The mark of the beast:

[VictoryinJesus]

The Mark of the beast is such a vast topic. It is the number of a man. Natural man. there is also that born of the Spirit and the number of God which is perfect. The word tells us of natural man and how he cannot receive the things of God because the things of God are foolishness to him. The word also shows sin warring in our member...bringing us again into captivity. Even warns against this being brought back into captivity again and the last state of that man is worst than the first. It is within us as a whole but also as an individual. Matthew 26:52-54 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. [53] Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? [54] But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

all they that ‘take the sword‘ shall perish...is repeated In Revelation 13:8-10 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. [9] If any man have an ear, let him hear. [10] He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

For a second let us just examine ourselves. “He that leads into captivity shall go into captivity.” and see there is in our members “He who leads into captivity.” Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

God said this “He who leads into captivity shall(indeed) go into captivity.” Psalm 68:18-22 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them. [19] Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah. [20] He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto God the Lord belong the issues from death. [21] But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses. [22] The Lord said, I will bring again from Bashan, I will bring my people again from the depths of the sea:

2 Corinthians 10:4-6 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
... bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
...he that leads into the captivity and “bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members ...”wars with the law of my mind”; yet ... “take every thought captive to Christ” and he who leads captive shall go into captivity.

God Wounded the head...of his enemies. Can that be denied? He cut the head off. Yet the world marvels at this fatal wound which heals and wonder after the beast. the old man was fatally wounded...look around does (is)the beast rising up as if not already dead?

 

[4Jesus]

My take on the first beast being wounded, fatally, is to provide a proof that this beast is supernatural, and not just a human, who is to be followed, and furthermore, directed worship to. He's the coming "son" of satan, who they worship and follow.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

My take on the first beast being wounded, fatally, is to provide a proof that this beast is supernatural, and not just a human, who is to be followed, and furthermore, directed worship to. He's the coming "son" of satan, who they worship and follow.

The question I would have is: since he is not just “human” but supernatural...Who can fatally wound him? Only One I can think of and it is not man.

 

[4Jesus]

The question I would have is: since he is not just “human” but supernatural...Who can fatally wound him? Only One I can think of and it is not man.

That's a good point. The issue I have in understanding this aspect of Revelation, is the beast a human, and will be indwelt by satan, or just a demon in human form with satan directing him.

To me, it could go either way, and I don't think scripture gives us enough information to know definitively. But your point makes me lean towards the former, that the beast is/was a human, and when another wounds him fatally (possibly another human, directed by God-the-Father of course, or directly from God-the-Father), then satan heals him and proves that the beast is the messiah they've been waiting for, a supernatural being, to unite and lead the world.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

That's a good point. The issue I have in understanding this aspect of Revelation, is the beast a human, and will be indwelt by satan, or just a demon in human form with satan directing him.

To me, it could go either way, and I don't think scripture gives us enough information to know definitively. But your point makes me lean towards the former, that the beast is/was a human, and when another wounds him fatally (possibly another human, directed by God-the-Father of course, or directly from God-the-Father), then satan heals him and proves that the beast is the messiah they've been waiting for, a supernatural being, to unite and lead the world.

Understood...but have consider the son of perdition was walking with Jesus Christ in the Son said to the Father (for our benefit) I’ve kept all but the son of perdition SO THAT scripture may be fulfilled in all that was foretold of Christ. Judas was with Him then. Judas sat with him at the table, and carried the purse. ...but poor Judas is not the only one. Paul warned of receiving “another Jesus” even then. the son of Perdition mimics “a body” as Christ’s body is of “one mind” the mind of Christ ...so is the Anti-Christ of “one mind” against and opposes Christ. Revelation 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Even Pharaoh was told of God after being commanded “Let My people go so they can serve Me in the wilderness.” And “I have raised you for this purpose. To show my power unto the ends of the earth.” (Paraphrasing). Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.


You don’t have to agree ...it is just an opinion but there are ten kings...struck through...in God said He would strike through kings and pull them down and set others in their place. (King of King’s and Lord of Lord’s)
-Luke 19:13
[13] And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
-Luke 19:16-21
[16] Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. [17] And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. [18] And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. [19] And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. [20] And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: [21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.


Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Psalm 110:4-7
[4] The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. [5] The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. [6] He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries. [7] He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

Daniel 2:21-23 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: [22] He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him. [23] I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter.

(Imo) not that anyone has to agree but the image in Daniel is the Anti-Christ. (One mind, on body, raised to show God’s power to the ends of the earth). The ten toes the kings. That image is the one fatally wounded.

Then the express image of the Son a New Man. Perfect. Peace. Gathering away from the image of man and “brightness” where even satan appears as an angel (messenger of light) ...way from that and gathered unto (drawn)to Christ which is the image of God the Father which is Love.

 

[4Jesus]

I don't think we're saying anything really different, except for who "the Anti-Christ" is, which could only be either the dragon, the first beast, or the second beast.

All three, are antichrist, literally.

As for the title "Anti-Christ", scripture doesn't use the term except in 1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." - so if the Son of Perdition was around in Jesus time, which I agree with, then the scripture in 1 John 2:18 wouldn't say "that antichrist shall come", because he was already there/here.

I agree with your assessment that Daniel is speaking of the prophecy of the end times, linked to Revelation with the ten kingdoms.

I guess what I'm saying is, that the fatal wound that is healed, could be part of the supernatural evidence to convince people that their "messiah" has come.

I think that not only is it literal, but that it could also be metaphorical in that the system is the beast, and acts accordingly - meaning the system reflects what the beast commands the system to be.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I don't think we're saying anything really different, except for who "the Anti-Christ" is, which could only be either the dragon, the first beast, or the second beast.

All three, are antichrist, literally.

As for the title "Anti-Christ", scripture doesn't use the term except in 1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." - so if the Son of Perdition was around in Jesus time, which I agree with, then the scripture in 1 John 2:18 wouldn't say "that antichrist shall come", because he was already there/here.

I agree with your assessment that Daniel is speaking of the prophecy of the end times, linked to Revelation with the ten kingdoms.

I guess what I'm saying is, that the fatal wound that is healed, could be part of the supernatural evidence to convince people that their "messiah" has come.

I think that not only is it literal, but that it could also be metaphorical in that the system is the beast, and acts accordingly - meaning the system reflects what the beast commands the system to be.

Consider: Dragon.
Psalm 74:12-14
[12] For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth. [13] Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters. [14] Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Odd verse: 2 Kings 2:15-16 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him. [16] And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the Lord hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send.
?Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.


Ezekiel 32:5-10
[5] And I will lay thy flesh upon the mountains, and fill the valleys with thy height. [6] I will also water with thy blood the land wherein thou swimmest, even to the mountains; and the rivers shall be full of thee. [7] And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. [8] All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord God. [9] I will also vex the hearts of many people, when I shall bring thy destruction among the nations, into the countries which thou hast not known. [10] Yea, I will make many people amazed at thee, and their kings shall be horribly afraid for thee, when I shall brandish my sword before them; and they shall tremble at every moment, every man for his own life, in the day of thy fall.

Isaiah 27:1 In that day the Lord with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Have to get off here. Thank for the conversation. Interesting points and insight you have given. It is a lot. Also agree things are escalating and evil is growing or waxing old...not sure which.

 

[bbyrd009]

ah; did things used to be better than they are now, ViJ?

I don't think we're saying anything really different, except for who "the Anti-Christ" is, which could only be...

ok then

 

[bbyrd009]

fwiw this perspective of "things" getting worse is not true, ok, things are better right now, by any measure you care to use, than they have ever been. We are just constantly bombarded with news that speaks to the opposite, i guess? Certainly true from the perspective of the world though, yes
Ecclesiastes 7:10 Lexicon: Do not say, "Why is it that the former days were better than these?" For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

fwiw this perspective of "things" getting worse is not true, ok, things are better right now, by any measure you care to use, than they have ever been. We are just constantly bombarded with news that speaks to the opposite, i guess? Certainly true from the perspective of the world though, yes
Ecclesiastes 7:10 Lexicon: Do not say, "Why is it that the former days were better than these?" For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this.

Wow. Thank you. “Why is it the former days were better than these? Is asking why is the former better than the New. “For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this.”

Isaiah 43:18-19 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. [19] Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wow. Thank you. “Why is it the former days were better than these? Is asking why is the former better than the New. “For it is not from wisdom that you ask about this.”

Isaiah 43:18-19 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. [19] Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

not saying i don't mostly suffer from the same thing tho lol

 

[4Jesus]

ah; did things used to be better than they are now, ViJ?
ok then

Why is that a rolleyes-worthy response? Do you disagree that there's not three "main" players on the evil side mentioned in Revelation?

 

[Waiting on him]

Why is that a rolleyes-worthy response? Do you disagree that there's not three "main" players on the evil side mentioned in Revelation?

Antichrist means pseudo Christ= a like Christ, so hypothetically let’s say Antichrist isn’t a single man. If this were true who or what would Antichrist be in your opinion?

 

[4Jesus]

Antichrist means pseudo Christ= a like Christ, so hypothetically let’s say Antichrist isn’t a single man. If this were true who or what would Antichrist be in your opinion?

That could be one of two to four meanings. I've read it could mean:
-denier of Christ
-opposer of Christ
-like a Christ
-in place of Christ

1 Johm 4:3 "3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"

1 John 2:18 "18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

None of those uses are capitalized "Antichrist". Also, 1 John 2:18 shows that there are many antichrists, but there is also a singular form of antichrist. Both of these could be the "denier of Christ" at least. It could also mean "opposer of Christ", "like a Christ", or "in place of Christ", but we don't really know which of the these three also apply definitively.

To me, all religions (and the followers of) not OT Judaism and Christianity are antichrist. Any institution that results from satan's kingdom (such as governments and businesses) are antichrist.

 

[bbyrd009]

Why is that a rolleyes-worthy response? Do you disagree that there's not three "main" players on the evil side mentioned in Revelation?

ha, i still get worse in the afternoon i guess, sorry; guess you made some kinda definitive statement? brb...ya, so, literally speaking, i even like the post ok. I would just maybe avoid "could only be" statements a little more now, as these characterizations of antichrist are all me imo, if you then, being evil and all that?

so fwiw, i dont bother with this too much herenow, but as we are trained to apply all the good sounding vv to ourselves, and the bad sounding ones to um "other," and only bc yall seem quite conscientious, you might do the exact opposite?

And, if you like, although i must confess i have gotten very little support on this, but enough from the right quarters, you might also xplore the difference in satan's v the naive dialectic, which i have thought until now was just a way to speak, but i'm realizing is really the way we believers all think (first beast, perhaps)
Luke 11:26 Lexicon: "Then it goes and takes along seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first." (side-note "toilsome" for evil there).

and we'll maybe get into plucking out one's right eye soon here too, which i am terrible at, but at least i know i am lol; you got "rolleyes" bc my right eye offended me, yeh?

read this yet? What is the new Jerusalem constructed out of you might start where the discussion bifur...splits, about post 24. fwiw i cover the authors names by blowing up the page, but whatever. Nevermind the info for now, examine the...demeanors? right now. On the way to understanding satans dialectic, hopefully.

 

[Giuliano]

That could be one of two to four meanings. I've read it could mean:
-denier of Christ
-opposer of Christ
-like a Christ
-in place of Christ

1 Johm 4:3 "3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"

1 John 2:18 "18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

None of those uses are capitalized "Antichrist". Also, 1 John 2:18 shows that there are many antichrists, but there is also a singular form of antichrist. Both of these could be the "denier of Christ" at least. It could also mean "opposer of Christ", "like a Christ", or "in place of Christ", but we don't really know which of the these three also apply definitively.

To me, all religions (and the followers of) not OT Judaism and Christianity are antichrist. Any institution that results from satan's kingdom (such as governments and businesses) are antichrist.

Capital letters pose a problem for translators since the original Greek didn't have them.

 

[Giuliano]

My take on the first beast being wounded, fatally, is to provide a proof that this beast is supernatural, and not just a human, who is to be followed, and furthermore, directed worship to. He's the coming "son" of satan, who they worship and follow.

Does the Dark Side have the power to resurrect the dead?

 

[bbyrd009]

yup!

 

[Giuliano]

yup!

And call down fire from Heaven?

 

[bbyrd009]

And call down fire from Heaven?

oh ha no, cant really resurrect either i guess...hmm.
Dont we have a v, "some to everlasting glory, others to etcetc?" so hmm