THE NEW JERUSALEM

[Lambano]

OK.
You're talking about the Kingdom of God here on earth.
Agreed.
Which is also different than The Body of Christ (although the Kingdom is made up of The Body)

Maybe, maybe not.

The theologians talk about "realized eschatology", where there is a sense that the Kingdom of God HAS come upon the earth NOW the form of those who acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, the anointed King of God. Now - but not yet. Not yet fully realized. The New Jerusalem is the full realization.

 

[GodsGrace]

Maybe, maybe not.

The theologians talk about "realized eschatology", where there is a sense that the Kingdom of God HAS come upon the earth NOW the form of those who acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, the annointed King of God. Now - but not yet. Not yet fully realized.

I think we agree...let's see:

Jesus came to set up the Kingdom of God here on earth.
He spoke more about that than anything else - even salvation which got about a few remarks, but the NT is full of parables about the Kingdom.

Your image reflects this: The Kingdom is within us.

Jesus taught about the Kingdom here on earth in Matthew 5 to 7 ... the teachings on the Beatitudes.

The Kingdom is, of course, a spiritual Kingdom....
but it's also physical in the sense that we are to PROMOTE this Kingdom by improving life on earth in any way we can.
This would be the "good deeds" that Jesus and the NT speak of and which many on these forums state are unnecessary.
(faith only).

These good deeds would actually cause a better life, right here, right now.
Do unto others,
Turn the cheek,
and all such statements.
(turn the cheek really means something different, but it could also be used for this topic).

Jesus said His Kingdom was NOT of this world...He meant a physical Kingdom.
But certainly, He does have a Spiritual Kingdom here and we are the "subjects" of that Kingdom.

 

[Keraz]

The theologians talk about "realized eschatology", where there is a sense that the Kingdom of God HAS come upon the earth NOW the form of those who acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, the annointed King of God. Now - but not yet. Not yet fully realized.

How could they know? Matthew 11:25
It is 'in your face', as they say: that we are not yet living in the Kingdom of God.

It will be realized when Jesus Returns, but much must take place before that glorious Day and people are mostly clueless about the end times events.

 

[GodsGrace]

How could they know? Matthew 11:25
It is 'in your face', as they say: that we are not yet living in the Kingdom of God.

It will be realized when Jesus Returns, but much must take place before that glorious Day and people are mostly clueless about the end times events.

I agree Keraz,
just want to say that in the NT the phrase Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven is used interchangeably, unfortunately, causing some confusion.

But the Kingdom of Heaven is more in keeping with what you state above....
that we are NOT YET in the Kingdom of Heaven, which will be at the end of the world.

We definitely are not yet in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Some don't even believe we can have the "Kingdom of God" here on earth since there is still so much
that we Christians just can't get right....like our behavior being different from everyone else's.
They'll say we're just as bad as non-believers.
I don't think so, but it's a matter of opinion I guess.

 

[Marty fox]

OK.
You're talking about the Kingdom of God here on earth.
Agreed.
Which is also different than The Body of Christ (although the Kingdom is made up of The Body)

I'm talking about the New Jerusalem found in Revelation.
Two different topics.

I’m talking about the kingdom of God within us the church in heaven and on earth.

The church is the bride of Christ in heaven and on earth and I provided two scriptures showing the the new Jerusalem is the bride of Christ. Thus the verses shows that we the church will one day be fully united on the new earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

I’m talking about the kingdom of God within us the church in heaven and on earth.

How would you describe the Kingdom of God within us?

The church is the bride of Christ in heaven and on earth and I provided two scriptures showing the the new Jerusalem is the bride of Christ. Thus the verses shows that we the church will one day be fully united on the new earth.

I agree that we will one day be all united on the new earth.

Do you agree that the new earth is the New Jerusalem?

 

[Marty fox]

How would you describe the Kingdom of God within us?

I agree that we will one day be all united on the new earth.

Do you agree that the new earth is the New Jerusalem?

The kingdom of God is within us through the Holy Sprit

No the new Jerusalem is the church

 

[GodsGrace]

The kingdom of God is within us through the Holy Sprit

No the new Jerusalem is the church

OK
So we disagree.

I'm going by

Revelation 21:1-2
1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.

and verse 5:
5And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.”

 

[grafted branch]

What
Where
When

Thanks!

I think one of the major differences people have on New Jerusalem is whether it represents the Church or not. I’m in the camp that it doesn’t represent the Church. In Revelation 22:9 John is shown the bride, Lambs wife, which is New Jerusalem. This equates the bride as New Jerusalem, so your questions apply equally to both the bride and New Jerusalem.

We have verses such as Ephesians 5:22-32 which does give the impression that the Church is the bride but if we draw an absolute conclusion from that then it creates issues.

For example, in verse 26 it is Christ that sanctifies and cleanses yet in Revelation 19:7 it is the bride that makes herself ready. In verse 27 Christ presents the wife/bride to Himself yet in 2 Corinthians 11:2 Paul says he has espoused that he may present them as a chaste virgin to Christ. In verse 31 it indicates the marriage is already consummated which would put Revelation 19 taking place before Ephesians was written.

Colossians 2:10 says we are complete in Him, if the marriage was still future and it involved the Church then this statement wouldn’t be true until after the marriage. If we look at verses such as Galatians 4:19 where Paul says he travailed in birth, meaning he was their mother and 1 Corinthians 4:15 where Paul places himself as their father, we can see that Paul uses these types of relationships as examples which were not meant to be taken literally.

Now look at Luke 20 where Jesus Himself talks about our condition after death.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Clearly we are not going to be married or given in marriage after we die.

In Isaiah 62:4 the last phrase in that verse is “and thy land shall be married.” Some translations put it this way “and your land will be His bride.”. Now look at Hebrews 11:16 But now they (those who died in faith) desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

I personally think the promised land is the new heaven new earth, New Jerusalem, New Testament or covenant, bride of Christ. The Church enters into that covenant but they are not the covenant itself.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think one of the major differences people have on New Jerusalem is whether it represents the Church or not. I’m in the camp that it doesn’t represent the Church. In Revelation 22:9 John is shown the bride, Lambs wife, which is New Jerusalem. This equates the bride as New Jerusalem, so your questions apply equally to both the bride and New Jerusalem.

We have verses such as Ephesians 5:22-32 which does give the impression that the Church is the bride but if we draw an absolute conclusion from that then it creates issues.

For example, in verse 26 it is Christ that sanctifies and cleanses yet in Revelation 19:7 it is the bride that makes herself ready. In verse 27 Christ presents the wife/bride to Himself yet in 2 Corinthians 11:2 Paul says he has espoused that he may present them as a chaste virgin to Christ. In verse 31 it indicates the marriage is already consummated which would put Revelation 19 taking place before Ephesians was written.

Colossians 2:10 says we are complete in Him, if the marriage was still future and it involved the Church then this statement wouldn’t be true until after the marriage. If we look at verses such as Galatians 4:19 where Paul says he travailed in birth, meaning he was their mother and 1 Corinthians 4:15 where Paul places himself as their father, we can see that Paul uses these types of relationships as examples which were not meant to be taken literally.

Now look at Luke 20 where Jesus Himself talks about our condition after death.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Clearly we are not going to be married or given in marriage after we die.

In Isaiah 62:4 the last phrase in that verse is “and thy land shall be married.” Some translations put it this way “and your land will be His bride.”. Now look at Hebrews 11:16 But now they (those who died in faith) desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

I personally think the promised land is the new heaven new earth, New Jerusalem, New Testament or covenant, bride of Christ. The Church enters into that covenant but they are not the covenant itself.

Grafted branch,
Not being well-versed in end times theology, the above is a lot to take in.
I will do this, but tomorrow morning - kind of late here right now.
Will reply then.
Thanks!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

New jerusalem in scripture

Revelation 3:12

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Revelation 21:2
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:22

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.​

This shows it will be a city. It will not come from the earth. but will be separate. It will come at the end, and there will be no temple as God the father and the son are its temple.

It is different from the earth as we see. the earth will be destroyed and a new heavens and new earth will be created in its place.

Revelation 21
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

Isaiah talks about the new creation

Isaiah 65:17

The Glorious New Creation​

“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

Peter says it is what we look forward to

2 Peter 3:13

Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

we see again in revelation who the inhabitants will be, the one who overcomes

Revelation 3:12

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.


who is he who overcomes?

1 John 5:4-5

For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

so we see that whoever is born of God. based on faith in Jesus, will inhabit this new jerusalem, and this new heavens and earth. which will be filled with the righteousness of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

New jerusalem in scripture

Revelation 3:12

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Revelation 21:2
Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:22

But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.​

This shows it will be a city. It will not come from the earth. but will be separate. It will come at the end, and there will be no temple as God the father and the son are its temple.

It is different from the earth as we see. the earth will be destroyed and a new heavens and new earth will be created in its place.

Revelation 21
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

Isaiah talks about the new creation

Isaiah 65:17

The Glorious New Creation​

“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

Peter says it is what we look forward to

2 Peter 3:13

Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

we see again in revelation who the inhabitants will be, the one who overcomes

Revelation 3:12

He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.


who is he who overcomes?

1 John 5:4-5

For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

so we see that whoever is born of God. based on faith in Jesus, will inhabit this new jerusalem, and this new heavens and earth. which will be filled with the righteousness of God.

Great Post EG!
So much information.
Haven't studied this much, but it's how I understand it to be.
A new place - the New Jerusalem,
and it'll be inhabited by those that followed Jesus....

I see it as a real place and not just a spiritual place, although it will, of course, be spiritual too.

I copied and pasted the info for future use.
Thanks!

 

[Jack]

No one has an identity outside of Christ.

That includes Israel.

Describe for us Israel's identity outside of Christ.

You ain't Israel! Plain enough?

 

[covenantee]

You ain't Israel! Plain enough?

Thanks for the confirmation.

Israel has no identity outside of Christ.

Praise God that I ain't Israel.

I have identity in Christ.

 

[Jack]

I ain't Israel.

BINGO!

 

[covenantee]

BINGO!

I couldn't agree more.

I ain't what has no identity.

 

[Jack]

I couldn't agree more.

I ain't what has no identity.

Then why do you ATTACK Israel, the Land of the Bible?

 

[covenantee]

Then why do you ATTACK Israel, the Land of the Bible?

Proof?

 

[Jack]

Proof?

So you SUPPORT Israel, the Land of the Bible?

 

[covenantee]

So you SUPPORT Israel, the Land of the Bible?

Proof?