The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

[face2face]

Are you promoting "soul sleep" or the like?

Remember what Jesus said, God is the God of the living, not the dead.

Much love!

True, God is a God of the Living!...but dead is dead!!!!

 

[face2face]

I recall @David in NJ suggested Luke 16:19 isn't a parable because its not clearly stated as such, I believe approx. 11 of the 26 are defined as such, so this also cannot be evidence to suggest its not a parable otherwise we would need to force a literal interpretation on the remaining 15 parables something even David would find untenable.

 

[face2face]

@everyone else reading.... so far the challenge of explaining the symbols Jesus expressed in Luke 16:24 have not been interprated in the context of the Pharisees & Saducees.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

It's the honour of Kings to work out a matter and Parables are given that it's hidden meaning might be revealed to his disciples! Mark 4:11,12; Mark 4:34

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

@David in NJ we have seen how you have disregarded the start of Luke 16:1 (as being a parable) and Luke 16:19 (as being a parable) out of interest would you also apply Luke 12:16 as being literal as well?

i suggest you go back and read my posts - unless you are intentionally lying for the purpose of slander.

SEE my Post #39 for the Truth

 

[David in NJ]

Post #39 says:

"Simple Truth = the LORD Jesus Christ transitions from a parable 16:1-13 to DIRECT REALITY in 16:14-18 and HE finalizes HIS parable of 16:1-13 with the ACTUAL REALITY in 16:16-31"

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
Here is the scripture which leads into Christ's statement of John 3:16:

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Nicodemus came to Christ by night. When Christ responded to him, it was in private and not to the multitudes. Why do you not believe this scripture?

As for Luke 16:14-18, it is a part of the 5 parable teachings of Christ which began at the start of chapter 15:

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying...

This 5 parable section of scripture which continues into chapter 16 was made to the multitudes which consisted of publicans, sinners, Pharisees and scribes. It was not done in private as was Christ's teachings to Nicodemus in John chapter 3.

This is not hard to understand but evidently it is very difficult for you to accept because you are so locked into the false teachings of the apostate church. Where is your "love for the truth"?

Joe

Joe,
YES, the parables begin in chapter 15 and continue with a parable in 16:1-13

Do you believe that when a person dies there is no consciousness of the soul/spirit of man?

 

[face2face]

i suggest you go back and read my posts - unless you are intentionally lying for the purpose of slander.

SEE my Post #39 for the Truth

You dont like to answer questions do you David? I assume from the above avoidence you don't beleive Luke 12 is literal and that you have chosen to make Luke 16:19 literal to suit your doctrinal bias.

What's in it for you to force not only a literal reading but also the notions you need to apply to it to make it your REALITY?

Other than #39 do you have real evidence?

 

[face2face]

Joe,
YES, the parables begin in chapter 15 and continue with a parable in 16:1-13

Do you believe that when a person dies there is no consciousness of the soul/spirit of man?

You made a typo there David - Luke 16:19 starts exactly the same way as Luke 16:1 - no difference! Further to this, it includes highly symbolic language relating to the Pharisees and Saducees beliefs at that time. It's what makes the Parable so difficult to decpher.
F2F

 

[David in NJ]

You made a typo there David - Luke 16:19 starts exactly the same way as Luke 16:1 - no difference! Further to this, it includes highly symbolic language relating to the Pharisees and Saducees beliefs at that time. It's what makes the Parable so difficult to decpher.
F2F

There is no parable to decipher in Luke 16:19-31

This is the crux of the matter = you believe in the false doctrine of 'soul sleep' and Jesus rebukes that error in Luke 16:19-31.

 

[face2face]

@marks @David in NJ


I'll leave you with that list and provide further evidence Luke 16:19 is a parable.

Clearly you both believe the story to be literal - out of interest what happened to the people who lived and died before Abraham? Do you believe Abraham’s bosom existed prior to Abraham's life & death?

Do you have anywhere in the Bible that speaks to Abraham’s bosom or is this the only account?

I'm also curious, do you both believe your destination is where Abraham is (Heaven is not referenced!) and for you both do you mind hearing the screams of those across the way being tortured? Is this your vision of the Kingdom and Eternal Life?

I'm interested also in this impassable gulf which is so great no one can pass across it, but people can converse easily?

Lets for the moment imagine Marks & David are in the position of the Rich Man who is being burned with fire - would you both only request a drop of water? Why not a jar? Or a large vessel?

Continue to imagine you are both the Rich Man in this story - would you really believe Lazarus would leave his bosom to visit you both? Really?

I think in time you will see the ludicrous nature of this parable being literal and hopefully "wise" up and start looking for an alternative interpretation….one that actually makes sense!

F2F

 

[face2face]

There is no parable to decipher in Luke 16:19-31

This is the crux of the matter = you believe in the false doctrine of 'soul sleep' and Jesus rebukes that error in Luke 16:19-31.

We are still getting in to what you beleive regarding this parable and its freightening how far a Christian can be deluded; especially by a teaching of the Lords which is not even intended for you! But hey, anything goes right! If you want to make it literal all the best with that. I'll press on, bringing to light the ridiculous nature of that belief, AND provide some geniune insights to light along the way.

 

[David in NJ]

@marks @David in NJ


I'll leave you with that list and provide further evidence Luke 16:19 is a parable.

Clearly you both believe the story to be literal - out of interest what happened to the people who lived and died before Abraham? Do you believe Abraham’s bosom existed prior to Abraham's life & death?

Do you have anywhere in the Bible that speaks to Abraham’s bosom or is this the only account?

I'm also curious, do you both believe your destination is where Abraham is (Heaven is not referenced!) and for you both do you mind hearing the screams of those across the way being tortured? Is this your vision of the Kingdom and Eternal Life?

I'm interested also in this impassable gulf which is so great no one can pass across it but people can converse easily?

Let for the moment imagine Marks & David are in the position of the Rich Man who is being burned with fire - would you both only request a drop of water? Why not a jar? Or a large vessel?

Continue to imagine you are both the Rich Man in this story - would you really believe Lazarus would leave his bosom to visit you both? Really?

I think in time you will see the ludicrous nature of this parable being literal and hopefully "wise" up and start looking for an alternative interpretation….one that actually makes sense!

F2F

Typical 'non-sense' from human intellect that argues against the Holy Scriptures in unbelief.

Set your heart and mind free in Christ and His Words.

 

[face2face]

I will continue to get you thinking about this Parable in a way that confronts those absurdities of it being literal, but also shines a light on the true meaning of those symbols within the parable.

Take verse 29

“Abraham answered, 'They have Moses and the Prophets to tell them the score. Let them listen to them. '

How did Abraham know the contents of the writings of Moses and the Prophets? Do you believe Abraham is omniscient, or maybe he has a copy of the Scriptures where he can leisurely read?

 

[face2face]

Typical 'non-sense' from human intellect that argues against the Holy Scriptures in unbelief.

Set your heart and mind free in Christ and His Words.

You have no answers David - it's expected. You know what happens if you try right?

 

[David in NJ]

You have no answers David - it's expected. You know what happens if you try right?

i have the very words of Christ
AND
the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Truth

 

[David in NJ]

I will continue to get you thinking about this Parable in a way that confronts those absurdities of it being literal, but also shines a light on the true meaning of those symbols within the parable.

Take verse 29

“Abraham answered, 'They have Moses and the Prophets to tell them the score. Let them listen to them. '

How did Abraham know the contents of the writings of Moses and the Prophets? Do you believe Abraham is omniscient, or maybe he has a copy of the Scriptures where he can leisurely read?

Thank you for posting this !!!

verse 29, once again, reproves your error and demonstrates the REALITY of which the LORD detailed for us in Luke 16:19-31

 

[face2face]

@everyone

So we all know Genesis is slient on the teaching of an immortal soul but I do have a question on Luke 16 which is puzzling.

If you believe an ethereal spirit wafts off to God when you die, why in this parable do they have bodies — fingers, toes, eyes, etc???? based upon Luke 16 and the parable, what use is there for a resurrected body?

 

[face2face]

i have the very words of Christ
AND
the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Truth

Good for you David!

 

[face2face]

Thank you for posting this !!!

verse 29, once again, reproves your error and demonstrates the REALITY of which the LORD detailed for us in Luke 16:19-31

You're welcome, David. Now, would you like to make an informative comment, or just continue to play your part in this? I'm happy to continue to use your posts to demonstrate you haven’t thought this through and its rather telling.

 

[MatthewG]

The Parable is simply a look inside of the state of the Realm of the dead, which paradise, and the prison part of sheol - was separated from God - for a time until Jesus overcame death.