The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen 1 Thessalonians 4 NKJVasleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus.


15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

You asked:
Do you believe in soul sleep?

"Soul sleep" is not a scriptural term.

Here is what scripture teaches about death:

When a person physically dies, they are dead and they have no consciousness. At that time, their spirit returns to God.

If the person is saved, scripture equates their state of death to be like "sleep". Though they are dead and have no consciousness, they are spiritually alive. This means that the person has no sin within them.

That truth is what Christ is referring to below:

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

After Christ died on the cross, He was literally dead for three days. He had no consciousness. He, too, entered into "sleep" like His Elect do. Upon His resurrection, He was given a new spiritual body and life returned to Him. However, like His Elect, He never spiritually died:

John 19:32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

The spiritual term "bones" represents spiritual life. If the bones are said to be broken, the person has spiritually died. In contrast, if the bones are said not to be broken, the person is spiritually alive.

That is what this prophecy below concerning Christ means:

Psa 34:20 He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken.

The bodily resurrection from the grave for the Elect is still a future event. It will occur at the end of the this present age. All the Apostles and other Elect who have died are still in the grave and have no consciousness. They are not in heaven looking down upon us as most people believe. This false understanding of death is commonly stated at funerals to give comfort to the loved ones of the deceased but there is no truth in it.

Joe

Joe says: "If the person is saved, scripture equates their state of death to be like "sleep". Though they are dead and have no consciousness, they are spiritually alive. This means that the person has no sin within them."

Dear Joe,

ONLY the physical body dies - never the soul/spirit of a Blood Washed Saint because their sins have been washed away.

The scripture ONLY refers to those whose physical bodies die and thus "sleep in the earth" = Isaiah 26:19 and 1 Thess 4:13-18

Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.


But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep/DIED, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/DIED in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep/Dead.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[FaithWillDo]

@FaithWillDo - Joe says:

"Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Do you believe that Christ is referring to His Gospel in the verse above? He is not. He is talking about the "another gospel" which Satan will teach to His Elect."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Joe,
You are currently involved with people who are void of the Holy Spirit of Truth.

It is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that in Matthew 24:14 JESUS is speaking of His Gospel of the Kingdom as a Witness to all nations.

Acts chapter 1 confirms this as well as many many scripture passages.

And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

6So when they came together, they asked Him, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Dear David in NJ,
As I have said, I do not associate with any groups or churches. I receive my truth directly from scripture by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

As for Mat 24:14, your understanding of that verse is carnal and not spiritual.

This scripture apples to you:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

All of Matthew chapter 24 is teaching on the pathway to salvation which Christ will cause His Elect to travel during their lifetimes. None of the events teach outward future events. The events are spiritually fulfilled within each Elect believer. If a believer does not experience the events which Christ mentions in that chapter, they will not be saved before then die.

As for the Kingdom being restored to physical Israel, it will never happen. The Kingdom is spiritual. To be saved, a person must become a spiritual descendant of Abraham. This requires a spiritual conversion which happens when Christ gives the Latter Rain to a person. The physical Nation of Israel will never possess the Kingdom of Heaven - the flesh counts for nothing.

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be converted into spiritual Israel. At that time, Christ will deliver up the Kingdom to God the Father. Only then will God be "all in all" (1Cor 15:28).

At the time the Apostles asked Christ about restoring the Kingdom to Israel, they were still spiritually blind and carnally minded. They didn't understand what they were asking. When Christ answered them, He told them how the Kingdom was going to be restored but they did not understand. But later, after they were converted on the Day of Pentecost, they were given "eyes that can see" and the truth of Christ's words opened up to them.

Because the Nation of Israel had already been "called out from the world", the Apostles only needed to receive the Latter Rain to be converted. The Latter Rain is what Christ is referring to when He said the Apostles would receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon them. With this "power", they became His "witnesses" in all the earth. All the Elect of this age will likewise become His witnesses.

When the Gospel went to the Gentiles, the Gentiles first needed to be "called out from the world" just as the Nation of Israel was called out. This happens when the Early Rain is given to a Gentile. And like the Nation of Israel, the Gentiles will also fall away and become children of the Devil. For that reason, a person in the spirit of Elijah will be sent to the fallen away Gentile believers with the same call of repentance that John the Baptist made to the Nation of Israel. Those who respond to that call will make Christ's path to them "straight". The straight way is by faith alone. The crooked way is the crooked serpent's way of "works". So like Christ did for the Jewish Elect, Christ will cause His Gentile Elect to likewise repent of their "works" so that they will be made ready for Him to come and pour out the Latter Rain.

More on the Early Rain...

When the Early Rain is given to a Gentile unbeliever, the person will enter the church. But because the person remains spiritually blind, they will fall for Satan's deceptions. This will cause them to fall away just as the Nation of Israel did. To be saved, both the Early and Latter Rains are necessary to be converted.

The apostate church is full of believers who have only received the Early Rain. Those churches are places where the "blind lead the blind", and because of such, Satan quickly and easily deceives them. This is how the churches which the Apostles started became apostate and why Early Rain believers all follow "another gospel".

The false gospel of Satan mixes works with faith and is what kills the saints (Mat 24:9, Rev 11:7). Two of the primary doctrines of Satan's gospel are the doctrines of Free Will and Hell. They were created by Satan and are fed to Early Rain believers who readily consume them.

When this happens, Paul says:

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe says: "If the person is saved, scripture equates their state of death to be like "sleep". Though they are dead and have no consciousness, they are spiritually alive. This means that the person has no sin within them."

Dear Joe,

ONLY the physical body dies - never the soul/spirit of a Blood Washed Saint because their sins have been washed away.

The scripture ONLY refers to those whose physical bodies die and thus "sleep in the earth" = Isaiah 26:19 and 1 Thess 4:13-18

Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.


But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep/DIED, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep/DIED in Jesus.

15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep/Dead.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Dear David in NJ,
There is no life without a body, either a physical one or a spiritual one.

For that reason, a bodily resurrection is necessary for life and is why scripture teaches it.

Joe

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
As I have said, I do not associate with any groups or churches. I receive my truth directly from scripture by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

As for Mat 24:14, your understanding of that verse is carnal and not spiritual.

This scripture apples to you:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

All of Matthew chapter 24 is teaching on the pathway to salvation which Christ will cause His Elect to travel during their lifetimes. None of the events teach outward future events. The events are spiritually fulfilled within each Elect believer. If a believer does not experience the events which Christ mentions in that chapter, they will not be saved before then die.

As for the Kingdom being restored to physical Israel, it will never happen. The Kingdom is spiritual. To be saved, a person must become a spiritual descendant of Abraham. This requires a spiritual conversion which happens when Christ gives the Latter Rain to a person. The physical Nation of Israel will never possess the Kingdom of Heaven - the flesh counts for nothing.

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be converted into spiritual Israel. At that time, Christ will deliver up the Kingdom to God the Father. Only then will God be "all in all" (1Cor 15:28).

At the time the Apostles asked Christ about restoring the Kingdom to Israel, they were still spiritually blind and carnally minded. They didn't understand what they were asking. When Christ answered them, He told them how the Kingdom was going to be restored but they did not understand. But later, after they were converted on the Day of Pentecost, they were given "eyes that can see" and the truth of Christ's words opened up to them.

Because the Nation of Israel had already been "called out from the world", the Apostles only needed to receive the Latter Rain to be converted. The Latter Rain is what Christ is referring to when He said the Apostles would receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon them. With this "power", they became His "witnesses" in all the earth. All the Elect of this age will likewise become His witnesses.

When the Gospel went to the Gentiles, the Gentiles first needed to be "called out from the world" just as the Nation of Israel was called out. This happens when the Early Rain is given to a Gentile. And like the Nation of Israel, the Gentiles will also fall away and become children of the Devil. For that reason, a person in the spirit of Elijah will be sent to the fallen away Gentile believers with the same call of repentance that John the Baptist made to the Nation of Israel. Those who respond to that call will make Christ's path to them "straight". The straight way is by faith alone. The crooked way is the crooked serpent's way of "works". So like Christ did for the Jewish Elect, Christ will cause His Gentile Elect to likewise repent of their "works" so that they will be made ready for Him to come and pour out the Latter Rain.

More on the Early Rain...

When the Early Rain is given to a Gentile unbeliever, the person will enter the church. But because the person remains spiritually blind, they will fall for Satan's deceptions. This will cause them to fall away just as the Nation of Israel did. To be saved, both the Early and Latter Rains are necessary to be converted.

The apostate church is full of believers who have only received the Early Rain. Those churches are places where the "blind lead the blind", and because of such, Satan quickly and easily deceives them. This is how the churches which the Apostles started became apostate and why Early Rain believers all follow "another gospel".

The false gospel of Satan mixes works with faith and is what kills the saints (Mat 24:9, Rev 11:7). Two of the primary doctrines of Satan's gospel are the doctrines of Free Will and Hell. They were created by Satan and are fed to Early Rain believers who readily consume them.

When this happens, Paul says:

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Joe

Joe says of David = This scripture apples to you:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

LOVE IT - BEST laugh of the day so far

Dear Joe, You are preaching a false gospel of works by saying:
"All of Matthew chapter 24 is teaching on the pathway to salvation which Christ will cause His Elect to travel during their lifetimes. None of the events teach outward future events. The events are spiritually fulfilled within each Elect believer. If a believer does not experience the events which Christ mentions in that chapter, they will not be saved before then die."

Every Saint/Believer receives Salvation as it is a GIFT that cannot be earned = John chapters 1 thru 3 , Ephesians chapter 2

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
There is no life without a body, either a physical one or a spiritual one.

For that reason, a bodily resurrection is necessary for life and is why scripture teaches it.

Joe

OK, let's SEE if your theory "There is no life without a body, either a physical one or a spiritual one" is Truth.

a.) If you do not have a physical body it means your physical body died and returned to dust/earth = Genesis 3:19

b.) God made us spirit/soul/body - Genesis 2:7 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12

c.) "the body without the spirit is dead... - James 2:26 and 2 Peter 1:12-15 and 2 Cor 12:2 and 2 Cor 5:6-8

d.) our spirit/soul leaves the physical body when the flesh dies = Revelation 6:9-11 , Rev 7:9-17

e.) OT verification = Isaiah 14:9-11 and Luke 20:34-38 and Luke 16:19-31

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
There is no life without a body, either a physical one or a spiritual one.

For that reason, a bodily resurrection is necessary for life and is why scripture teaches it.

Joe

OK, let's SEE if your theory "There is no life without a body, either a physical one or a spiritual one" is Truth.

a.) If you do not have a physical body it means your physical body died and returned to dust/earth = Genesis 3:19 , 1 Thess 4:13-18

b.) God made us spirit/soul/body - Genesis 2:7 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12

c.) "the body without the spirit is dead... - James 2:26 and 2 Peter 1:12-15 and 2 Cor 12:2 and 2 Cor 5:6-8

d.) our spirit/soul leaves the physical body when the flesh dies = 2 Cor 5:6-8 , Revelation 6:9-11 , Rev 7:9-17

e.) OT verification = Isaiah 14:9-11 and Luke 20:34-38 and Luke 16:19-31

 

[Johann]

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Do you believe that Christ is referring to His Gospel in the verse above? He is not. He is talking about the "another gospel" which Satan will teach to His Elect. The "nations" are the thoughts and beliefs of the believer. After Satan's gospel has been fully accepted by one of Christ's Elect, they are ready for the "end to come".

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Do you believe that Christ is referring to His Gospel in the verse above? He is not. He is talking about the "another gospel" which Satan will teach to His Elect. The "nations" are the thoughts and beliefs of the believer. After Satan's gospel has been fully accepted by one of Christ's Elect, they are ready for the "end to come".

So you reckon in Matt 24:14 is not the gospel that shall be preached, but a heteron gospel?

I would submit to you it is the gospel of Yeshua HaMashiach/Jesus Christ/Basileia

And this Besuras HaGeulah of the Malchut will be announced in kol haOlam (all the world) as an edut to all the Goyim, and then will come HaKetz (the End).

εὐαγγέλιον
Transliteration: euangelion
Morphology: N-ANS
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's no.: G2098 (εὐαγγέλιον)
Meaning: The good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).

Transliteration: euangelion
Morphology: N-NNS
Noun - Nominative Neuter Singular
Strong's no.: G2098 (εὐαγγέλιον)
Meaning: The good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).

I am aware of your link-

The Great Mystery Of Christ and His Church - Great Mystery of Christ

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Discussions

greatmysteryofchrist.com

So, when I ask you questions, don't send reams of what you have on your site.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Do you believe that Christ is referring to His Gospel in the verse above? He is not. He is talking about the "another gospel" which Satan will teach to His Elect. The "nations" are the thoughts and beliefs of the believer. After Satan's gospel has been fully accepted by one of Christ's Elect, they are ready for the "end to come".

 

[FaithWillDo]

OK, let's SEE if your theory "There is no life without a body, either a physical one or a spiritual one" is Truth.

a.) If you do not have a physical body it means your physical body died and returned to dust/earth = Genesis 3:19

b.) God made us spirit/soul/body - Genesis 2:7 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12

c.) "the body without the spirit is dead... - James 2:26 and 2 Peter 1:12-15 and 2 Cor 12:2 and 2 Cor 5:6-8

d.) our spirit/soul leaves the physical body when the flesh dies = Revelation 6:9-11 , Rev 7:9-17

e.) OT verification = Isaiah 14:9-11 and Luke 20:34-38 and Luke 16:19-31

Dear David in NJ,

BODY + SPIRIT = A LIVING SOUL

The soul dies when our body dies and our spirit returns to God. The soul is not the same thing as our spirit.

The soul is who we are individually. It is our individual consciousness.

Joe

 

[Johann]

By the end of the final age, all mankind will be converted into spiritual Israel.

Are you a Universalist? Believing that ALL will be saved in the end?

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,

BODY + SPIRIT = A LIVING SOUL

The soul dies when our body dies and our spirit returns to God. The soul is not the same thing as our spirit.
with no soul
The soul is who we are individually. It is our individual consciousness.

Joe

REALLY !!!

Joe believes = as individuals created by God, we die = physically and our individuality/soul dies along with it and only a clone spirit returns to God!

That is not what God says in His Word:

a.) If you do not have a physical body it means your physical body died and returned to dust/earth = Genesis 3:19 , 1 Thess 4:13-18

b.) God made us spirit/soul/body - Genesis 2:7 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 and Hebrews 4:12

c.) "the body without the spirit is dead... - James 2:26 and 2 Peter 1:12-15 and 2 Cor 12:2 and 2 Cor 5:6-8

d.) our spirit/soul leaves the physical body when the flesh dies = 2 Cor 5:6-8 , Revelation 6:9-11 , Rev 7:9-17

e.) OT verification = Isaiah 14:9-11 and Luke 20:34-38 and Luke 16:19-31


The Holy Scriptures has you outnumbered and out-flanked and finds you wandering adrift.

 

[Johann]

Dear David in NJ,
There is no life without a body, either a physical one or a spiritual one.

For that reason, a bodily resurrection is necessary for life and is why scripture teaches it.

Joe

BODY AND SPIRIT

Body and spirit are not an ontological dichotomy in mankind, but a dual relationship to both this planet and to God. The Hebrew word nephesh is used of both mankind (cf. Gen. 2:7) and the animals (cf. Gen. 1:20,24,30; 9:12,15,16) in Genesis, while "spirit" (ruah) is used uniquely of mankind. This is not a proof-text on the nature of mankind as a two-part (dichotomous, cf. 1 Cor. 7:34; Heb. 4:12) or three-part (trichotomous; i.e., Watchman Nee ) being (cf. 1 Thess. 5:23).

Mankind is primarily represented in the Bible as a unity (i.e., "and man became a living being, cf. Gen. 2:7; 2 Cor. 7:1). For a good summary of the theories of mankind as trichotomous, dichotomous, or a unity, see Millard J. Erickson's Christian Theology (second edition), pp. 538-557 and Frank Stagg's Polarities of Man's Existence in Biblical Perspective.

-also-

NEPHESH

"Soul" is the Hebrew word nephesh (BDB 659). We must be careful that we do not mix Greek philosophy with Hebrew Scripture. The OT does not say that we have a soul, but that we are a soul (cf. Gen. 2:7). The word "soul" comes from the Akkadian word napishtu, which signifies the place of breathing or the throat (cf. Ps. 69:2). Humanity's uniqueness is not in the fact that they have a nephesh, for in the early parts of Genesis the animals also had a nephesh (cf. Gen. 1:21, 24; 2:19; Lev. 11:46; 24:18). This is simply a Hebrew idiom that one's physical life on earth ceased when breath departed.

The Hebrew root, נפשׁ (BDB 659, KB 711), is used in several senses in the OT. KB lists several different ways this general word for life/person is used.

"gullet," "throat," or "wind pipe" (Ps. 107:9; Isa. 5:14)
"neck" (Ps. 69:1)
"breath" (i.e., creatures of this planet that breathe air)
humans (Gen. 2:7)
animals (Gen. 1:20)
a living, breathing creature (Gen. 2:19
people (Lev. 24:17)
personality
YHWH (Lev. 26:11)
covenant person (Lev. 26:15)
life (Gen. 9:5; 19:17; Lev. 17:11,14)
soul (Exod. 23:9)
dead soul (Lev. 19:28)
Some of these are overlapping and it is hard to distinguish a difference.

 

[David in NJ]

BIG Question for @FaithWillDo

If a man's soul dies with his physical body and our soul truly is our unique individuality from God,
How then does the LORD Jesus Christ say:
"Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush.
For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

It is not by chance that Luke 20:34-38 follows the REALITY of Luke 16:19-31 = this is a CONFIRMATION by the LORD

This is what the LORD always does = HE confirms His words for those who seek Him, who seek Truth = "Thy word is Truth"

Dear Joe, ditch the teachings of men and believe "every word that comes from the Mouth of God" = Matt 4:4

 

[FaithWillDo]

Joe says of David = This scripture apples to you:

1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

LOVE IT - BEST laugh of the day so far

Dear Joe, You are preaching a false gospel of works by saying:
"All of Matthew chapter 24 is teaching on the pathway to salvation which Christ will cause His Elect to travel during their lifetimes. None of the events teach outward future events. The events are spiritually fulfilled within each Elect believer. If a believer does not experience the events which Christ mentions in that chapter, they will not be saved before then die."

Every Saint/Believer receives Salvation as it is a GIFT that cannot be earned = John chapters 1 thru 3 , Ephesians chapter 2

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Dear David in NJ,

Read my statement again. I said "Christ will cause". These verses apply:

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

The Old Covenant is based upon the man's works. The New Covenant is based upon the works of Christ. When Christ does His work within His Elect, He will cause them to travel the steps of the pathway to salvation He has laid out. The Elect believers have no works which they can claim as their own. For that reason, no person can boast about their own salvation (the scripture you quoted).

And this is why the Elect are shown to cast their crowns before the throne of Christ (they did not earn those crowns, Christ did):

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

You said:
Every Saint/Believer receives Salvation as it is a GIFT that cannot be earned = John chapters 1 thru 3 , Ephesians chapter 2

David, you do not believe what you said above. The "another gospel" you are following has taught you that man's "works" must be added to Christ's works in order for a person to be saved.

Some believers add in many "works" but only one "work" is necessary to cause a believer to fall from grace.

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 2 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 3 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The work that most believers add is their confession of Faith. They believe that their confession comes from their own "free will" decision to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. They take credit for that confession and make it into a "work". They then use that one "work" to explain why they are saved and why others are not. When they do, they are saying that they are smarter, wiser or just not has evil as those who remain steadfast in rejecting Christ. In their own minds, they have justified why the lost are worthy of eternal hell and why they are not. However, this belief is heresy and comes from Satan's gospel which they are following. This belief also gives them something to boast about concerning why they are saved and why others are not.

I once read that one of Satan's minister's (Billy Graham) made an altar call at one of his events. In that call, Billy Graham said to not pray for the people who maybe considering coming forward. He said that they need to make a free will decision to accept Christ and that it should be made without any outside influences.

However, scripture disagrees with Billy Graham.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The only way for an unbeliever to make a confession of faith is to have Christ come to them and do His spiritual work within them beforehand:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Christ does His work by giving them the Holy Spirit (without them asking for it and without their permission). Only with the Holy Spirit indwelling a person can they make a confession of faith. And once they have the Holy Spirit, they can no longer reject him. No man has a free will ability to decide any differently. For this reason, no man can boast about their own salvation. A person's salvation is truly a gift from Christ.

In this age, Christ is only giving the gift of the Holy Spirit (the Early and Latter Rain) to those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world. No one else will be saved in this age. In the final age, Christ will give His gift of the Spirit to the rest of mankind and then this verse will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you still believe that you have nothing to boast about concerning your salvation, then tell me why Christ can't save all mankind as He said He would do? How is stopping Him from giving everyone the free gift of salvation?

Joe

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,

Read my statement again. I said "Christ will cause". These verses apply:

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

The Old Covenant is based upon the man's works. The New Covenant is based upon the works of Christ. When Christ does His work within His Elect, He will cause them to travel the steps of the pathway to salvation He has laid out. The Elect believers have no works which they can claim as their own. For that reason, no person can boast about their own salvation (the scripture you quoted).

And this is why the Elect are shown to cast their crowns before the throne of Christ (they did not earn those crowns, Christ did):

Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

You said:
Every Saint/Believer receives Salvation as it is a GIFT that cannot be earned = John chapters 1 thru 3 , Ephesians chapter 2

David, you do not believe what you said above. The "another gospel" you are following has taught you that man's "works" must be added to Christ's works in order for a person to be saved.

Some believers add in many "works" but only one "work" is necessary to cause a believer to fall from grace.

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 2 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 3 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The work that most believers add is their confession of Faith. They believe that their confession comes from their own "free will" decision to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior. They take credit for that confession and make it into a "work". They then use that one "work" to explain why they are saved and why others are not. When they do, they are saying that they are smarter, wiser or just not has evil as those who remain steadfast in rejecting Christ. In their own minds, they have justified why the lost are worthy of eternal hell and why they are not. However, this belief is heresy and comes from Satan's gospel which they are following. This belief also gives them something to boast about concerning why they are saved and why others are not.

I once read that one of Satan's minister's (Billy Graham) made an altar call at one of his events. In that call, Billy Graham said to not pray for the people who maybe considering coming forward. He said that they need to make a free will decision to accept Christ and that it should be made without any outside influences.

However, scripture disagrees with Billy Graham.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

The only way for an unbeliever to make a confession of faith is to have Christ come to them and do His spiritual work within them beforehand:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Christ does His work by giving them the Holy Spirit (without them asking for it and without their permission). Only with the Holy Spirit indwelling a person can they make a confession of faith. And once they have the Holy Spirit, they can no longer reject him. No man has a free will ability to decide any differently. For this reason, no man can boast about their own salvation. A person's salvation is truly a gift from Christ.

In this age, Christ is only giving the gift of the Holy Spirit (the Early and Latter Rain) to those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world. No one else will be saved in this age. In the final age, Christ will give His gift of the Spirit to the rest of mankind and then this verse will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

If you still believe that you have nothing to boast about concerning your salvation, then tell me why Christ can't save all mankind as He said He would do? How is stopping Him from giving everyone the free gift of salvation?

Joe

Dear Joe,

What do you see here:

“Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath. - Isaiah 45:22-23

 

[FaithWillDo]

So you reckon in Matt 24:14 is not the gospel that shall be preached, but a heteron gospel?

I would submit to you it is the gospel of Yeshua HaMashiach/Jesus Christ/Basileia

And this Besuras HaGeulah of the Malchut will be announced in kol haOlam (all the world) as an edut to all the Goyim, and then will come HaKetz (the End).

εὐαγγέλιον
Transliteration: euangelion
Morphology: N-ANS
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's no.: G2098 (εὐαγγέλιον)
Meaning: The good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).

Transliteration: euangelion
Morphology: N-NNS
Noun - Nominative Neuter Singular
Strong's no.: G2098 (εὐαγγέλιον)
Meaning: The good news of the coming of the Messiah, the gospel; the gen. after it expresses sometimes the giver (God), sometimes the subject (the Messiah, etc.), sometimes the human transmitter (an apostle).

I am aware of your link-

The Great Mystery Of Christ and His Church - Great Mystery of Christ

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Discussions

greatmysteryofchrist.com

So, when I ask you questions, don't send reams of what you have on your site.

Dear Johann,
The pathway to salvation is taught in many, many places of scripture through many different analogies. It is also taught "a little here and a little there" so those teachings much be combined to have a full understanding.

The pathway clearly teaches that before Christ will come to one of His Elect with the Latter Rain, the apostasy must occur first within the believer. On my website, I present many of these scriptures but certainly not all of them.

With this in mind, when Christ says "this gospel of the kingdom" must be preached to the nations before the end can come, Christ can only be referring to Satan's gospel otherwise it would contradict His teachings in other scriptures.

Also, you must remember that Christ teaches only in His spiritual language. That language uses spiritual symbols which have meanings which are different from what man's wisdom teaches. To learn their meanings, we must compare Christ's spiritual words with how they are used elsewhere in scripture. Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, their meanings can be discerned. Christ does it this way to keep His truth concealed from all but those He has given "eyes that can see" - and He only gives these "eyes" to His converted Elect.

Up until the Apostles were converted, they could not understand the teachings of Christ either. But after they were converted, the truth of His teachings were revealed to them. This is the way it works for all of the Elect. Read my explanation of Mark 8:21-25 in my paper "A. The Great Mystery of the Church" for scriptural support.

You asked:
So you reckon in Matt 24:14 is not the gospel that shall be preached, but a heteron gospel?

The gospel that should be preached to the world is the true Gospel of Christ and that is the gospel the writers of the New Testament taught. However, since this world is Satan's world, it is his gospel which is being preached to the world. Satan preaches it to the world through his ministers of the apostate church. This of course, is all in accordance with God's "will". Nothing can happen in this world that is not in accordance with His "will".

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

So what Christ saying in that Mat 24:14 is that after Satan's gospel has been fully accepted by the unconverted Elect believer (and they have been made "worse than the first", Mat 12:43-45), the "end" will come. The "end" comes when He comes to the believer and pours out the Latter Rain.

Read Acts chapter 2 about the conversion of the Apostles. This is when the "end" came to them and it is the same "end" that Mat 24 describes later in the chapter.

Matthew 24 must be understand spiritually and not carnally. The words which Christ uses are spiritual symbols. The events they describe happen within His Elect and do not happen out in the world as most believe.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

BODY AND SPIRIT

Body and spirit are not an ontological dichotomy in mankind, but a dual relationship to both this planet and to God. The Hebrew word nephesh is used of both mankind (cf. Gen. 2:7) and the animals (cf. Gen. 1:20,24,30; 9:12,15,16) in Genesis, while "spirit" (ruah) is used uniquely of mankind. This is not a proof-text on the nature of mankind as a two-part (dichotomous, cf. 1 Cor. 7:34; Heb. 4:12) or three-part (trichotomous; i.e., Watchman Nee ) being (cf. 1 Thess. 5:23).

Mankind is primarily represented in the Bible as a unity (i.e., "and man became a living being, cf. Gen. 2:7; 2 Cor. 7:1). For a good summary of the theories of mankind as trichotomous, dichotomous, or a unity, see Millard J. Erickson's Christian Theology (second edition), pp. 538-557 and Frank Stagg's Polarities of Man's Existence in Biblical Perspective.

-also-

NEPHESH

"Soul" is the Hebrew word nephesh (BDB 659). We must be careful that we do not mix Greek philosophy with Hebrew Scripture. The OT does not say that we have a soul, but that we are a soul (cf. Gen. 2:7). The word "soul" comes from the Akkadian word napishtu, which signifies the place of breathing or the throat (cf. Ps. 69:2). Humanity's uniqueness is not in the fact that they have a nephesh, for in the early parts of Genesis the animals also had a nephesh (cf. Gen. 1:21, 24; 2:19; Lev. 11:46; 24:18). This is simply a Hebrew idiom that one's physical life on earth ceased when breath departed.

The Hebrew root, נפשׁ (BDB 659, KB 711), is used in several senses in the OT. KB lists several different ways this general word for life/person is used.

"gullet," "throat," or "wind pipe" (Ps. 107:9; Isa. 5:14)
"neck" (Ps. 69:1)
"breath" (i.e., creatures of this planet that breathe air)
humans (Gen. 2:7)
animals (Gen. 1:20)
a living, breathing creature (Gen. 2:19
people (Lev. 24:17)
personality
YHWH (Lev. 26:11)
covenant person (Lev. 26:15)
life (Gen. 9:5; 19:17; Lev. 17:11,14)
soul (Exod. 23:9)
dead soul (Lev. 19:28)
Some of these are overlapping and it is hard to distinguish a difference.

Dear Johann,
I agree, scripture does not say that mankind has a soul but that we are a soul. The soul is our individual consciousness.

BODY + SPIRIT = A LIVING SOUL (an individual person)

When the body dies, the soul dies and our spirit returns to God. When the resurrection occurs, God will place our spirit back into a body (either physical or spiritual) and our individual consciousness will then return.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

BIG Question for @FaithWillDo

If a man's soul dies with his physical body and our soul truly is our unique individuality from God,
How then does the LORD Jesus Christ say:
"Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush.
For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”

It is not by chance that Luke 20:34-38 follows the REALITY of Luke 16:19-31 = this is a CONFIRMATION by the LORD

This is what the LORD always does = HE confirms His words for those who seek Him, who seek Truth = "Thy word is Truth"

Dear Joe, ditch the teachings of men and believe "every word that comes from the Mouth of God" = Matt 4:4

Dear David in NJ,
Christ is talking about being spiritually alive, not literally alive. This is just like what He said to Martha in John 11:25. You are understanding scripture in a carnal way instead of a spiritual way.

Christ said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are spiritually alive because they were men of "faith". They will receive the "better resurrection" when they are raised from the grave:

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

At present, just like the Elect who have died, the Old Testament faithful are "asleep". They are literally dead but are spiritually alive awaiting their resurrection from the grave.

Joe

 

[David in NJ]

@Jo

Dear David in NJ,
Christ is talking about being spiritually alive, not literally alive. This is just like what He said to Martha in John 11:25. You are understanding scripture in a carnal way instead of a spiritual way.

Christ said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are spiritually alive because they were men of "faith". They will receive the "better resurrection" when they are raised from the grave:

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

At present, just like the Elect who have died, the Old Testament faithful are "asleep". They are literally dead but are spiritually alive awaiting their resurrection from the grave.

Joe

#1 - You just contradicted yourself.

#2. - According to your belief/doctrine, there is no "they" for the soul dies with the flesh, therefore "they" are dead.

#3 - You contradict the words of the LORD Jesus Christ =this is error = to contradict the LORD

 

[David in NJ]

@FaithWillDo

What do you see here?


“Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath. - Isaiah 45:22-23

 

[FaithWillDo]

Dear Joe,

What do you see here:

“Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath. - Isaiah 45:22-23

Dear David in NJ,
All mankind (all the ends of the earth) will look to Christ someday and be saved. All mankind will do this because Christ will prepare our hearts and give us the answer of our tongue. Mankind has no ability to do it until Christ acts within us.

The verse below describes mankind in our created state prior to Christ coming to us:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Until Christ acts, no man can understand God or will even seek Him out. Mankind is carnal and will only seek out the god of this world which is Satan. His ways are pleasing to mankind's carnality and for that reason, Satan is accepted by the world (and by the apostate church because they remain carnally minded).

2Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Only a converted child of God will come out from this world to dwell with Christ in heaven.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This verse is a spiritual event and not a literal event. After an Elect believer is converted, they are said to rise and dwell with Christ in heaven because they are no longer a part of this world, nor will they follow the god of this world.

Joe