Zechariah 14 and the Jerusalem meant in verse 2 vs the one meant in verse 11.

[Truth7t7]

Seriously, what do hills have to do with years? They are not the same concept. A thousand hills literally means every hill, even if there are billions of hills. One can't argue in the same manner regarding years though, that a thousand years mean every single year since the beginning of time through the end of time. What if God had said 'on a hundred hills'? What then? How would that be any different than saying 'on a thousand hills'? It's the same concept either way.

The problem is not this, that in some cases, depending on context, a thousand isn't literally meaning exactly 1000. What the problem is, is this. Amils seem to be insisting that there is nowhere in all of the Bible that a thousand can mean exactly 1000. Imagine that, a thousand can never mean exactly 1000, it can only mean an amount greater than 1000.

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

A lot of what you submitted I'm basically in agreement with you about. And it amazes me, the fact you are an Amil, that you possess this level of discernment involving this chapter. Most Amils make nonsense out of the texts involved, not sense out of them like you are attempting to do.

But even so, we're still not on the same page in regards to the timing of the millennium.

This makes no sense. If you truly are in agreement with what he said, then you would not disagree with him about the timing of the millennium because what he said indicates that the millennium is not possible to occur after Jesus returns.

If you think that Amils make nonsense out of the texts then how about you put your money where your mouth is for once and tell us exactly how you think Zechariah 14 should be interpreted instead of just saying that this passage belongs in this age and that passage belongs in that age without being specific about how exactly any of it should be interpreted.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Seriously, what do hills have to do with years? They are not the same concept. A thousand hills literally means every hill, even if there are billions of hills. One can't argue in the same manner regarding years though, that a thousand years mean every single year since the beginning of time through the end of time.

LOL. The point is that the word "thousand" can be used figuratively because we can see that it is used figuratively sometimes in scripture. No one is saying that it can only be used figuratively in the exact same way that it is in Psalm 50:10.

The problem is not this, that in some cases, depending on context, a thousand isn't literally meaning exactly 1000. What the problem is, is this. Amils seem to be insisting that there is nowhere in all of the Bible that a thousand can mean exactly 1000.

When did any Amil ever say this?

 

[ewq1938]

Seriously, what do hills have to do with years? They are not the same concept. A thousand hills literally means every hill, even if there are billions of hills.

Well, the Romans once ruled a thousand hills but they did not rule every hill.

 

[Davidpt]

Well, the Romans once ruled a thousand hills but they did not rule every hill.

Can't say I'm familiar with that. Do you think there is a connection here then?

 

[Davidpt]

When did any Amil ever say this?

One way to maybe clear this up, provide a verse or verses in either the OT and or in the NT which you feel supports taking a thousand in the literal sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

One way to maybe clear this up, provide a verse or verses in either the OT and or in the NT which you feel supports taking a thousand in the literal sense.

What would that clear up exactly?

Can you not answer my question? You said this:

The problem is not this, that in some cases, depending on context, a thousand isn't literally meaning exactly 1000. What the problem is, is this. Amils seem to be insisting that there is nowhere in all of the Bible that a thousand can mean exactly 1000.

I asked you when any Amil ever said this. So, what is your answer to that question? Never? If so, then why did you say what you did?

Whether I can find a place where it means exactly a thousand or not is irrelevant. Can't you be satisfied with me saying that it's possible for it to mean that regardless of whether or not it's used that way anywhere in scripture?

 

[ewq1938]

Can't say I'm familiar with that. Do you think there is a connection here then?

Just that the phrase, "a thousand hills" does not mean every single hill. As you pointed out, a thousand hills in a figure of speech in Hebrew is not the same as a thousand years in a different language.

 

[ewq1938]

One way to maybe clear this up, provide a verse or verses in either the OT and or in the NT which you feel supports taking a thousand in the literal sense.

There are more verses in the bible that use "thousand" in a literal sense than non-literal (96 verses):



Genesis 20:16

To Sarah he said, “Behold, I have given your brother a thousand pieces of silver; behold, it is your vindication before all who are with you, and before all men you are cleared.”




Exodus 12:37

Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from children.



Exodus 18:21

Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.



Exodus 18:25

Moses chose able men out of all Israel and made them heads over the people, leaders of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties and of tens.




Exodus 32:28

So the sons of Levi did as Moses instructed, and about three thousand men of the people fell that day.




Leviticus 26:8

five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall before you by the sword.




Numbers 31:4

A thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of Israel you shall send to the war.”



Numbers 31:5

So there were furnished from the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.



Numbers 31:6

Moses sent them, a thousand from each tribe, to the war, and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war with them, and the holy vessels and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand.



Numbers 31:14

Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the captains of thousands and the captains of hundreds, who had come from service in the war.



Numbers 31:48

Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the captains of thousands and the captains of hundreds, approached Moses,



Numbers 31:52

All the gold of the offering which they offered up to the Lord, from the captains of thousands and the captains of hundreds, was 16,750 shekels.



Numbers 31:54

So Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from the captains of thousands and of hundreds, and brought it to the tent of meeting as a memorial for the sons of Israel before the Lord.



Numbers 35:4

“The pasture lands of the cities which you shall give to the Levites shall extend from the wall of the city outward a thousand cubits around.



Numbers 35:5

You shall also measure outside the city on the east side two thousand cubits, and on the south side two thousand cubits, and on the west side two thousand cubits, and on the north side two thousand cubits, with the city in the center. This shall become theirs as pasture lands for the cities.



Deuteronomy 1:11

May the Lord, the God of your fathers, increase you a thousand-fold more than you are and bless you, just as He has promised you!



Deuteronomy 1:15

So I took the heads of your tribes, wise and experienced men, and appointed them heads over you, leaders of thousands and of hundreds, of fifties and of tens, and officers for your tribes.




Deuteronomy 32:30

“How could one chase a thousand, And two put ten thousand to flight, Unless their Rock had sold them, And the Lord had given them up?



Deuteronomy 33:2

He said, “The Lord came from Sinai, And dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, And He came from the midst of ten thousand holy ones; At His right hand there was flashing lightning for them.




Joshua 7:3

They returned to Joshua and said to him, “Do not let all the people go up; only about two or three thousand men need go up to Ai; do not make all the people toil up there, for they are few.”



Joshua 7:4

So about three thousand men from the people went up there, but they fled from the men of Ai.




Joshua 23:10

One of your men puts to flight a thousand, for the Lord your God is He who fights for you, just as He promised you.



Judges 1:4

Judah went up, and the Lord gave the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hands, and they defeated ten thousand men at Bezek.



Judges 3:29

They struck down at that time about ten thousand Moabites, all robust and valiant men; and no one escaped.



Judges 4:6

Now she sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali, and said to him, “Behold, the Lord, the God of Israel, has commanded, ‘Go and march to Mount Tabor, and take with you ten thousand men from the sons of Naphtali and from the sons of Zebulun.



Judges 4:10

Barak called Zebulun and Naphtali together to Kedesh, and ten thousand men went up with him; Deborah also went up with him.



Judges 4:14

Deborah said to Barak, “Arise! For this is the day in which the Lord has given Sisera into your hands; behold, the Lord has gone out before you.” So Barak went down from Mount Tabor with ten thousand men following him.



Judges 5:8

New gods were chosen; Then war was in the gates. Not a shield or a spear was seen among forty thousand in Israel.



Judges 9:49

All the people also cut down each one his branch and followed Abimelech, and put them on the inner chamber and set the inner chamber on fire over those inside, so that all the men of the tower of Shechem also died, about a thousand men and women.



Judges 15:15

He found a fresh jawbone of a donkey, so he reached out and took it and killed a thousand men with it.



Judges 15:16

Then Samson said, “With the jawbone of a donkey, Heaps upon heaps, With the jawbone of a donkey I have killed a thousand men.”



Judges 20:34

When ten thousand choice men from all Israel came against Gibeah, the battle became fierce; but Benjamin did not know that disaster was close to them.



1 Samuel 4:2

The Philistines drew up in battle array to meet Israel. When the battle spread, Israel was defeated before the Philistines who killed about four thousand men on the battlefield.



1 Samuel 4:10

So the Philistines fought and Israel was defeated, and every man fled to his tent; and the slaughter was very great, for there fell of Israel thirty thousand foot soldiers.




1 Samuel 17:5

He had a bronze helmet on his head, and he was clothed with scale-armor which weighed five thousand shekels of bronze.



1 Samuel 17:18

Bring also these ten cuts of cheese to the commander of their thousand, and look into the welfare of your brothers, and bring back news of them.





1 Samuel 18:13

Therefore Saul removed him from his presence and appointed him as his commander of a thousand; and he went out and came in before the people.






1 Samuel 24:2

Then Saul took three thousand chosen men from all Israel and went to seek David and his men in front of the Rocks of the Wild Goats.



1 Samuel 25:2

[ Nabal and Abigail ] Now there was a man in Maon whose business was in Carmel; and the man was very rich, and he had three thousand sheep and a thousand goats. And it came about while he was shearing his sheep in Carmel



1 Samuel 26:2

So Saul arose and went down to the wilderness of Ziph, having with him three thousand chosen men of Israel, to search for David in the wilderness of Ziph.





2 Samuel 6:1

[ Peril in Moving the Ark ] Now David again gathered all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand.





2 Samuel 18:3

But the people said, “You should not go out; for if we indeed flee, they will not care about us; even if half of us die, they will not care about us. But you are worth ten thousand of us; therefore now it is better that you be ready to help us from the city.”





2 Samuel 18:12

The man said to Joab, “Even if I should receive a thousand pieces of silver in my hand, I would not put out my hand against the king’s son; for in our hearing the king charged you and Abishai and Ittai, saying, ‘Protect for me the young man Absalom!’



2 Samuel 19:17

There were a thousand men of Benjamin with him, with Ziba the servant of the house of Saul, and his fifteen sons and his twenty servants with him; and they rushed to the Jordan before the king.



2 Samuel 24:9

And Joab gave the number of the registration of the people to the king; and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.

 

[ewq1938]

2 Samuel 24:15

So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning until the appointed time, and seventy thousand men of the people from Dan to Beersheba died.



1 Kings 3:4

The king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there, for that was the great high place; Solomon offered a thousand burnt offerings on that altar.



1 Kings 7:26

It was a handbreadth thick, and its brim was made like the brim of a cup, as a lily blossom; it could hold two thousand baths.



2 Kings 5:5

Then the king of Aram said, “Go now, and I will send a letter to the king of Israel.” He departed and took with him ten talents of silver and six thousand shekels of gold and ten changes of clothes.



2 Kings 15:19

Pul, king of Assyria, came against the land, and Menahem gave Pul a thousand talents of silver so that his hand might be with him to strengthen the kingdom under his rule.



2 Kings 18:23

Now therefore, come, make a bargain with my master the king of Assyria, and I will give you two thousand horses, if you are able on your part to set riders on them.



2 Kings 24:14

Then he led away into exile all Jerusalem and all the captains and all the mighty men of valor, ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and the smiths. None remained except the poorest people of the land.



2 Kings 24:16

All the men of valor, seven thousand, and the craftsmen and the smiths, one thousand, all strong and fit for war, and these the king of Babylon brought into exile to Babylon.




2 Chronicles 1:6

Solomon went up there before the Lord to the bronze altar which was at the tent of meeting, and offered a thousand burnt offerings on it.



2 Chronicles 17:14

This was their muster according to their fathers’ households: of Judah, commanders of thousands, Adnah was the commander, and with him three hundred thousand valiant warriors;



2 Chronicles 25:5

[ Amaziah Defeats Edomites ] Moreover, Amaziah assembled Judah and appointed them according to their fathers’ households under commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds throughout Judah and Benjamin; and he took a census of those from twenty years old and upward and found them to be three hundred thousand choice men, able to go to war and handle spear and shield.



2 Chronicles 27:5

He fought also with the king of the Ammonites and prevailed over them so that the Ammonites gave him during that year one hundred talents of silver, ten thousand kors of wheat and ten thousand of barley. The Ammonites also paid him this amount in the second and in the third year.



Nehemiah 3:13

Hanun and the inhabitants of Zanoah repaired the Valley Gate. They built it and hung its doors with its bolts and its bars, and a thousand cubits of the wall to the Refuse Gate.



Esther 3:9

If it is pleasing to the king, let it be decreed that they be destroyed, and I will pay ten thousand talents of silver into the hands of those who carry on the king’s business, to put into the king’s treasuries.”


Ecclesiastes 6:6

Even if the other man lives a thousand years twice and does not enjoy good things—do not all go to one place?”




Song of Solomon 8:11

“Solomon had a vineyard at Baal-hamon; He entrusted the vineyard to caretakers. Each one was to bring a thousand shekels of silver for its fruit.



Song of Solomon 8:12

“My very own vineyard is at my disposal; The thousand shekels are for you, Solomon, And two hundred are for those who take care of its fruit.”




Isaiah 36:8

Now therefore, come make a bargain with my master the king of Assyria, and I will give you two thousand horses, if you are able on your part to set riders on them.



Ezekiel 47:3

When the man went out toward the east with a line in his hand, he measured a thousand cubits, and he led me through the water, water reaching the ankles.



Ezekiel 47:4

Again he measured a thousand and led me through the water, water reaching the knees. Again he measured a thousand and led me through the water, water reaching the loins.



Ezekiel 47:5

Again he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not ford, for the water had risen, enough water to swim in, a river that could not be forded.



Daniel 5:1

Belshazzar the king held a great feast for a thousand of his nobles, and he was drinking wine in the presence of the thousand.




Matthew 14:21

There were about five thousand men who ate, besides women and children.



Matthew 15:38

And those who ate were four thousand men, besides women and children.



Matthew 16:9

Do you not yet understand or remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets full you picked up?



Matthew 16:10

Or the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many large baskets full you picked up?



Matthew 18:24

When he had begun to settle them, one who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him.



Mark 5:13

Jesus gave them permission. And coming out, the unclean spirits entered the swine; and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea, about two thousand of them; and they were drowned in the sea.



Mark 6:44

There were five thousand men who ate the loaves.


Mark 8:9

About four thousand were there; and He sent them away.



Mark 8:19

when I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces you picked up?” They *said to Him, “Twelve.”



Mark 8:20

“When I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of broken pieces did you pick up?” And they *said to Him, “Seven.”



Luke 9:14

(For there were about five thousand men.) And He said to His disciples, “Have them sit down to eat in groups of about fifty each.”



John 6:10

Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” Now there was much grass in the place. So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.



Acts 2:41

So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.



Acts 4:4

But many of those who had heard the message believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.



Acts 19:19

And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone; and they counted up the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.



Acts 21:38

Then you are not the Egyptian who some time ago stirred up a revolt and led the four thousand men of the Assassins out into the wilderness?”



Romans 11:4

But what is the divine response to him? “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”



1 Corinthians 10:8

Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.



1 Corinthians 14:19

however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.



2 Peter 3:8

But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.




Revelation 7:4

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:



Revelation 7:5

from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand,



Revelation 7:6

from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand,



Revelation 7:7

from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand,



Revelation 7:8

from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.



Revelation 11:13

And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.



Revelation 12:6

Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.




Revelation 14:1

Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.



Revelation 14:3

And they *sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth.



Revelation 20:2

And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;



Revelation 20:3

and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.



Revelation 20:4

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.



Revelation 20:5

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.



Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.



Revelation 20:7

When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Copy @Davidpt

Did the Psalmist and Peter both pick a thousand by coincidence?

Did Peter mean a thousand? Or thousands? (A cycle of time, or any number of cycles of time? One unit of time, or any number of units of time)?

Solomon wrote,

"Though the stillborn child came into the world for no reason and departed into darkness, though its name is shrouded in darkness, though it never saw the light of day nor knew anything, yet it has more rest than a man if he should live a thousand years twice, yet does not enjoy his prosperity. For both of them die!" (Ecclesiastes 6:4-6).

A thousand years twice is two thousand years - a specific unit of time mentioned 2x (one unit of a thousand years).

"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." Psalm 90:4

Again, a specific unit of time mentioned.

"Now, dear friends, do not let this one thing escape your notice, that a single day is as a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years are as a single day." (2 Peter 3:8).

Again, a specific unit of time mentioned.

What you don't even realize is that you are saying that the Psalmist and Peter are referring to any number of years EXCEPT a thousand years: The only cycle of time they are NOT referring to is a thousand years because in your opinion it is impossible that they would be referring to a thousand years, rather than to any amount of years.

Yet you have no basis for saying so because there is no basis in the text or the language for you to assert it.

Why would you of necessity have to EXCLUDE only one unit of time - a thousand years - out of any number of units of time if your premise isn't faulty?

 

[Davy]

What you don't even realize is that you are saying that the Psalmist and Peter are referring to any number of years EXCEPT a thousand years: The only cycle of time they are NOT referring to is a thousand years because in your opinion it is impossible that they would be referring to a thousand years, rather than to any amount of years.

Yet you have no basis for saying so because there is no basis in the text or the language for you to assert it.

Why would you of necessity have to EXCLUDE only one unit of time - a thousand years - out of any number of units of time if your premise isn't faulty?

He rejects the "thousand years" of Rev.20 because like I said, he is NOT staying with God's written Word, but instead believes men's false doctrines over God's written Word. And just because man's theory of Amillennialism, which completely rejects that "thousand years" of Rev.20 as being literal, he has decided to heed those pagan Gnostics that planted that falseness among the early Christian Church. Many of the 2nd century and forward Church fathers also succumbed to that false Amill theory, but that was because they misinterpreted the time, thinking that Christ's literal Kingdom had then actually come (even though Jesus had not yet returned, which pointed to another facet of deception.)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just that the phrase, "a thousand hills" does not mean every single hill. As you pointed out, a thousand hills in a figure of speech in Hebrew is not the same as a thousand years in a different language.

The word for thousand in Greek can be used figuratively just as it can in Hebrew. To try to act as if the Greek word somehow can't be used figuratively is as dishonest as someone can possibly be.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There are more verses in the bible that use "thousand" in a literal sense than non-literal (96 verses):

Which proves absolutely nothing as it relates to the thousand years referenced in the most highly symbolic book in the entire Bible.

 

[Truth7t7]

Copy @Davidpt

Did the Psalmist and Peter both pick a thousand by coincidence?

Did Peter mean a thousand? Or thousands? (A cycle of time, or any number of cycles of time? One unit of time, or any number of units of time)?

Solomon wrote,

"Though the stillborn child came into the world for no reason and departed into darkness, though its name is shrouded in darkness, though it never saw the light of day nor knew anything, yet it has more rest than a man if he should live a thousand years twice, yet does not enjoy his prosperity. For both of them die!" (Ecclesiastes 6:4-6).

A thousand years twice is two thousand years - a specific unit of time mentioned 2x (one unit of a thousand years).

"For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night." Psalm 90:4

Again, a specific unit of time mentioned.

"Now, dear friends, do not let this one thing escape your notice, that a single day is as a thousand years with the Lord and a thousand years are as a single day." (2 Peter 3:8).

Again, a specific unit of time mentioned.

What you don't even realize is that you are saying that the Psalmist and Peter are referring to any number of years EXCEPT a thousand years: The only cycle of time they are NOT referring to is a thousand years because in your opinion it is impossible that they would be referring to a thousand years, rather than to any amount of years.

Yet you have no basis for saying so because there is no basis in the text or the language for you to assert it.

Why would you of necessity have to EXCLUDE only one unit of time - a thousand years - out of any number of units of time if your premise isn't faulty?

When Jesus returns its (The End) read it 1,000 literal times it's not going to change

Christ's At His Coming (Then Cometh The End)

Many just don't want to let go of their little pet 1,000 year kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When Jesus returns its (The End) read it 1,000 literal times it's not going to change

Christ's At His Coming (Then Cometh The End)

Many just don't want to let go of their little pet 1,000 year kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Agree. It's interesting how Premills often accuse Amills of spiritualizing everything when the reality is that our doctrine is primarily based on literal, straightforward scriptures such as these that you quoted here which do not allow for an earthly millennial kingdom following Christ's return. These scriptures clearly show all of the dead being resurrected on the last day and all unbelievers being killed on that day. What mortals does that leave to populate an earthly millennial kingdom? None.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 makes it clear that the end will come when Jesus comes and He will deliver the kingdom to the Father at that time. That lines up perfectly with what Jesus said here:

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

At the end of the age when Jesus returns, He will deliver the kingdom to the Father and "then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father".

 

[Truth7t7]

Agree. It's interesting how Premills often accuse Amills of spiritualizing everything when the reality is that our doctrine is primarily based on literal, straightforward scriptures such as these that you quoted here which do not allow for an earthly millennial kingdom following Christ's return. These scriptures clearly show all of the dead being resurrected on the last day and all unbelievers being killed on that day. What mortals does that leave to populate an earthly millennial kingdom? None.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 makes it clear that the end will come when Jesus comes and He will deliver the kingdom to the Father at that time. That lines up perfectly with what Jesus said here:

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

At the end of the age when Jesus returns, He will deliver the kingdom to the Father and "then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father".

I Agree 100%, You will closely note that "Davy" nor "Zao" have responded to the post, because there's no argument against (The End) taking place at the future second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement (Then Cometh The End) as Eternity begins in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

Sad part is they will continue in their false belief and teaching of a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Agree 100%, You will closely note that "Davy" nor "Zao" have responded to the post, because there's no argument against (The End) taking place at the future second coming of Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement (Then Cometh The End) as Eternity begins in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

Right. They usually have a lot to say, but now they are silent about this. They know they have nothing to refute what either of us said since 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 and Matthew 13:40-43 make it very clear that Jesus returns at the end of the age and that is when He delivers the kingdom to the Father at which point "shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father" in the eternal new heavens and new earth.

Sad part is they will continue in their false belief and teaching of a 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Yes, because they are very stubborn and unteachable.

 

[Dave Watchman]

They are 2 different Jerusalems for sure. Except neither one of them is meaning the literal city in the first century.

One Jerusalem is intended in the verses.

My understanding is that it's the same Jerusalem. But that Zechariah's Jerusalem was part of a specific Day of the Lord event which would have, could have, taken place if the first century Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. I quoted Zechariah 12 when talking about Daniel 9. Zechariah is a Day of the Lord Prophecy, and a Judaic Prophecy at the same time. Note the various mention of on "that day". And notice the conditional feature: "‘Return to Me, declares the LORD of Hosts, and I will return to you, says the LORD of Hosts.’

Spoiler: Five Types of Bible Prophecy

Five Types of Bible Prophecy

1) Local Prophecy

Prophecies applicable to a specific place and time. These would include Noah's flood, or Jonah's visit to the people of Nineveh. Maybe that King who saw his shadow moving backwards.

2) Messianic Prophecy

These had to do with Jesus' first Visitation. Like Isaiah 52

He Was Pierced for Our Transgressions
Behold, my servant shall act wisely;b
he shall be high and lifted up,
and shall be exalted.

As many were astonished at you—
his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,
and his form beyond that of the children of mankind—

So shall he sprinkle many nations.
Kings shall shut their mouths because of him,
for that which has not been told them they see,
and that which they have not heard they understand.

3) Day of the Lord Prophecy

Very peculiar in their structure. Like Isaiah 13. John MacArthur calls them near/far prophecies. In a Day of the Lord Prophecy the Prophet can begin in an ancient Day of the Lord event to do with the Babylonians, and then can seem to peer down through the millennia to the final and ultimate Day of the Lord that will include all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

4) Judaic Prophecy

These are conditional prophecies that pertained to Ancient Israel. If you obey the Lord your God. If you do this, then He will do that. If they put away the bodies of their dead kings, THEN show them the plan of the Temple.

If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

5) Apocalyptic Prophecy

Apocalyptic Prophesy has unique characteristics. They are separated by chronological order. Each of these have a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time. When the chronological order is broken, and the subject matter changes, a new prophecy begins. There are 17 Apocalyptic prophecies, and 18 prophetic time periods, in the Books of Daniel and Revelation. What makes these unique from the OT Judaic end time prophecies are the prophetic time periods connected with the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation.

There are certainly parallels in Zechariah, to the Day of the Lord event which will occur at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20, (Gog Magog), but it can't happen exactly that way anymore.

Everything in Zechariah, and the Judaic Prophecies, hinged on what the Israelite's did during the first half of the 70th week of Daniel 9.

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. - Jesus​

What if the Old Time Jews were willing? What if they did let their Messiah, our Messiah, gather them like a hen gathers it's chicks? Something different could have taken place with the OT conditional Judaic Prophecies. If they would have just let Jesus gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks, Ezekiel's temple would have been built already. But they missed the time of their Visitation. Jesus had to stick with the Script, so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

To Seal Both Vision and Prophet.

God had three prophets in operation at the same time. Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Three prophets prophesying, but He was giving them two different end time narratives, Everything would hinge on Israel's behavior during the 70 weeks, and especially the first half of the 70th week.. 70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks were "chawthak" or cut off. It really was Old Israel's one last and final chance:

• to finish the transgression,
• to put an end to sin,
• and to atone for iniquity,
• to bring in everlasting righteousness,
• to seal both vision and prophet,
• and to anoint a most holy place.

It was in their midst. All that they would have had to do was to accept their Messiah. It's why John the Baptist was always saying that the Kingdom of God was at hand. Because it really was at hand right then and there. If the Old Time Jews would have cooperated and accepted their Messiah it would have been a completely different world right now. Daniel would have remained forever sealed, Revelation would have never been written. We would have built Ezekiel's Temple sometime in the middle ages.

The original plan was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, then Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away because it really was "at hand" at that time. John the Baptist would not have died the way that he did, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be saved to come and live there in the Kingdom of God in the 1st century. The good news of the Kingdom of God would have travelled far and fast. Jerusalem would have eventually grown to such a huge population that it's walls could no longer contain it.

Then, after some time, Satan in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City but Jesus would destroy him and his army where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.

But now instead, Paul gets knocked off his horse, the NT and Revelation gets written, Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, we get an end time Babylon, an end time Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses of 144,000, Jesus makes His second Visitation and we have a brand New Jerusalem with an end time variation on Gog Magog.
Does this describe how the crucifixion occurred?:

Him Whom They Have Pierced

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.​

Is this how it happened after the Crucifixion? Or is this describing the original method of how Jesus would have been sacrificed as the Lamb if humanity had not turned Him over to the enemy? I don't remember too many of those tribes weeping very hard. Just mostly His family and close friends.

Even though I myself doubt Zechariah is happening exactly as it is written, there are certain parallels I find awesome.

"On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day known only to the LORD, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.​

I imagine this as how it will be at Judgement Day at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20. A Day like no other. Where God is in control of the light, the temperature, the wind and everything else. That's going to be spooky. A day like no other.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[ewq1938]

My understanding is that it's the same Jerusalem. But that Zechariah's Jerusalem was part of a specific Day of the Lord event which would have, could have, taken place if the first century Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks of Daniel 9.

I have a similar view but more along the lines of believing some OT prophecies changed or were done away with when the new cov. started so it was speaking of the old Jerusalem but in a prophecy I am not sure is meant to occur anymore.