The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Tong2020]

So not everyone appropriates what Jesus did for them.

That He did it for them whether they appropriate it or not is a fact of holy scripture.

Jesus Christ was the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world ~ atonement. He however did not offer His life as a sin offering for the forgiveness of the sins of the world, but only for them whom the Father has given the Son. Jesus did not needlessly die for those who were not given to the Son and have His precious blood wasted.

Tong
R1974

 

[Tong2020]

That makes no sense. Of course everyone isn't going to be saved, because not everyone responds to God. And he spent a lot of time railing on false teachers to assure that the people knew what to do to be saved and remain saved. The " they" is us if we fall into falsehoods or fail to understand the gospel.

<<<Of course everyone isn't going to be saved, because not everyone responds to God.>>>

Salvation is God’s and is the work of God. It is God who saves them whom He wills to save, and is Him who works and will bring about their salvation.

Tong
R1975

 

[Tong2020]

The difference is that you apparently think some are chosen to be saved and some are chosen to be the wicked. We get to decide whether we will be " us" or " them"

Some were indeed chosen for salvation from everlasting punishment and unto eternal life, them whom the Father gives to the Son. The rest remains condemned, but not because they were chosen to be wicked. They are those whom God had given up to uncleanness, to vile passions, and to a debased mind.

Tong
R1976

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Those passages given by others on the other hand speaks of Jesus' sacrifice for atonement of sin of the world.

The problem with the cult of Calvinism is that its adherents have been so thoroughly BRAINWASHED, that they cannot adjust their minds to what is actually found in Scripture.

You could present 100 Scripture passages which clearly refute Calvinism, but it would be just like presenting Scriptures to the JWs. Not one of those verses actually registers, and breaks the bondage to false doctrine. That's how serious this affliction is.

So for those who are non-Calvinists, it is a total waste of time and energy to discuss Five Point Calvinism. Your efforts should be directed to other matters.

What has my post in the quote box got to do with calvinism and the calvinist?

Do you have any issue/s with my post there in the quotebox?

Tong
R1977

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

I still smell Calvinism.

From the title of the thread and all the way though it,
and I disagree with this:

"So for those who are non-Calvinists, it is a total waste of time and energy to discuss Five Point Calvinism. Your efforts should be directed to other matters."

These threads are read by other than Calvinists - it is for them - the unbrainwashed - that our efforts are directed, lest it go unchallenged that Christ only had a "Limited Atonement"

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

Jesus loves the little children
Some of all types of all the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and white
Some are precious in His sight
Jesus loves some of the children of the world

 

[Renniks]

Some were indeed chosen for salvation from everlasting punishment and unto eternal life, them whom the Father gives to the Son. The rest remains condemned, but not because they were chosen to be wicked. They are those whom God had given up to uncleanness, to vile passions, and to a debased mind.

Tong
R1976

If this were true, no one could know they are saved. If this were true, perhaps we are all being deceived by God and not one of us is saved. What good news! But, the "chosen" are those who have received Christ. We don't have to worry about whether God chose us or not.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[Renniks]

Jesus Christ was the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world ~ atonement. He however did not offer His life as a sin offering for the forgiveness of the sins of the world,

How many other direct contradictions do you believe? It must be difficult to carry around such opposing ideas in one's head. Didn't work for me.

 

[Wrangler]

If you believe in free will (which I don't for the most part) ... If you believe in predestination (as I do), its really no different.

Is there no way to reconcile these schools of thought?

Our entire justice system & morality is based on Free Will. Having said that, I am not limiting God, who exists outside of time, to know ahead of time, what all our choices will be.

Should we let all the prisoners out and defund the police & military? If not, we are punishing people who cannot help themselves, right?

 

[Enoch111]

What has my post in the quote box got to do with calvinism and the calvinist?

It has everything to do with Calvinism, which denies that Christ died for the sins of the whole world. That is called "Limited Atonement".

 

[Enoch111]

I still smell Calvinism.

And it stinks.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus Christ was the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world ~ atonement. He however did not offer His life as a sin offering for the forgiveness of the sins of the world, but only for them whom the Father has given the Son. Jesus did not needlessly die for those who were not given to the Son and have His precious blood wasted.

Tong
R1974

So, if someone is not of the elect, Jesus didn't die for them, is that what you are saying?

If that is the case, then if someone is not of the elect, they cannot be saved even if they do what is prescribed scripturally in order to be saved (such as what is written in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39 or Romans 10:8-13).

That would mean that if they come to Him, Jesus will cast them out.

Basically unscriptural (John 6:37).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Eternally Grateful: I have already discussed the "whosoever" issue. It is an identification mark more than it is an open invitation. Now if you want to claim I am stuck on one scripture and am trying to force it into other, you are incorrect. I simply believe what it says, as it says it. I am not trying to explain the verse to change its meaning, nor am I trying to use "whosoever" to trump it.

As for me not being special: you are right: I am not! If I am called of God and predestined before the foundations of the world, I don't deserve it. I fully agree!

Yet by the mere fact of you claiming you were chosen and your neighbor not being chosen, You are declaring yourself to be special.

Whether you agree with this summation of what you believe is beside the point

You may have discussed it. But your discussion did not explain in a detail that would cause me to change my thinking.

 

[FHII]

Yet by the mere fact of you claiming you were chosen and your neighbor not being chosen, You are declaring yourself to be special.

Whether you agree with this summation of what you believe is beside the point

You may have discussed it. But your discussion did not explain in a detail that would cause me to change my thinking.

Well its terrible that you are so bitter about it.

 

[Brakelite]

Yes its a myth, and Im showing why with scripture.

So your scripture contradicts my scripture????

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well its terrible that you are so bitter about it.

Who said I was better? Maybe you should try not to assume things

 

[brightfame52]

If we have no choice, then why is Jesus nothing to preach to people who will go wherever they were programmed to go?
Of course it says we have a choice, it's all through scripture.

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

In your theology that should read: "If God forces you through the narrow gate, you'll be saved, otherwise you're damned."
We are constantly told to enter, to put on Christ, to have faith, all which we can't do in your twisted theology.

You not making any sense. Jesus gathers His Sheep, they hear His voice and follow Him. Read Jn 10.

 

[brightfame52]

So your scripture contradicts my scripture????

In your imagination.

 

[brightfame52]

Jbf

So, if someone is not of the elect, Jesus didn't die for them, is that what you are saying?

Correct!

 

[Brakelite]

In your imagination.

Okay, if it's just my imagination, then please explain how a scripture such as the following...

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 ¶ Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

means one thing to me, as it naturally reads in the language presented both in translation and in original mss, but means the opposite to you?

And while you're here, please answer me this question. How do you know that you, individually as a distinct person, are one of the saved and your confession of Him not just a self-deceiving hoax? How do you know that you are one of the elect?