The Gospel of Reconciliation

[brightfame52]

Reconciled to God by the death of His Son while Enemies !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciled to God, by Christs death, while being Enemies, even enemies in our minds by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Thats right, even while being alienated, estranged from God by nature and in nature, those Christ died for were reconciled to God by His death.

Now this is a Truth about Grace that the natural man cannot and will not receive, being void of the Spirit of God, it is foolishness to him, even a great stumblingblock !

You see it does mean, while those for whom Christ died are in themselves rebellious against God, they have been nevertheless reconciled or received into Gods Favor/Grace, which implies they have no sin, or iniquities, trespasses charged against them before God, for all these must be taken away, in order for God to receive us into His Favor/Reconciliation !

The word reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:

1. to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
2. to reconcile (those who are at variance)
3. return to favour with, be reconciled to one
4. to receive one into favour

So we know that their sins , iniquities have been removed because they cause separation from God as stated here Isa 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Christ's death does away with that separation and reconciles God to them into His Favor and Blessing ! This separation is done away with for them in the fact of Jesus Christ their Surety !

Both Parties are reconciled, God to them, they to God by the Perfect Law obedience they have imputed to them through Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19, and all this is True while they themselves are in a state of nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. See Col 1:21 !

 

[Rightglory]

Reconciled to God by the death of His Son while Enemies !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Reconciled to God, by Christs death, while being Enemies, even enemies in our minds by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Thats right, even while being alienated, estranged from God by nature and in nature, those Christ died for were reconciled to God by His death.

You have a theory that looks for isolated verses so you can say things that make no sense within scripture.
Your Rom 5:10 denies the truth of verse 12, and when Paul actually gives us the summation of Christ's work in verse 18 you totally ignore it to prop up your theory.
Then you jump to Col 1:21 and your statement here also denies the the truth of verse 20. Christ reconciled all things, not just believers which would be impossible being Incarnate with our human nature.
Vs 21 is speaking about believers but Paul, after making the generalization, goes to the particular. You consistantly deny the universality of Christ's redemptive work.

Now this is a Truth about Grace that the natural man cannot and will not receive, being void of the Spirit of God, it is foolishness to him, even a great stumblingblock !

You see it does mean, while those for whom Christ died are in themselves rebellious against God, they have been nevertheless reconciled or received into Gods Favor/Grace, which implies they have no sin, or iniquities, trespasses charged against them before God, for all these must be taken away, in order for God to receive us into His Favor/Reconciliation !

This statement shows the ignorance you have about what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection. Christ never removed any sin by virtue of His death and resurrection. The ONLY way to rid oneself from sin is by confession and repentance. Christ does not remove sin automatically by anything He did.

The word reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:

1. to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
2. to reconcile (those who are at variance)
3. return to favour with, be reconciled to one
4. to receive one into favour

So we know that their sins , iniquities have been removed because they cause separation from God as stated here Isa 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Christ's death does away with that separation and reconciles God to them into His Favor and Blessing ! This separation is done away with for them in the fact of Jesus Christ their Surety !

Both Parties are reconciled, God to them, they to God by the Perfect Law obedience they have imputed to them through Christ's Obedience Rom 5:19, and all this is True while they themselves are in a state of nature children of wrath as others Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. See Col 1:21 !

Christ's reconcilment brought life to mankind. It abolished death. Death is what separated man from God due to Adam. Now the secondary work of Christ was His sacrifice, shedding blood, for the forgiveness of sin, The sacrifice itself does not forgive sins. That may fit in the theory of Calvinism, but not in scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

You have a theory that looks for isolated verses so you can say things that make no sense within scripture.
Your Rom 5:10 denies the truth of verse 12, and when Paul actually gives us the summation of Christ's work in verse 18 you totally ignore it to prop up your theory.
Then you jump to Col 1:21 and your statement here also denies the the truth of verse 20. Christ reconciled all things, not just believers which would be impossible being Incarnate with our human nature.
Vs 21 is speaking about believers but Paul, after making the generalization, goes to the particular. You consistantly deny the universality of Christ's redemptive work.

This statement shows the ignorance you have about what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection. Christ never removed any sin by virtue of His death and resurrection. The ONLY way to rid oneself from sin is by confession and repentance. Christ does not remove sin automatically by anything He did.

Christ's reconcilment brought life to mankind. It abolished death. Death is what separated man from God due to Adam. Now the secondary work of Christ was His sacrifice, shedding blood, for the forgiveness of sin, The sacrifice itself does not forgive sins. That may fit in the theory of Calvinism, but not in scripture.

You cant believe the Truth

 

[Rightglory]

You cant believe the Truth

Typical of someone who cannot defend their interpretation (Calvins's) with scripture. I believe in the way, the Truth and the Life, which is Christ. You do not have a correct understanding of who Christ is and what He accomplished for us.
It is one thing to have a single idea that is proven false, based on scripture, but to have an entire systematic theological construct which has never been understood as scripture ever before Calvin in the 16th century. How could any of it been of the Holy Spirit. Logic would of necessity mean that no one had any Truth for 1500 years. Hardly what scripture states that His Truth would be preserved and protected by the Holy Spirit from the beginning, not starting in 1536. I Tim 3:15

Lets look at the principles of Calvin and how they stack up to Scripture historically.
Total Depravity is a view developed by Augustine in his debate with Pelagian. Both were denied by the Church as scriptural. It was not until the 11 century that Anselm and Abelard developed a theory of Satisfaction which incorporated Augustine's view of the fall. It became a doctrine of the RC and later was accepted by the Protestant reformers.
Unconditional election. This is a natural continuation of Augustine's view of predestination, a view he accepted from Manichaeism. Both are rejected by the Orthodox Church. In the 16th century the RC attempted to develop some form of predestination in an attempt to curb the large number of RC members converting to Protestantism.
Limited Atonement. This was a totally new idea of Calvin. It does logically follow the Augustinian idea of predestination as well as his view of the perseverance of the saints. It denies the biblical understanding of the Incarnation.
Irresistible grace. again, a logical sequence to the other points of Calvinism.
Perseverance of the saints, an Augustinian concept that logically follows predestination and irresistable grace.
All the points are constructs that were never doctrines from the beginning. They are all ideas created by men within the Church but never accepted by the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church declared Calvinism a heresy in the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672. Many unfortunately were adopted and embellished by the RC over the centuries before the Reformation, but then adopted by the reformers.

 

[brightfame52]

Typical of someone who cannot defend their interpretation (Calvins's) with scripture. I believe in the way, the Truth and the Life, which is Christ. You do not have a correct understanding of who Christ is and what He accomplished for us.
It is one thing to have a single idea that is proven false, based on scripture, but to have an entire systematic theological construct which has never been understood as scripture ever before Calvin in the 16th century. How could any of it been of the Holy Spirit. Logic would of necessity mean that no one had any Truth for 1500 years. Hardly what scripture states that His Truth would be preserved and protected by the Holy Spirit from the beginning, not starting in 1536. I Tim 3:15

Lets look at the principles of Calvin and how they stack up to Scripture historically.
Total Depravity is a view developed by Augustine in his debate with Pelagian. Both were denied by the Church as scriptural. It was not until the 11 century that Anselm and Abelard developed a theory of Satisfaction which incorporated Augustine's view of the fall. It became a doctrine of the RC and later was accepted by the Protestant reformers.
Unconditional election. This is a natural continuation of Augustine's view of predestination, a view he accepted from Manichaeism. Both are rejected by the Orthodox Church. In the 16th century the RC attempted to develop some form of predestination in an attempt to curb the large number of RC members converting to Protestantism.
Limited Atonement. This was a totally new idea of Calvin. It does logically follow the Augustinian idea of predestination as well as his view of the perseverance of the saints. It denies the biblical understanding of the Incarnation.
Irresistible grace. again, a logical sequence to the other points of Calvinism.
Perseverance of the saints, an Augustinian concept that logically follows predestination and irresistable grace.
All the points are constructs that were never doctrines from the beginning. They are all ideas created by men within the Church but never accepted by the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church declared Calvinism a heresy in the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672. Many unfortunately were adopted and embellished by the RC over the centuries before the Reformation, but then adopted by the reformers.

I have defended what I believe and post. Im not here to defend your stuff or explain it

 

[Rightglory]

I have defended what I believe and post. Im not here to defend your stuff or explain it

Do you believe that scripture, as Truth, supports all the thousands of interpretations that have come forth, especially in the last 500 years.?

 

[brightfame52]

They shall be also saved by His Life !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is one scripture with the Truth it contains, it assures us that Christ did not die for the sins of all mankind, unless all mankind shall be saved by His Life ! And we know the bible does not teach that all mankind without exception shall be saved by the Life of Christ !

However we know from this scripture : Those Christ died for were, while yet being enemies/unbelievers, reconciled to God ! How ? By the Death of His Son, that's how !

Now this being reconciled to God by His Sons death denotes forgiveness of sins, and here's why !

The word reconciled here katallassō and its the same word Paul uses in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

And this reconciliation consists of non imputation of their sins, which is forgiveness of sins according to scripture Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


So those in the world of 2 Cor 5:19, because of non imputation of their trespasses unto them, they are most blessedly forgiven and reconciled to God Rom 5:10, which is solely by the death of Christ for them, not because of their repentance, or believing, because it occurred while they were still being enemies ! 11

 

[Rightglory]

They shall be also saved by His Life !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This is one scripture with the Truth it contains, it assures us that Christ did not die for the sins of all mankind, unless all mankind shall be saved by His Life ! And we know the bible does not teach that all mankind without exception shall be saved by the Life of Christ !

Which, of course, denies direct teaching of scripture. Hebh 2:9. Then in I Cor 15:12-22 it speaks of all the dead being raised because Christ was raised from the dead. It also states that all men died through the condemnation of Adam', and all men will be given life, this is physical, eternal existence, because Christ arose from the dead. Rom 5:12 also states all men died because death spread to all men through the sin of Adam. No one was spared death, thus Christ in His Incarnation did not lose anything given to Him, all men will be raised in the last day, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:53-54.
If Christ had not been risen, no one would be saved because of His life. Because Christ saved mankind from death and sin Heb 9:14-15, through the consubstantiality of our human natures, man now has the opportunity to be in Union with Christ in this life, so that they might have everlasting life with Him in eternity. Where a person spends eternity depends on each individual.

However we know from this scripture : Those Christ died for were, while yet being enemies/unbelievers, reconciled to God ! How ? By the Death of His Son, that's how !

Now this being reconciled to God by His Sons death denotes forgiveness of sins, and here's why !

The word reconciled here katallassō and its the same word Paul uses in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The world was reconciled to God. What was wrong with the world. The world was subjected to death through Adam as well. Man was made from the earth. Thus when man was condemned to death, so was the world, meaning man is consubstantial with matter - the world. Christ became man, took on our human nature, thus also was consubstantial with the world. Reconcile here means to make right. Death was overcome by life. I Cor 15:21-22 makes this very clear. There is nothing here about sins, surely not sins being forgiven, simply by His resurrection. No place will you find such a concept in Scripture.
The idea that our sins were not imputed to us means that if they were Christ would not have come. He overlooked our tresspasses, even while we were enemies, He died for us. Rom 5: 15-18.

And this reconciliation consists of non imputation of their sins, which is forgiveness of sins according to scripture Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


So those in the world of 2 Cor 5:19, because of non imputation of their trespasses unto them, they are most blessedly forgiven and reconciled to God Rom 5:10, which is solely by the death of Christ for them, not because of their repentance, or believing, because it occurred while they were still being enemies ! 11

See above. These are texts you isolate from the immediate context, as well as the context of scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

Which, of course, denies direct teaching of scripture. Hebh 2:9. Then in I Cor 15:12-22 it speaks of all the dead being raised because Christ was raised from the dead. It also states that all men died through the condemnation of Adam', and all men will be given life, this is physical, eternal existence, because Christ arose from the dead. Rom 5:12 also states all men died because death spread to all men through the sin of Adam. No one was spared death, thus Christ in His Incarnation did not lose anything given to Him, all men will be raised in the last day, Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:53-54.
If Christ had not been risen, no one would be saved because of His life. Because Christ saved mankind from death and sin Heb 9:14-15, through the consubstantiality of our human natures, man now has the opportunity to be in Union with Christ in this life, so that they might have everlasting life with Him in eternity. Where a person spends eternity depends on each individual.

The world was reconciled to God. What was wrong with the world. The world was subjected to death through Adam as well. Man was made from the earth. Thus when man was condemned to death, so was the world, meaning man is consubstantial with matter - the world. Christ became man, took on our human nature, thus also was consubstantial with the world. Reconcile here means to make right. Death was overcome by life. I Cor 15:21-22 makes this very clear. There is nothing here about sins, surely not sins being forgiven, simply by His resurrection. No place will you find such a concept in Scripture.
The idea that our sins were not imputed to us means that if they were Christ would not have come. He overlooked our tresspasses, even while we were enemies, He died for us. Rom 5: 15-18.

See above. These are texts you isolate from the immediate context, as well as the context of scripture.

I see you cant understand the Truth.

 

[brightfame52]

They shall be also saved by His Life !2

However, this aspect of their reconciliation and forgiveness by the death of Christ, still leaves them in spiritual death, or dead in trespasses and sins as in Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

So by nature, even though those Christ died for are dead in sin, they still have been forgiven of all them, and reconciled to God, even while they are spiritually dead !

But here is where the Promise comes in, which states, those reconciled to God by Christ's death, while they are yet enemies, dead in sin, they shall be saved by/in His Life !

This means that they shall be saved out of that dead state of enmity and being enemies, by His Life, they shall be quickened by His resurrected Life ! Thats what Paul means here 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Thats right, in His Resurrection from the dead, He was made a life giving Spirit, to give life to those for whom He lived and died for. They already have total forgiveness of sins, but now they need Life out of the dead. Christ, their Adam rose from the dead and was seated on the Right Hand of God to give them Life, which is also His resurrection Life for them ! Same thing is implied here Rom 6:4-5

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

In order to conform us into the Likeness of His Resurrection [which was for us anyway if He died for us] then we must be given to partake of that resurrection life which He does for us as a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45, which in turn saves us out of our spiritual death and being His enemies Rom 5:10 ! So the reconciled in Rom 5:10, while being enemies, shall be saved from being enemies, by Christ's Life.

This must happen and is promised to happen to everyone Christ died for and reconciled !

So how could Christ had died for all without exception, when all without exception are not #1 Reconciled to God by His Death, and #2 Saved out of Spiritual death by His Life ? This saving is the same Paul speaks of also in Titus 3:5 by the renewing of the Spirit, which is the result of Christ being a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45 ! 11

 

[Rightglory]

They shall be also saved by His Life !2

However, this aspect of their reconciliation and forgiveness by the death of Christ, still leaves them in spiritual death, or dead in trespasses and sins as in Eph 2:1,5

How incongruous can you be. Does Calvin even say these nonsensical comments?
If Christ by His resurrection forgave sins, then why would your concept of a believer still be in trespasses and sins?

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Do you know what the word "quickened" means? Notice also that the verb is past tense - "saved". No person that ever lived has been saved, past tense in his life. That may fit predestination and perseverance of the saints concept but that is not scriptural and never has been. In this life a believer is being saved. It is a mutual loving relationship between Christ and a believer. Your inheritance awaits you IF you remain faithful. I Pet 3-5. You are living in hope in ;this life

So by nature, even though those Christ died for are dead in sin, they still have been forgiven of all them, and reconciled to God, even while they are spiritually dead !

Same incongruous statement you made above.

But here is where the Promise comes in, which states, those reconciled to God by Christ's death, while they are yet enemies, dead in sin, they shall be saved by/in His Life !

This means that they shall be saved out of that dead state of enmity and being enemies, by His Life, they shall be quickened by His resurrected Life ! Thats what Paul means here 1 Cor 15:45

I Cor 15:45 is merely stating that the first Adam became a living being so by His resurrection Christ became a life giving spirit. The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead, will also raise our bodies from the grave in the last day. How is that possible? Because of His Incarnation, our human nature was raised with Christ and thus we shall all be raised in the last day, immortal and incorruptible, I Cor 15:53-54.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Thats right, in His Resurrection from the dead, He was made a life giving Spirit, to give life to those for whom He lived and died for. They already have total forgiveness of sins, but now they need Life out of the dead. Christ, their Adam rose from the dead and was seated on the Right Hand of God to give them Life, which is also His resurrection Life for them ! Same thing is implied here Rom 6:4-5

You have everything backwards because you deny the actual Incarnation of Christ whereby His taking on our human nature raised them to life, That is a physical existence. Christ took that human nature to heaven with HIm, and will come again, the same way He ascended into heaven. None of these verses speaks about forgiveness of sins. You are injecting this erroneous concept which makes no sense scripturally.

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

In order to conform us into the Likeness of His Resurrection [which was for us anyway if He died for us] then we must be given to partake of that resurrection life which He does for us as a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45, which in turn saves us out of our spiritual death and being His enemies Rom 5:10 ! So the reconciled in Rom 5:10, while being enemies, shall be saved from being enemies, by Christ's Life.

This must happen and is promised to happen to everyone Christ died for and reconciled !

So now, scripturally, you have become a universalist. Not only did Christ die for all men and will raise all men, you have Christ also saving all those men, since all have been forgiven of their sins and all will be saved by His life.
Scripture is quite clear that those that will be saved by His life is a personal choice that all men will make. They will either serve God, or they will serve Satan. God does not choose who will be saved by His life.
If Calvin actually taught this stuff, you have a very confusing theology. Most, if not all, is quite contrary to scripture.

So how could Christ had died for all without exception, when all without exception are not #1 Reconciled to God by His Death, and #2 Saved out of Spiritual death by His Life ? This saving is the same Paul speaks of also in Titus 3:5 by the renewing of the Spirit, which is the result of Christ being a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45 ! 11

The answer is quite simple actually. Christ died for all without exception because all human beings have the same human nature. When Christ assumed our human nature, died and was resurrected with that same human nature, every human being will be be raised in the last day. Your # 1 is a scriptural fallacy, All were saved from death and sin so that each human being could be saved by His life. After all, God desires all men to come to know Him. The Holy Sp;irit is calling all men to repentance. That regeneration as Titus 3:5 takes place when men believe, confess their sins, then are baptized. It is called regenerative baptism. It places one into the Kingdom of God.
You should do a study of the meaning of the Incarnation. A good little book on the subject is Athanasius' "On the Incarnation". Calvin's theology actually denies the Incarnation. I Cor 15:13. You believe in a Christ that cannot save vs14.

 

[brightfame52]

Who is this World in 2 Cor 5:19 ?

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Is this world everyone without exception ? By no means, in fact the verse tells us who are comprised of this World.

Its everyone that has been reconciled to God, that God has reconciled to Himself ! Now does that apply to every human being without exception ? No it does not !

Secondly, its everyone that has not and God will not impute their sins unto them !

In other words, its a world of blessed men and women who David calls blessed here Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man/world unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

And Paul quotes the same in Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Its a world full of men and women whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered !

Its a world full of folk that God will not impute sin, lay it to their charge ! And please note it says He will not do it, ever, not now, not in the future !

John Gill comments on Rom 4:8

Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. As he does not to those whom he justifies in Christ, and by his righteousness; for the sins of such he has imputed to his Son, as their surety; and he has bore them, took them away, having made full satisfaction for them; so that these persons will never be charged with them: they now appear before the throne without fault, and are blameless and irreproveable in the sight of God, and therefore must be eternally happy; for he will never think of their sins any more to their hurt; he will remember them no more; he "will never reckon them to them", but acquit them from them, justify and accept them; wherefore they must be secure from wrath and condemnation, enjoy much peace and comfort now, and be happy hereafter.

Thats who the World is in 2 Cor 5:19, those who are #1 Reconciled to God, #2 Have no sins charged to them !

Is that all without exception ? Jesus shall say to many who evidently have iniquity laid to their charge this Matt 7:23

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now how could they possibly be of those which it is said Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. See Rom 4:7-8

which are those in 2 Cor 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 11

 

[Rightglory]

I see you cant understand the Truth.

I understand the Truth. I even understand the truth you are purveying but you have very little understanding of what scripture means. Give me some evidence that what you believe was actually believed from the beginning. I'm not sure you even have an understanding of Calvinism as He portrayed it, but probably mostly of your own opinion.

 

[Rightglory]

Who is this World in 2 Cor 5:19 ?

2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Is this world everyone without exception ? By no means, in fact the verse tells us who are comprised of this World.

Its everyone that has been reconciled to God, that God has reconciled to Himself ! Now does that apply to every human being without exception ? No it does not !

I want to know how you can get the word believer out of the word, WORLD. My dictionary, does not give a definition of believer for the word world. So I checked a Biblical dictionary. They don't either. So, where do you get your definition of world from?
Col 1:20 is even more particular, It mentions all the fullness should dwell, and BY HIM TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS TO HIMSELF BY HIM, whether things on earth,m or thintgs in heaven,. No place is believers mentioned or infered.
Eph 2:14f, Eph 1:10, Rom 3:24, say the same thing.
Because you don't understand what Christ actually accomplished and why, your view directly denies the incarnation of Christ. You are denying one of the hallmarks of Christianity.

Secondly, its everyone that has not and God will not impute their sins unto them !

In other words, its a world of blessed men and women who David calls blessed here Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man/world unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

And Paul quotes the same in Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Its a world full of men and women whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered !

Its a world full of folk that God will not impute sin, lay it to their charge ! And please note it says He will not do it, ever, not now, not in the future !

John Gill comments on Rom 4:8

You should get away from Gill. He is as dilusional as Calvin. God does not impute sin to anyone. Our sin is all our own. Never has it been otherwise. Adam is responsible for his sin, all other men are responsible for their own sins.

Thats who the World is in 2 Cor 5:19, those who are #1 Reconciled to God, #2 Have no sins charged to them !

Unfortunately for your view, there is no sins charged or not charged to anyone. What it means that Christ did not impute suns upon us, that is mankind. Sins are not imputed to unbelievers either. All men are responsible for their own sins. They will be charged with them at the judgement.

Is that all without exception ? Jesus shall say to many who evidently have iniquity laid to their charge this Matt 7:23

totally different aspects of Christ's work. Being reconciled by Christ to God has nothing to do with the final judgement. Actually without Christ reconciling the world, there can be no final judgement. Christ overcame death that would have meant dust to dust, permanent.y. There would be no need for either heaven or hell. That is how far off you are in your understanding of the fall of man and Christ correction of that fall.

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now how could they possibly be of those which it is said Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. See Rom 4:7-8

which are those in 2 Cor 5:19

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 11

The above has nothing to do with II Cor 5:19.

 

[brightfame52]

I understand the Truth. I even understand the truth you are purveying but you have very little understanding of what scripture means. Give me some evidence that what you believe was actually believed from the beginning. I'm not sure you even have an understanding of Calvinism as He portrayed it, but probably mostly of your own opinion.

No you dont understand truth

 

[brightfame52]

I want to know how you can get the word believer out of the word, WORLD. My dictionary, does not give a definition of believer for the word world. So I checked a Biblical dictionary. They don't either. So, where do you get your definition of world from?
Col 1:20 is even more particular, It mentions all the fullness should dwell, and BY HIM TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS TO HIMSELF BY HIM, whether things on earth,m or thintgs in heaven,. No place is believers mentioned or infered.
Eph 2:14f, Eph 1:10, Rom 3:24, say the same thing.
Because you don't understand what Christ actually accomplished and why, your view directly denies the incarnation of Christ. You are denying one of the hallmarks of Christianity.

You should get away from Gill. He is as dilusional as Calvin. God does not impute sin to anyone. Our sin is all our own. Never has it been otherwise. Adam is responsible for his sin, all other men are responsible for their own sins.

Unfortunately for your view, there is no sins charged or not charged to anyone. What it means that Christ did not impute suns upon us, that is mankind. Sins are not imputed to unbelievers either. All men are responsible for their own sins. They will be charged with them at the judgement.

totally different aspects of Christ's work. Being reconciled by Christ to God has nothing to do with the final judgement. Actually without Christ reconciling the world, there can be no final judgement. Christ overcame death that would have meant dust to dust, permanent.y. There would be no need for either heaven or hell. That is how far off you are in your understanding of the fall of man and Christ correction of that fall.


The above has nothing to do with II Cor 5:19.

You prove again, you dont understand truth

 

[Rightglory]

No you dont understand truth

Where is your evidence. You claim Calvin and Gill are your masters. It is called Calvinism for a reason. If it was the Truth it would not claim to be Calvinism.

 

[Rightglory]

You prove again, you dont understand truth

then show me based on what I have stated. I have asked you several questions, but you have not answered. Is it because you don't understand your own view. You might be espousing someone else's view, not knowing what their view actually means.
Go back to my last several posts and find the questions and answer them.

 

[brightfame52]

Who is this World in 2 Cor 5:19 ? 2

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 cannot be inclusive of any individual who is not reconciled to God, or who is unreconciled !

Therefore the message in Vs 20 2 Cor 5:19-20

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

This message or command cannot be to the unreconciled, that would contradict Vs 19, that they were already reconciled to God also Vs 18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

So the Gospel command in Vs 20 " be ye reconciled to God" is not to anyone who is not already reconciled to God, the unreconciled !

Then why does Paul tell reconciled folk to be ye reconciled ? Its because, the word of Truth begets Faith in them, its a call to Faith, for Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing the word of God Rom 10:17 !

The Truth is that they already are reconciled to God by and through Christ, and when they[spiritually] hear that Truth by the power of the Holy Spirit, they are commanded to believe it, they are commanded to believe what is already True ! There believing it doesn't make it true, it was true before they believed, and when they were enemies Rom 5:10 ! There believing it was Gods way of giving them personal knowledge of it and assurance of it ! 11

 

[brightfame52]

Where is your evidence. You claim Calvin and Gill are your masters. It is called Calvinism for a reason. If it was the Truth it would not claim to be Calvinism.

You rebel against it, every post I write is my evidence from the scripture. Not my problem you cant see the evidence. I can give you my evidence, but cant give you Spiritual eyes to see it.