Zechariah 14 and the Jerusalem meant in verse 2 vs the one meant in verse 11.

[Davidpt]

The first one.





Most render it as no more destruction.



Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Doesn't say never replaced...just no utter destruction. I don't interpret this as the NJ.

Ezekiel 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.


What do you do with a verse like this then? The text says every wall shall fall to the ground. Pretty sure that's going to include Jerusalem since it says this will happen in the land of Israel. Why destroy it during the 2nd coming if this same Jerusalem is going to be relevant during the millennium? That makes zero sense.

 

[Marty fox]

Verse 2 says this, for instance---and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. How does that remotely agree with what history records happened in 70 AD?

Then there is verse 3 to factor in--Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle

And if meaning the first century involving 70 AD, that means we are required to understand this verse like such, below, which is absurd.

Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those Romans on behalf of the unbelieving Jews, as when he fought in the day of battle

It says half will go into captivity and half will be killed meaning a part of in symbolic language. Most died and a great multitude were taken captiv.

God did eventually judge Rome and it’s leaders like Nero and the demonic beings influencing her for persecuting the saints. Verse 3 states that the Lord fights those nations it’s doesn’t say why it doesn’t say for destroying Jerusalem


But how about what I posted about “in that day”

When was the shepherd struck and the sheep scattered?

When did they look on Him who was pierced?

When did living water flow from Jerusalem to the nations?

Exactly what day was “in that day”?

Let the scriptures interpret the scriptures

 

[Davy]

Apparently you don't understand that the resurrection of "All" takes place at the return of Jesus Christ (Then Cometh The End) there won't be a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many falsely teach

You are the false teacher, because Revelation 20 is declaring literally about a "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign with His elect priests of the "first resurrection".

 

[Truth7t7]

You are the false teacher, because Revelation 20 is declaring literally about a "thousand years" period of Christ's future reign with His elect priests of the "first resurrection".

Your problem is that you see the words "Thousand Years" as literal earthly time and it's not, the words "Zillion Years" could be used, the words "Thousand Years" represents God's eternal in the spiritual, its that simple

Is the time seen below in 2 Peter 3:8 one literal day or one thousand literal years?

"It's neither", it's doing nothing more than showing the human mind that in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm literal time doesn't exist, it's that simple

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Davidpt]

Your problem is that you see the words "Thousand Years" as literal earthly time and it's not, the words "Zillion Years" could be used, the words "Thousand Years" represents God's eternal in the spiritual, its that simple

Is the time seen below in 2 Peter 3:8 one literal day or one thousand literal years?

"It's neither", it's doing nothing more than showing the human mind that in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm literal time doesn't exist, it's that simple

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

It's an era of time consisting of 1000 literal years. It's that simple since that is the only thing that makes sense of the verse. The same way one day is an era of time consisting of a literal 24 hours. In order to prove the former wrong you first need to prove the latter wrong.

Something else to keep in mind is this. Nowhere in 2 Peter 3:8 does it say 2 days are with the Lord as a thousand years, nor does it say that of 3 days, nor of 4 days, so on and so on. It says that of one day. Which then agrees with my latter example since only 'one day' = 24 hours. 2 days certainly don't equal 24 hours, nor does 3 days, nor 4 days, so on and so on. Whenever you or anyone else can prove the latter wrong--one day is an era of time consisting of a literal 24 hours--that's when I will then fully agree that a literal thousand years isn't meant after all. Good luck proving the latter wrong though, since it would be impossible to do that unless one has lost all contact with reality or something.

One day is simply another way of saying an era of time involving a literal thousand years. The same way one day is simply another way of saying an era of time involving a literal 24 hours.

 

[ewq1938]

Ezekiel 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.


What do you do with a verse like this then? The text says every wall shall fall to the ground. Pretty sure that's going to include Jerusalem since it says this will happen in the land of Israel. Why destroy it during the 2nd coming if this same Jerusalem is going to be relevant during the millennium? That makes zero sense.

Walls are not the city...they surround a city. Less walls now than fences tho. I think all these tall things falling are symbolic more than literal.

 

[ewq1938]

Your problem is that you see the words "Thousand Years" as literal earthly time and it's not, the words "Zillion Years" could be used

If one seeks to remove or add to Rev...not wise tho

, the words "Thousand Years" represents God's eternal in the spiritual, its that simple

No, it doesn't have that meaning. Teh Greek term used means exactly a thousand of years. It does not mean any less, nor any more. There is a way to use Greek to represent an known amount but that was not used in Rev 20.

Is the time seen below in 2 Peter 3:8 one literal day or one thousand literal years?

Both are literal.

 

[Zao is life]

It's an era of time consisting of 1000 literal years. It's that simple since that is the only thing that makes sense of the verse. The same way one day is an era of time consisting of a literal 24 hours. In order to prove the former wrong you first need to prove the latter wrong.

Something else to keep in mind is this. Nowhere in 2 Peter 3:8 does it say 2 days are with the Lord as a thousand years, nor does it say that of 3 days, nor of 4 days, so on and so on. It says that of one day. Which then agrees with my latter example since only 'one day' = 24 hours. 2 days certainly don't equal 24 hours, nor does 3 days, nor 4 days, so on and so on. Whenever you or anyone else can prove the latter wrong--one day is an era of time consisting of a literal 24 hours--that's when I will then fully agree that a literal thousand years isn't meant after all. Good luck proving the latter wrong though, since it would be impossible to do that unless one has lost all contact with reality or something.

One day is simply another way of saying an era of time involving a literal thousand years. The same way one day is simply another way of saying an era of time involving a literal 24 hours.

"Yes, in your eyes a thousand years are like a week that quickly passes, or like seven divisions of the nighttime".

Actually it says this:

"Yes, in your eyes a thousand years are like yesterday that quickly passes, or like one of the divisions of the nighttime." Psalm 90:4.

It's "amazing" how Peter did not change what Psalms says about what a thousand years is like in God's eyes, to say "like many periods of time" or something similar that would mean many periods of time.

Actually it's not amazing. It's amazing how people can change the meaning of scripture into something it does not mean in order to make scripture comply with a theology based on an interpretation of scripture that's obviously as flawed as the fallible human understanding that produced it.

Copy @Truth7t7

 

[Davy]

Your problem is that you see the words "Thousand Years" as literal earthly time and it's not, the words "Zillion Years" could be used, the words "Thousand Years" represents God's eternal in the spiritual, its that simple

I don't have a problem with Bible Scripture. I heed it as written, and that even means when God's Word gives a symbol, I recognize it when it is being given as a symbol, or if given as being literal.

But you are in confusion, and cannot tell the difference between either, because you don't 'keep' God's Word as written, but instead you keep man's word. I've met those involved in the Occult secret fraternities that claim... to be Christians pushing men's doctrines all the time, and many of them of the Lesser Mysteries not really understanding what they are involved in, nor do they realize that the higher level members do know, and are behind Lucifer's coming to our world whom they will setup as king of the world in place of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

It's an era of time consisting of 1000 literal years. It's that simple since that is the only thing that makes sense of the verse.

"False"

Does God own the cattle on just "A Thousand Hills"?

"No" he owns the cattle upon "All" hills, the word "Thousand" is used to symbolize "All" not literally "A Thousand" but a incomprehensible number

Psalm 50:10KJV
10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Your problem is that you see the words "Thousand Years" as literal earthly time and it's not, the words "Zillion Years" could be used, the words "Thousand Years" represents God's eternal in the spiritual, its that simple

Is the time seen below in 2 Peter 3:8 one literal day or one thousand literal years?

"It's neither", it's doing nothing more than showing the human mind that in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm literal time doesn't exist, it's that simple

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Davy]

"False"

Does God own the cattle on just "A Thousand Hills"?

That's OCCULTIC type reasoning friends in Christ. It just goes around in circles not making any sense.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't have a problem with Bible Scripture. I heed it as written, and that even means when God's Word gives a symbol, I recognize it when it is being given as a symbol, or if given as being literal.

False, No you don't

Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, you can't take "The Souls" of beheaded tribulation saints in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm and try to turn them into living physical body's on this earth in a make believe Millennial Kingdom that doesn't exist in scripture

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's OCCULTIC type reasoning friends in Christ. It just goes around in circles not making any sense.

Nothing occultic at all as you falsely claim

"Thousand Years" in Revelation 20:4-6 represents the Lord's eternal spiritual realm where there isn't literal time as post #32 above clearly shows

The "First Resurrection" takes place at the future second coming (Then Cometh The End) with no 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth following, it's that simple

Many just don't want to let go of their little pet 1,000 year kingdom on this earth that doesn't exist in scripture

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's OCCULTIC type reasoning friends in Christ. It just goes around in circles not making any sense.

Revelation 20:6 "The First Resurrection" Explained​

There will be "Two Future Resurrections" on "The Last Day" the righteous saved are "Blessed" to be in "The First Resurrection" to eternal life, the second death resurrection has no power over the righteous saved

The second death will see the unsaved wicked being in "The Second Resurrection" to eternal damnation in the lake of fire, or the "Second Death"

"The Last Day" Resurrection of "All"

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 20:6KJV
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

1.) The First Resurrection To Eternal Life
2.) The Second Resurrection To Eternal Damnation, Second Death

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

(The First Resurrection Of The Righteous Saved) The Dead In Christ Shall Rise "First"

1 Thessalonians 4:16KJV
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(The Second Resurrection Of The Wicked To The Second Death In Eternal Damnation)

Revelation 20:13-14KJV
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[Davy]

False, No you don't

Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, you can't take "The Souls" of beheaded tribulation saints in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm and try to turn them into living physical body's on this earth in a make believe Millennial Kingdom that doesn't exist in scripture

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

Like I said, you are in CONFUSION, and cannot tell your right from your left, just as was prophesied in the Book of Isaiah about some folks at the end of this world.

Revelation 20 does NOT... have to say the words, 'Millennial Kingdom' to know that is exactly... what it is talking about, and why... is that? Because it makes LITERAL statements showing Jesus had come, and had already gathered His saints that will reign with Him, and... it literally... declares that reign as a literal period of a "thousand years" over the unsaved nations, without... Satan's influence.

There's so much there in Revelation 20 that is to happen during that period so that NO mention of that "thousand years" would detract from the meaning of the whole chapter! But that is exactly what the pagan Occultists behind their theory of Amillennialism seeks to do, even all the way back to the 2nd century A.D. when those pagan Gnostics began creeping into the Christian Church.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that those pagan Gnostics behind the false theory of Amillennialism are still active to this day. Those are who are running today's Occult secret societies in preparation for their coming king Lucifer.

 

[Davy]

Nothing occultic at all as you falsely claim

Oh yes it is. You should look up Church history about Origen of Alexandria, Egypt, about what he was ex-communicated for. He tried to make The Bible into huge allegorical interpretations JUST LIKE YOU'VE BEEN WRONGLY TAUGHT TO DO with believing the pagan theory of Amillennialism.

You cannot tell what is 'DIRECT' literal Truth in God's Word vs. when God's Word is using symbols to point to some literal Truth. That kind of confusion is especially what involvement in an occult secret society like the Masons will do to one's mind.

 

[Truth7t7]

Like I said, you are in CONFUSION, and cannot tell your right from your left, just as was prophesied in the Book of Isaiah about some folks at the end of this world.

Revelation 20 does NOT... have to say the words, 'Millennial Kingdom' to know that is exactly... what it is talking about, and why... is that? Because it makes LITERAL statements showing Jesus had come, and had already gathered His saints that will reign with Him, and... it literally... declares that reign as a literal period of a "thousand years" over the unsaved nations, without... Satan's influence.

There's so much there in Revelation 20 that is to happen during that period so that NO mention of that "thousand years" would detract from the meaning of the whole chapter! But that is exactly what the pagan Occultists behind their theory of Amillennialism seeks to do, even all the way back to the 2nd century A.D. when those pagan Gnostics began creeping into the Christian Church.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that those pagan Gnostics behind the false theory of Amillennialism are still active to this day. Those are who are running today's Occult secret societies in preparation for their coming king Lucifer.

Sorry but no 1,000 year kingdom on this earth exists in Revelation 20:1-6 or any part of scripture in the Holy Bible, it's a fabricated man made fairy tale

Jesus returns in the resurrection of all, and in fire and final judgement (The End) no 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth following


Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm, you can't take "The Souls" of beheaded tribulation saints in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm and try to turn them into living physical body's on this earth in a make believe Millennial Kingdom that doesn't exist in scripture

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Dont Be Deceived​

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Davy]

Sorry but no 1,000 year kingdom on this earth exists in Revelation 20:1-6 or any part of scripture in the Holy Bible, it's a fabricated man made fairy tale

You keep making that kind of affirmation against... God's written Word in Revelation 20 which shows differently, but your state of confusion by pagan occultism won't allow you to grasp the literal "thousand years" of Revelation 20.

And as I have said many times before of what an 'affirmation' is, it simply means a statement AS IF IT WERE FACT, not... that it is a proven... fact. Another term for it is WISHFUL THINKING.

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh yes it is. You should look up Church history about Origen of Alexandria, Egypt, about what he was ex-communicated for. He tried to make The Bible into huge allegorical interpretations JUST LIKE YOU'VE BEEN WRONGLY TAUGHT TO DO with believing the pagan theory of Amillennialism.

You cannot tell what is 'DIRECT' literal Truth in God's Word vs. when God's Word is using symbols to point to some literal Truth. That kind of confusion is especially what involvement in an occult secret society like the Masons will do to one's mind.

Respond to the scripture before your eyes, when Jesus returns the resurrection takes place (Then Cometh The End) there isn't a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth between verses 23-24 below, you run from biblical truth "Why"?

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim

You falsely teach Jesus returns to start a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, the scripture below teaches when Jesus returns it's (The End)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Davidpt]

"False"

Does God own the cattle on just "A Thousand Hills"?

"No" he owns the cattle upon "All" hills, the word "Thousand" is used to symbolize "All" not literally "A Thousand" but a incomprehensible number

Psalm 50:10KJV
10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Your problem is that you see the words "Thousand Years" as literal earthly time and it's not, the words "Zillion Years" could be used, the words "Thousand Years" represents God's eternal in the spiritual, its that simple

Is the time seen below in 2 Peter 3:8 one literal day or one thousand literal years?

"It's neither", it's doing nothing more than showing the human mind that in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm literal time doesn't exist, it's that simple

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Seriously, what do hills have to do with years? They are not the same concept. A thousand hills literally means every hill, even if there are billions of hills. One can't argue in the same manner regarding years though, that a thousand years mean every single year since the beginning of time through the end of time. What if God had said 'on a hundred hills'? What then? How would that be any different than saying 'on a thousand hills'? It's the same concept either way.

The problem is not this, that in some cases, depending on context, a thousand isn't literally meaning exactly 1000. What the problem is, is this. Amils seem to be insisting that there is nowhere in all of the Bible that a thousand can mean exactly 1000. Imagine that, a thousand can never mean exactly 1000, it can only mean an amount greater than 1000.