The mark of the beast:

[bbyrd009]

 

[bbyrd009]

I don’t mean to be rude OK G, it’s just why are you going out of your way to demonstrate your amazingness to me, apropos of nothing that I can see? I mean were three days now away from my question which didn’t get answered, wth? I rescind the question/observation OK?

 

[Acolyte]

It's not so much things I've done, moreso, things that were done to me which aren't comparable to what I've done (probably because I learned on what not to do, and how it feels when it's done to you). Bascially the multiple times in childhood where I was molested. Not just once or twice, or even within a few months, but separate times throughout childhood. Then raped as an adult. These are the memories that I can't live with, and don't want to live with, and the sheer thought of having to live eternally with them, that makes me shudder - I can't even live with them still, here and now, what am I gonna do for freaking eternity???

I don't know about my dad - crossed a few lines to me that were easy not to cross. Like scolding me for putting another's interests ahead of my own, then he goes to church on Sunday - like does that even conflict to him or does he just not know what's he doing? And if he doesn't know what he's doing, why should I listen to him, or anyone like that for that matter.

He tells me how to wear my hair, what clothes to wear - and I'm in my 40s. Talk about control freak...geez. Sometimes, I just want to respond with "just do it yourself and leave me out of it". lol

Isaiah 65:16-17 (kjv)
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Hope that helps. :)

 

[Giuliano]

In my opinion the question is moot because you are forcing a perspective that was not meant to be portrayed? In other words you are deliberately conflating spiritually dead with literally dead to make a point that just I don’t think it’s going to fly.

Now do you have witnesses to the event you claimed or not, because really I don’t care I hope you understand, it’s just would be necessary in order to make your point

You asked why I believed what I did. I told you that many of my beliefs are based on personal experience. At this point, I regret answering your question back in post 173. I did not ask you to believe as I do based on my personal experiences.

As believers we of course all would love to believe that Jesus was witnessed speaking with Moses and Elijah in a miraculous event, rather than what the passage was meant to portray, In my opinion

You have your opinion about the afterlife. Your interpretation is based on that belief. Don't think it's just me -- there have been other people who talked with the saints, and there are some who visited Purgatory. While I don't agree with either the Jews or the Catholics on everything, I see that they have preserved a tradition about the afterlife while Protestants invented new traditions; and my own personal experience also tells me how to read certain passages. While I never met Elijah, I can believe it when a prominent figure in Judaism talked about meeting him. It makes complete sense to me.

My point is that you have no witnesses to your event, and for a very good reason

You can draw any conclusion you want; but I can point out to you you have probably not experienced anything about the afterlife. You are following a tradition about how to interpret the Bible; and a further point would be you have probably have no real evidence that the Bible itself is true. You just believe it is. Men thousands of year wrote it, and you say, "Yes, I can believe what they wrote is true."

Sorry I’m not at a computer to be able to access where right now, maybe a witness could fill in for us here.
OK well for the record no offense but I didn’t pay attention to most of that OK If you have a question and would like to ask it all by itself I could give some replyif you like, But with all due respect my guess is the question will also be moot

You can write "with all due respect," but I find it lacking in respect to ignore what I write.

Of coarse, it’s Scotty all over again bro and I wish you the best OK have a nice day.

Jesus asks why do you call me good but you ask why do you think I’m bad, right? No offense but I’m on data ok. I feel like I’m being put in the position of assuring you that your penis is so much bigger than mine, don’t know if you get the ref or not?

I don't care to get the reference. It's not relevant to me.

I don’t mean to be rude OK G, it’s just why are you going out of your way to demonstrate your amazingness to me, apropos of nothing that I can see? I mean were three days now away from my question which didn’t get answered, wth? I rescind the question/observation OK?

You asked. "From a mithraist POV, certainly. See because you are convinced that you are going to go somewhere after you literally die and live some second life, right?" I don't consider my visions that amazing. Unusual perhaps but not that amazing. I don't think they make me better than others.

What I will say at this point is that you appear to be part of the crowd that is the blind leading the blind. Don't look at me -- I don't want to be anyone's teacher -- but I suggest you try to find "witnesses" you trust who have seen some things for themselves. The saying goes, "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." As it stands, you seem to have either a tradition you received or a system you made up yourself for how to interpret the Bible. I was willing to be a student -- and I do not mean under mortal men who are spiritually blind. You never know what might happen if you find the right teacher.

I went back and searched this thread for "sons." Your post (# 52) containing that question was not directed at me. Now I will admit I don't read every post in threads I post in. That was directed at 4Jesus. Somehow you seemed to think I should know what you meant when you posted to me later. Maybe I should read all the posts, but I didn't and confess I probably won't in the future.

you might find where Samuel is brought up by the Witch of Endor for Saul, and says to Saul "you and your sons will be here with me." But this is verified many other places, Isaiah, Job, NT "no one has ever gone up to heaven, but he who came down from it; the son of man," etc. "There is only One Immortal." on and on.

Do you want to discuss Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus? Nicodemus understood what Jesus said. Very few Christians do. I alluded to it peripherally in one of my posts; but you didn't seem to catch it. Here's the problem: Most Christians receive a tradition about what "born again" or "born from above" or "born of the Spirit" means. They think Nicodemus was a dunce; they think they know more than he did. Yet what Jesus said to him convinced him that Jesus was Messiah. He became a convert who defended Jesus and who helped at his burial.

You seem to think that passage is saying no one ever can go to Heaven except Jesus. Is that what you think it's saying? That cannot be the right take on it since other passages tell us about how other men visited Heaven. Most Christians do not understand that passage; and the Jewish authors of the New Testament said little about it since it was a topic Jews who did know seldom discussed. That was one reason Jesus criticized them.

Matthew 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

It was a mystery then, and it remains pretty much of a mystery today too. John doesn't say too much; Paul mentions it here and there while Peter warns about the unlearned and unstable getting confused by what Paul wrote.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No computer chip will condemn you, for it is your faith that you will be judged by.

Agree on the computer chip.

However, we will not get your bread through worshipping the Antichrist, or relying on his system.

Good you brought up bread: Genesis 47:13-15 And there was no bread in all the land; for the famine was very sore, so that the land of Egypt and all the land of Canaan fainted by reason of the famine. [14] And Joseph gathered up all the money that was found in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, for the corn which they bought: and Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh's house. [15] And when money failed in the land of Egypt, and in the land of Canaan, all the Egyptians came unto Joseph, and said, Give us bread: for why should we die in thy presence? for the money faileth.

“and when the money failed” ...”which leads into what you said here.

Learn what you must have to fill your needs, and stock up on it. Learn how to barter, and God will protect you. Satan will try to win you over, however, Do not participate in his system.

Where does our bread come from? Consider “give us Lord our daily bread” do we not already have a store in time of trouble? To deal out bread to the hungry? A bread which fails not.

Genesis 47:13-15 And there was no bread in all the land; for the famine was very sore, so that the land of Egypt and all the land of Canaan fainted by reason of the famine.

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

But God said: Philippians 3:19-20 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[bbyrd009]

You asked why I believed what I did.

Well my apologies, I can’t actually find where I asked you that, the whole reason I engage with you is because you made a factual statement that one could not pass easily between paradise and Hell, based on the parable of the rich man And Lazarus of course, another words the perception of the great Golf golf golf GULF as being a literal one rather than a spiritual one?

And I don’t know OK? I likely even OU an apology, I tend to speak in impressions, and your detailing of your experiences with the dead might have some relevance that I am not able to see yet for all I know.

But since were on the subject I would ask how do you know that was Abraham? And I’ll just leave the many other statements that you’ve made alone for now

 

[bbyrd009]

You have your opinion about the afterlife.

It might seem that way, but I can assure you that I have virtually no opinion about any quote after life whatsoever. “Afterlife“ OK that’s how you do that LOL. “We do not yet know what we will become” “no one knows where they go when they die” etc.

so I guess it might appear like I’m arguing from a position here? But really I am just challenging your statements of fact, and holding them up again scripture that is coming to mind, that in my mind contest them. Which doesn’t mean I’m right either :-)

 

[bbyrd009]

Don't think it's just me -- there have been other people who talked with the saints, and there are some who visited Purgatory.

Well so you say, and so they say, but with all due respect we have a name for these people, that may not be accurate, I don’t know, but as believers we also have a characterization Of them based on scripture, and you have chosen to use the one with Jesus and ignore the others apparently, which is why I asked for witnesses.

You seem like a very good hearted person OK, but good hearted people can be deceived too

 

[bbyrd009]

Purgatory

So now I’ll make a statement; no one has ever visited purgatory because it doesn’t exist as far as we know, and I would challenge you to prove that wrong, from Scripture, Which with all due respect pretty definitively states “you and your sons will be here with me”

 

[bbyrd009]

afterlife

Do you recall what the pastor said as you were being ritually baptized, Giuliana? No offense man but I got a wonder why no one ever takes THAT literally. If any words in my posts seem to make no sense, please let me know I’m doing voice to text and it’s not there yet LOL

 

[bbyrd009]

You can draw any conclusion you want; but I can point out to you you have probably not experienced anything about the afterlife. You are following a tradition about how to interpret the Bible;

Boy if I am following any tradition about how to interpret the Bible, I would sure like to meet those people! “We do not yet know what we will become“ and “no one knows where they go when they die“ are all scripture Giuliano, that I am not trying to interpret, and you might comment On them if you like

and a further point would be you have probably have no real evidence that the Bible itself is true. You just believe it is. Men thousands of year wrote it, and you say, "Yes, I can believe what they wrote is true."

Well to my mind I have plenty of evidence, but I think I understand your position a little better now, and thank you

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't care to get the reference. It's not relevant to me.

It may not be, yes, but that is the impression I’m getting now. Doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing necessarily I don’t know. But you also say you aren’t familiar with Mithraism, and you make statements that indicate you are intimately familiar with it? So I hope you understand my position

 

[Giuliano]

Well my apologies, I can’t actually find where I asked you that, the whole reason I engage with you is because you made a factual statement that one could not pass easily between paradise and Hell, based on the parable of the rich man And Lazarus of course, another words the perception of the great Golf golf golf GULF as being a literal one rather than a spiritual one?

I was not next to where the two intersect. I can't vouch for it if they do; but my assumption is it's a spiritual one. My guess is too that if someone seriously tried to cross it, he would drop out of space and time -- into what is called the bottomless pit.

And I don’t know OK? I likely even OU an apology, I tend to speak in impressions, and your detailing of your experiences with the dead might have some relevance that I am not able to see yet for all I know.

That's fine. I was having difficulty knowing where you were coming from.

But since were on the subject I would ask how do you know that was Abraham? And I’ll just leave the many other statements that you’ve made alone for now

I "just knew." There was no thinking involved. Although I couldn't remember meeting him before, I think perhaps I had. Every spirit has its unique presence spiritually -- a "feeling." You don't need to see it if you can "feel" its presence. Spirits can alter their appearance if they want; but you can still "read" the unique signature of its presence.

Humans often lose track how to "just know" things. Their minds are too busy going clickety-clack trying to reason things out logically.

Well so you say, and so they say, but with all due respect we have a name for these people, that may not be accurate, I don’t know, but as believers we also have a characterization Of them based on scripture, and you have chosen to use the one with Jesus and ignore the others apparently, which is why I asked for witnesses.

What am I ignoring? Jesus talked about Paradise and Gehinnom. Do you think they're fictional?

As for witnesses, you could get a pile of them; but you still wouldn't know for sure until you see something for yourself.

So now I’ll make a statement; no one has ever visited purgatory because it doesn’t exist as far as we know, and I would challenge you to prove that wrong, from Scripture,

Purgatory and Gehinnom are the same place. How would people know about them if they got mentioned? Jonah said he was in "sheol" -- will that work? He "remembered" God and called on Him and was delivered. Now those who are dead spiritually although their physical bodies are alive, will not remember God when their bodies die. Some go to sleep; some to Gehinnom, some to Paradise.

Which with all due respect pretty definitively states “you and your sons will be here with me”

You keep repeating this as if it's saying something that refutes my position. I don't understand. Didn't Saul and his sons die and join Samuel as predicted?

But you also say you aren’t familiar with Mithraism, and you make statements that indicate you are intimately familiar with it?

Beats me what relationship my beliefs have with Mithraism. I'd say they're closer to Judaism, Catholicism and Buddhism. Many religions share concepts.

 

[Giuliano]

Do you recall what the pastor said as you were being ritually baptized, Giuliana? No offense man but I got a wonder why no one ever takes THAT literally. If any words in my posts seem to make no sense, please let me know I’m doing voice to text and it’s not there yet LOL

I recall the scene but not the words.

Boy if I am following any tradition about how to interpret the Bible, I would sure like to meet those people! “We do not yet know what we will become“

Exactly what the saints will be is an unknown. Some things can be known; but there appears to be some sort of impediment preventing the saints taking their full and final form. My guess is it has something to do with the "beasts" of the water and of the earth being subdued finally and completely.

and “no one knows where they go when they die“ are all scripture Giuliano, that I am not trying to interpret, and you might comment On them if you like

I'm not familiar with that passage.

 

[Davy]

The mark of Cain was given to Cain because he complained to God that everyone in the earth that found him would would slay him. So God put a mark upon Cain to prevent that (Genesis 4:16). That is an advantage. One must study Cain's character and attributes to grasp just what that mark was.

 

[bbyrd009]

Every spirit has its unique presence spiritually -- a "feeling." You don't need to see it if you can "feel" its presence. Spirits can alter their appearance if they want; but you can still "read" the unique signature of its presence.

Well so you say, but with all due respect I don’t believe you; “Satan appears as an angel of light”

 

[bbyrd009]

Humans often lose track how to "just know" things. Their minds are too busy going clickety-clack trying to reason things out logically.

I agree with you as far as that goes, but I would be wary of being deceived which I think is easier than we would like to admit

 

[bbyrd009]

What am I ignoring? Jesus talked about Paradise and Gehinnom. Do you think they're fictional?

As literal places, yes; as spiritual concepts, no. Gehenna is on earth, right

 

[bbyrd009]

What am I ignoring?

“You and your sons will be here with me” and you are not ignoring it, you are out right refuting it correct?

 

[bbyrd009]

As for witnesses, you could get a pile of them; but you still wouldn't know for sure until you see something for yourself.

“Many witnesses establish the truth in a matter” and again I’m on cellular data OK no offense but I have to go now ok