The social gospel?

[Episkopos]

You just accused me of not being a Christian. of not being born again.

I assume all here are first cut believers. But few will have believed INTO Christ...to be where He is and walk in full sanctification. In Him is no sin. Is it wrong to desire your sanctification? Didn't Paul also desire that very thing to those whom he taught?

We are not allowed to say that, regarding other member of this forum., according to the Forum Rules

Are you too stupid to realize it?
Must be so..

I never allow myself to estimate your lack of intelligence...or your lower IQ...but only what you are ignorant about regarding biblical things.

Time you did realize it, @Episkopos

Do you have a watch? Can you tell time? Can you discern the sign of the times?

 

[Episkopos]

Ive never used that word in any post ive written to you, or in any Thread ive ever posted on any Forum.. including this one.

You are again, more then confused.... @Episkopos

This is @Behold response to my post

Episkopos said:


PS: The devil hates that word "liberation" from sin.



(Look up to his response in the talk box above)

You just defended yourself as the devil. A slip-up? a "Freudian" slip? And "that word" treated as something bad to utter..."liberation"???

 

[Behold]

I assume all here are first cut believers.

You also assumed that you can accuse born again Christians of not being saved., when the Forum rules DO NOT ALLOW IT.

And you've been here on this forum, for a very long time.. so you have no excuse,....

So, Lets see how that is going to work out for you, @Episkopos ,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Cross of Christ is the Proof that Jesus has all my sin... @Eternally Grateful
Thats not "deception", that's Salvation.

I did not ask you this

I asked if you still sin

"God hath made Jesus to be SIN... for US".. ................and not just some of it.

A.) "US".. is all the believer's born again.

So, if Christ does not have ALL your sin, then you have it, and if you have it, its not forgive by Christ's Sacrifice Yet.... Reader.

He has all my sin

It does not mean I am so decieved I think I no longer sin

If you want to be decieved feel free

 

[Behold]

You just defended yourself as the devil.

Show me where i said i "hate" that word?, as your post stated it?

You'll never find it.

So, when you try to redefine "Forgiveness of Sin", as "liberation", to try to deny the Cross of Christ again... its not the Devil you are insulting... @Episkopos

 

[Episkopos]

You also assumed that you can accuse born again Christians of not being saved., when the Forum rules DO NOT ALLOW IT.

1st cut believers are saved from the world and condemnation with the world. But these are not saved from the power of the flesh. That requires going to the cross as Paul says...It is no longer I...

Maybe you hate the doctrine of Paul?

And you've been here on this forum, for a very long time.. so you have no excuse,....

So, Lets see how that is going to work out for you, @Episkopos ,

Accuser of the brethren....for a VERY long time. Let's see how that will work out.

 

[Episkopos]

Show me where i said i "hate" that word?, as your post stated it?

You'll never find it.

So, when you try to redefine "Forgiveness of Sin", as "liberation", to try to deny the Cross of Christ again... its not the Devil you are insulting... @Episkopos

You don't believe the gospel...and the liberation from sin...that Jesus came to liberate those in prison. You want amnesty to keep sinning and call that the gospel. You are comfortable in your sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1st cut believers are saved from the world and condemnation with the world. But these are not saved from the power of the flesh. That requires going to the cross as Paul says...It is no longer I...

Maybe you hate the doctrine of Paul?

Accuser of the brethren....for a VERY long time. Let's see how that will work out.

Nothing her shows you have an understanding of what saves.

what good is t to be saved here on earth if we will be seperated from God for eternity

 

[Behold]

He has all my sin

Exactly.
And Jesus has all mine, and died for them all.

So, if you do something today, that is carnal, then because you are "not under the Law, but under Grace", then Grace defines what you did as a "work of the Flesh".. but Grace does not define it as "sin", as only the Law can define you and your carnality as "a sinner sinning"... and "you are not under the Law.. but UNDER GRACE"....

Notice.
Once you became a CHRISTian, you are now defined as a "SAINT".........not a sinner,

Never again, are you a "sinner", and that is because the righteousness of God, is become yours as "The Gift of Righteousness".

Jesus has become all your sin, and you have become "the imputed Righteousness of Christ".

Read Romans 4:8..

Paul explains that God will never charge you with sin, ever again.

Why not?

Because Jesus has "Become your sin", and He has been JUDGED For them all, already, on the Cross.

Welcome to : Salvation

Its "the GIFT of Righteousness"

 

[Behold]

1st cut believers are saved from the world

Real Born again Christians, are forgiven all their sin, and are become "born again" as a "new Creation in Christ" and are now "seated in Heavenly Places".. as "ONE with God".

That is what it means to have become a 'SON/Daughter" of God.....>"made Righteous"..

 

[Episkopos]

Nothing her shows you have an understanding of what saves.

what good is t to be saved here on earth if we will be seperated from God for eternity

Exactly...about the second part. In a great house there are both vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour.

I am showing how to avoid being cut-off or spit out. The wise will listen and depart from iniquity....the foolish ones will confidently strut into disaster.

 

[Behold]

You don't believe the gospel..

What you meant to say, is that i dont believe your false gospel that denies that "The Cross is about Forgiveness". and that Jesus is ":"whipping boy"

So, you are correct, i reject your false Cross denying Gospel as this... Galatians 1:8

That's your false Gospel... that YOU Teach, that YOU try to sell Christians.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly.
And Jesus has all mine, and died for them all.

So, if you do something today, that is carnal, then because you are "not under the Law, but under Grace", then Grace defines what you did as a "work of the Flesh".. but Grace does not define it as "sin", as only the Law can define you and your carnality as "a sinner sinning"... and "you are not under the Law.. but UNDER GRACE"....

Notice.
Once you became a CHRISTian, you are now defined as a "SAINT".........not a sinner,

Never again, are you a "sinner", and that is because the righteousness of God, is become yours as "The Gift of Righteousness".

Jesus has become all your sin, and you have become "the imputed Righteousness of Christ".

Read Romans 4:8..

Paul explains that God will never charge you with sin, ever again.

Why not?

Because Jesus has "Become your sin", and He has been JUDGED For them all, already, on the Cross.

Welcome to : Salvation

Its "the GIFT of Righteousness"

The word sin means to miss the mark

anytime you do anything of the flesh you miss the mark

John said if we (he included himself) we decieve ourselves

i will not be decieved to think I have no sin

It also says there is no truth in us if we claim we have no sin.

so will you be decieved with no truth or confess your sin to god and as then others apostle said, to each other so you have healing

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Exactly...about the second part. In a great house there are both vessels of honour and vessels of dishonour.

I am showing how to avoid being cut-off or spit out. The wise will listen and depart from iniquity....the foolish ones will confidently strut into disaster.

You have to be saved first.

If your still dead in sin nothing else matters

You deny the purpose of the cross (to save you from th wage of sin) and Try to get to the end (holiness) first.

Your going at it backwards.

 

[Behold]

I am showing how to avoid being cut-off or spit out.

Jesus said..

"All that believe in me, i give unto you eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell (Perish).


So once again, Jesus denies what you teach @Episkopos

 

[Johann]

This is @Behold response to my post

Episkopos said:


PS: The devil hates that word "liberation" from sin.



(Look up to his response in the talk box above)

You just defended yourself as the devil. A slip-up? a "Freudian" slip? And "that word" treated as something bad to utter..."liberation"???

To proclaim liberty.—Phrase and thought are taken from the law of the Year of Jubilee (Lev_25:10; Eze_46:17; Jer_34:8).
SONGS OF DELIVERANCE
Concerning the Lord, the Psalmist said, “Thou art my hiding place; Thou shalt preserve
me from trouble; Thou shalt compass me about with SONGS OF DELIVERANCE. Selah.”
Surely the three young men in Nebuchadnezzar’s fiery furnace had A SONG OF
DELIVERANCE. They defied the idolatrous king, and said, “our God, Whom we serve, is able
to deliver us.” (Daniel 3:17).
In the case of Daniel in the lion’s den, it was the idolatrous king who gave forth the
message of deliverance; for Darius said to Daniel, “Servant of the living God, is thy God able to
deliver thee from the lions?” (Daniel 6:20).
We are told in Romans 11:26 that a Deliverer is coming out of Sion to deliver Israel. That
Deliverer is the Lord Jesus Christ. He was born into this world as a King to deliver Israel from
the hands of her enemies, (Luke 1:67 to 71). Hear His own words in Luke 4:18, “He hath
anointed Me to preach DELIVERANCE to the captives.” God’s own people were slaves under
the Gentiles.
But concerning Christ, they said, “we will not have this man to reign over us.” Luke
19:14. To them He said, “ye shall not see Me henceforth till ye shall say, Blessed is He That
cometh in the name of the Lord.” (Matthew 23:39). That will be the time when the Deliverer
shall come out of Sion and Israel shall be saved. (Romans 11:26).
The first time Israel hated Him without a cause and by wicked hands crucified Him.
(John 15:25 - Acts 2:22). But He was DELIVERED according to the determinate counsel and
foreknowledge of God (Acts 2:23).
Read the wonderful truth in Romans 8:32 and Romans 4:25: “He that spared not His own
Son, but DELIVERED HIM UP FOR US ALL, how shall He not with Him freely give us all
things?” “Who was DELIVERED FOR OUR OFFENCES, and was raised again for our
justification.”
Christ said before His death, “The Son of man must be DELIVERED into the hands of
sinful men and be crucified, and the third day rise again.” (Luke 24:7).
Because Christ was DELIVERED up to Calvary’s death Christians are compassed about
with SONGS OF DELIVERANCE.
Hear the wonderful truth of Hebrews 2:14 and 15: “Forasmuch then as the children are
partakers of flesh and blood, He (Christ) also Himself likewise took part of the same; that
through death, He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. And
DELIVER them, who through fear of death, were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
Think of being delivered from the fear of death. This is but one of the Christian’s songs
of deliverance.
DELIVERED from the wrath to come. (I Thessalonians 1:10). DELIVERED from the
power of darkness. (Colossians 1:13). DELIVERED from the present evil age. (Galatians 1:4).
DELIVERED from the terrors of the law. (Romans 7:6). DELIVERED from judgment and
temptations. (II Peter 2:9). DELIVERED from the body of this death. (Romans 7:24).
DELIVERED from the lion’s mouth. (II Timothy 4:17).
We trust in God: “Who DELIVERED us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in
Whom we trust that He will yet deliver us.” II Corinthians 1:10.
We can surely say, with Darius: “He delivereth and rescueth, and He worketh signs and
wonders in heaven and in earth, Who hath delivered Daniel from the power of the lions.” Daniel
6:27.
Visit the J. C. O’Hair Online Library at J. C. O'Hair Online Library
A great deliverance is coming to Israel and then to all the human race. “In Jerusalem shall
be deliverance.” (Joel 2:32 - Obadiah 17). “The creature shall be delivered from the bondage of
corruption.” (Romans 8:21).

Satan is the god of this age. (II Corinthians 4:4). Satan gathers the seed that falls by the
wayside. (Mark 4:15). The lake of fire is prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41).
The devil is accused of deceiving the whole world. (Revelation 12:9). Christ declared that no
man could take the strong man’s house until first he had bound the strong man. (Matthew 12:29).
Note the mission on which the Lord Jesus sent the apostle Paul: “To open their eyes, and to turn
them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive
forgiveness of sins and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in Me.”
Satan as a roaring lion walketh about seeking whom he may devour. (I Peter 5:8 - Acts 26:18).

Now hear the good news in Christ Jesus: “That the righteousness of the law might be
fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:4). “That as sin hath
reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus
Christ our Lord.” (Romans 5:21). “Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that
through this Man (Christ) is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by Him all that
believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
(Acts 13:38 and 39). Dwell on this blessed and glorious good news. The heathen to whom Paul
preached were not under the law before they were saved by grace, and certainly not thereafter. (I
Corinthians 9:20 to 25).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But what good will this do in the eternal perspective
A law is given for a reason

A law is given for a reason
When I think of “the perfect law of Liberty” and what reason it is given ….I’m not disputing God is full of compassion, full of Mercy, Grace and Forgiveness…but if I had to share the reason for “the perfect law of Liberty” given it is …continuing therein, beholding the glory of the Lord, being transformed into the same image of glory one degree to another: for this comes from the Lord who is Spirit. —in this I don’t think it’s wrong to say “it’s a passage” or “a way” or that it’s about “sanctification”

James 1:23-25 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: [24] For he sees himself, and goes his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man he was. [25] But whosever looks into the perfect law of liberty, and continues therein(entering in), he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

So the guilty can be charged. If there is no law you can not charge the guilty as James said if we keep the whole law yet even stumble in one point we are guilty of the whole law.

Still I think it’s to cast down all vain imaginations so “he doesn’t forget what manner of man he was” and returns to “going his own way” ….instead looking into the law of Liberty, entering in…and is transformed

The purpose of the law was so Israel would be ready when Jesus came. What is the first thing the law had to show them! Their guilt.
Why did they reject Christ? They did not understand their guilt so when John the Baptist told them to repent. They were like if what? I keep the law (which they did not)

Their high-mindedness. Trying to say we keep the law of Moses makes us high minded and judgmental. My mother tells me a story of an aunt who wore long dresses that covered her feet to her chin and to wrist. Mom talks still at 93 how this aunt frightened her where she walked around spanking and yelling at the young girls if they didn’t wear what the aunt wore they would never amount to anything worth anything but end up whores. Maybe this aunt needs to be unleashed on the barely-any-clothing today but at the heart of this aunt (just an opinion) was high Mindedness. The law of Moses to me is to remind us to have mercy grace and yes forgiveness, to remind us of our lowly estate and “to remove our judgment”. See…to remove our judgement…is a “taking off of” changing of clothes from “a judge” …

Sin debt. There is a spiritual separation between us and God. It’s like your in prison the walls separate you from the ones you live. Well we are separated from God. And that debt has to be paid so we can be released from prison and our relationship restored

To me it’s having been brainwashed. The separation from God began with that first whisper of “God is not good.” To me what Adam and Eve lacked was …they believed the liar. Instead of that God is good and …out of not believing God is good they remained in the darkness instead of coming out into the Light. It was His list against them…He already knew they sinned and He desires Mercy. It was their lack of …it is better to Trust God instead of a voice that says, God is not good. That was the separation. It’s like lying and all that I’ve done wrong. If I truly believe God is good. Then why would I hide from Him? Unless I believe He is not good, then I keep the truth hidden in darkness. Even though I say “God is good.” My lack of trust says otherwise. Do I really believe He is good? It’s not the long list of guilt. It’s do I trust Him with it? all just my opinion.

They had never seen death before. No they were the cause of that death. That had to hurt deeply. That they caused it. I do not think we can fathom

You missed the point I was trying to make. Where God clothed them with something dead. It doesn’t sound like God to me to clothe men with something dead. I went back to read the verse. This is only my questions. It doesn’t say he killed an animal to clothe them. We fill in the blanks. I asked my husband… “what does it say to you? Why doesn’t it say he killed an animal” … my husband said “maybe it allows us to decide.” Did God clothe them with something dead? How do we know that isn’t the first mention of “the lamb slain before the foundation”? How do we fill in the blanks of “God made coats of skin and clothed them?”

Maybe He did clothe them with something dead. Because I think of Romans 8:20-21For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

But still…you may say I’ve now lost my mind even to question the first ever animal slain. But it wasn’t the first slain. The lamb was slain before the foundation as …Gods provision for man to put on the clothing God provides.

I just don’t understand how we fill in the blanks of what is “implied” and never pause…we say a guiltless animal? How do we know it was guiltless? Does that mean every cow and chicken and anything else slaughtered is guiltless. How do we romanticize God performing the first sacrifice of animal slaughter where Adam and Eve just scared to death because the voice whispered to them “is God truly good?” Now there they stand and God slays the first ever animal and skins it in front of them to clothe their nakedness with? Yes, sounds like they had an eye opening experience. Where satan is laughing off at the side saying “yes! here comes mens works of animal sacrifice! Let’s do what makes not perfect!!! Yes yes!” Yet …it wasn’t the first sacrifice? It wasn’t the first animal slain…because before this horrific scene of “blood shed” they are witnessing …were they (Adam and Eve) still hiding in the shadows, were they still hiding in the darkness behind that one tree watching GOD slay this innocent animal to clothe them in? Before this animal slain …was “a Lamb slain before the foundation” …how do we know that wasn’t the “innocent” animal God slew to cover Adam and Eve? Just curious how we fill in the blanks and say it’s implied.

Circling back to a reason…
A law is given for a reason
The law of Liberty…
by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

….Delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

 

[Episkopos]

You have to be saved first.

If your still dead in sin nothing else matters

You deny the purpose of the cross (to save you from th wage of sin) and Try to get to the end (holiness) first.

Your going at it backwards.

The believers that say Lord, Lord, and are rejected as lawless....workers of iniquity... were they sanctified first or forgiven first?

A person who is forgiven can still be dead in their sins. The problem isn't a lack of forgiveness...but the lack of grace which is the power over sin and the death of the sin nature.

If you lack such grace there is the throne of grace that we are admonished to go before.

 

[Lizbeth]

To attach forgiveness to atonement means you don't think that God is forgiving by nature.

There seem to be some things you are missing about this subject of God's character. In spite of God's mercy to Cain as pertains to this life, I doubt poor Cain has inherited eternal life (see Jude). And in spite of the rain mercifully falling on the just and unjust alike, it's pretty certain we will not see the unjust in heaven one day. Even the righteous Jews under the Law could only be justified if they had FAITH. So yes, God has mercy in some ways and at certain times, and He may forgive specific things.......but that doesnt' mean He is going to give everyone eternal life. That is an entirely different question. Bible says that man without God is like the beasts of the earth that PERISH.....does He owe eternal life to animals.?...Is He violating His character not to grant eternal life to the beasts of the earth? No, His mercy and kindness to mankind is already shown in that He feeds us and allows us to live out our days under the sun.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The believers that say Lord, Lord, and are rejected as lawless....workers of iniquity... were they sanctified first or forgiven first?

No they were not. Because like you they thought their works are what saved them. That’s why instead of falling on their faces they tried to approach god by all their great works

A person who is forgiven can still be dead in their sins.

No they would not be

Although the body is dead because of sin the spirit is alive because of righteousness (gods forgiveness)

The problem isn't a lack of forgiveness...but the lack of grace which is the power over sin and the death of the sin nature.

Forgiveness is grace

You are trying to get to god by how good you are. That will not work

If you lack such grace there is the throne of grace that we are admonished to go before.

No one lacks grace the fact we live is by grace. What we do with that grace is what matters