understood in place of "soul."

You understand how the word is being used?

to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; Romans 2:7

Who can't seek for something you already have! Which means you don't have it!

F2F

 

[RLT63]

Yes but not as you do.

What is meant by "not able to kill the soul"? Simply put, it means "Do not fear those who can kill the body, but are not able to destroy you completely and permanently." For the disciple, their life is "hidden with Christ in God" (Col. 3:3), and although men may kill the body, this life will be restored to the body in the resurrection (see Col. 3:4).

You have nothing in you RLT which is immortal

The Greek word "psuche," translated as "soul" in this verse, actually means "life." In Matthew 16:25, "psuche" is translated as "life": "For whoever will save his life ["psuche"] will lose it, and whoever loses his life ["psuche"] for my sake will find it." (In the Revised Standard Version, "psuche" is translated as "life" in verse 26: "For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life.") The similar context suggests that "life" in Matthew 10:28 should be understood in place of "soul."

You understand how the word is being used?

to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; Romans 2:7

Who can't seek for something you already have! Which means you don't have it!

F2F

Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believers in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord
To the thief on the cross, Today you will be with me in paradise.
Paul wrote of his desire to be with the Lord and struggled over continuing his ministry or going to be with the Lord.
Stephen saw Heaven when he was being stoned.
I know there is a resurrection but there is also evidence of the heavenly hope in scripture

 

[Grailhunter]

Those that believe in the one God formula cling to a couple scriptures but there are so many scriptures that disagree with this formula directly or by circumstance or congruency of the Gospel storyline. It does happen, people get fascinated by the "one liners" in the Bible and employ imagination to fill in the blanks...it is a good thing that they did not promote the scriptures about hating your mother and father and pretty much your wife and your whole family (Luke 14:46) or the scriptures that says that It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. (Matt. 19:24) Or we would have a religion that only appealed to the poor and they would not consider Christianity unless they hated their mother and father and their whole family. LOL

 

[face2face]

Jhn 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believers in him should not perish, but have everlasting life
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord
To the thief on the cross, Today you will be with me in paradise.
Paul wrote of his desire to be with the Lord and struggled over continuing his ministry or going to be with the Lord.
Stephen saw Heaven when he was being stoned.
I know there is a resurrection but there is also evidence of the heavenly hope in scripture

How long will we do this RLT?

What will be the next waking moment for the thief?

Paul desires to be with his Lord and welcomed death for his next waking moment would be what?

Stephen saw Christ standing looking down ready to act on his behalf and act he did! Acts 9!

It's clear you have foreign knowledge which is forcing notions upon the Word.

F2F

 

[RLT63]

How long will we do this RLT?

What will be the next waking moment for the thief?

Paul desires to be with his Lord and welcomed death for his next waking moment would be what?

Stephen saw Christ standing looking down ready to act on his behalf and act he did! Acts 9!

It's clear you have foreign knowledge which is forcing notions upon the Word.

F2F

Just reading what the Bible says.
It is possible, as H. Lagard Smith says that the dead sleep until the resurrection but it will seem spontaneous to them

 

[face2face]

Just reading what the Bible says.
It is possible, as H. Lagard Smith says that the dead sleep until the resurrection but it will seem spontaneous to them

The Word of God requires specific keys to reveal its truths.

 

[Aunty Jane]

All throughout scripture = KEY = Who was Jesus BEFORE HE came to earth?

Here are 3 scriptures that unequivocally declare that CHRIST is a SPIRIT and that Christ is GOD

Jesus was definitely a spirit, but his “divinity” does not make him “deity”.

In the Ten Commandments, putting any other “god” in place of the Father was the first thing on the forbidden list. Christendom has put not one, but two other “gods” in the Father’s place.
This Catholic inspired doctrine identified their three gods as “God the Father”...”God the Son”....and “God the Holy Spirit”......that is three gods.....whereas the Bible identifies only the Father as “ho theos”. (Psalm 83:18 KJV)

John 1:1 = In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Read it in Greek...it doesn’t say that....
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, (“ho theos”, Yahweh) and the Word was God (“theos” a divine one).”
There were no capital letters, and so no way to present “god” as “God” in Greek.
“Theos” is any god or goddess....a deity or divinity. Even satan is called “theos”.
Human judges in Israel were called “theos” by God himself, (John 10:31-36) so the designation “theos” does not make Jesus “God” with a capital “G”....it can mean that he was endowed with divine authority as he said in Matt 28:18. Does God need to give authority to himself or to his equal?

1 Peter 1:11
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,
searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

The prophets of old did not know Jesus as “the Christ” (or anointed one).....the long awaited “Messiah”....but the Scriptures told them he was coming...and Daniel’s prophesies told them when to expect him. It was foretold that he would suffer, but in his death mankind would be saved. By his resurrection, God proved his power over death, raising his son to life after 3 days in his tomb. 40 days later he returned to where he was “before the founding of the world”....at his Father’s side in heaven.

Did you know that there is not one single scripture that says the Holy Spirit is at God’s left hand? In fact most mention of Father and son together, leaves the Holy Spirit unacknowledged. Can you tell me why a supposedly equal person of the trinity is invariably missing?

but if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him.

So what is “the spirit of Christ”....is it the same as “the spirit of God”...and what does it actually mean to have “the spirit of Christ”? What does it mean to be “of him”?
Please explain what that means.....

 

[Aunty Jane]

It’s HOW you say it. It’s not that I have attention deficit, it’s that you pontificate beyond reason - way beyond reason.

The Bible is a big book....what it contains is not given to ten second attention spans.
I don’t just read the Bible, but I have studied it deeply for decades. If what I share is too much for you, then so be it...as I said, I don’t just write for you....others may have the attention span needed to answer questions fully and to cover issues in a detailed manner. The details make a lot of difference to out understanding if our minds are open.

You are set on your path and that is entirely your prerogative....others might not be, so an informed choice should be thoroughly informed, not just provided in concentrated bites for lazy minds.

Something is seriously wrong when you have to write MUCH longer posts than the average bear. Not sure why you feel entitled to so much of people’s time, including my time, but I am under no obligation to read more than as little as I choose.

There is no one with a big stick forcing people to read anything, so what I provide is what I have learned after deep study and I share it with anyone who wants to learn more than a few paragraphs will provide. Isn’t that why text books are sometimes in volumes? Those interested will read.....

You must be aware of this general critic of JW evangelism.

What is evangelism Wrangler?
Paul wrote to Timothy...
“You, though, keep your senses in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelizer, fully accomplish your ministry.”

When Jesus sent his disciples out to preach, what did he tell them to do?
Matt 10:11-14..
“ Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12  When you enter the house, greet the household. 13  If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14  Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.”

This was not the work of just the apostles.....but for those who accepted the message.... they in turn then preached to others. This is how Christianity spread.

Jesus’ parting words to his apostles, were......
“Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20  teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

What you do is up to you, but evangelising (including preaching and teaching) was a command, not just a suggestion or recommendation.

 

[Ritajanice]

Colossians 1:15-17 - Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: (Read More...)

John 5:19 - Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 8:28 - Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.

2 Corinthians 4:4 - In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Hebrews 1:3 - Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

John 1:18 - No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[Ritajanice]

Colossians 1

King James Version

​

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Jesus was not God.

That makes not an ounce of sense.

Not God that’s for sure.my opinion.

Sorry none of that says Jesus is God.

BLASPHEMY! You are in danger girl! Be very careful.

@amigo de christo

 

[Ritajanice]

BLASPHEMY! You are in danger girl! Be very careful.
View attachment 53711
@amigo de christo

Posting scripture quotes is meaningless...only the Living Holy Spirit can show me my error...not by you trying to fear monger,, by posting scriptures ,like I’ve already explained ,we must be reborn in our spirit..you imo, have no knowledge of spiritual matters,all you ever do is post reams and reams of scripture quotes, that you actually think is associated with the trinity, no more no less, I’ve have discernment, I can see many of your scripture quotes are aimed at me at times,ie, false prophets, etc...they bounce off because they come from you and only you..you interpret them to mean what you believe them to mean, like I said, I see no spiritual words ever coming out of your mouth, just religion.and scripture quotes..

Nowhere in scripture does God say that Jesus is God.,Jesus was Born a man and his mother was Mary..

Flesh and blood his name was Jesus, no scripture to support that Jesus was Born a spirit, what a ridiculous statement....he was born a man, he was God’s Son ,just as the word says.,.

Why don’t you try and give some testimony on how Jesus was sent by God to deliver the good news, it would make a nice change from your usual routine of posting bible quotes at random...that don’t even associate with the topics in hand most of the time..I can see you hide behind them and use them as a weapon a lot of the time..which certainly don’t glorify God...also I advise you to look to God Alone, he hates the fact that some follow men and their teaching, worshipping them as though they are God...I'm warning you, because I’ve done the same...I pray that God shows you what he showed me..by idolising and worshipping man’s teaching ...

 

[Scott Downey]

Mystery is defined as something that is difficult or impossible to understand or explain:
As is the mystery of Godliness.

God was manifested in the flesh as Christ who had no earthly father, only an earthly mom.
As God is Christ's Father. And Christ is God's Son, He has no spiritual mom.
He is both God and Man joined. So then the virgin birth was necessary, according to the flesh.
He took on Human form, since children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same.
We also when we believe, our spirits are joined as one spirit with God, as we are all of one family, so we are saved as God saves His family to be with Him forever.

1 Tim 3
15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and [a]ground of the truth. 16 And without controversy great is the [b]mystery of godliness:

God[c] was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.