The Gospel of Reconciliation

[Rightglory]

Who is this World in 2 Cor 5:19 ? 2

The world in 2 Cor 5:19 cannot be inclusive of any individual who is not reconciled to God, or who is unreconciled !

Therefore the message in Vs 20 2 Cor 5:19-20

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

This message or command cannot be to the unreconciled, that would contradict Vs 19, that they were already reconciled to God also Vs 18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

So the Gospel command in Vs 20 " be ye reconciled to God" is not to anyone who is not already reconciled to God, the unreconciled !

Even if your interpretation of scripture was correct that the word WORLD, means believers, it would not make sense either. You triple down on your nonsensical explanation. If God in fact reconciled those you believe were predestinated to believe, what is the purpose of the reconciliation? Those so-called elect have been reconciled by God from the moment they are born. This is why predestination, which is not the subject here, makes no sense in scripture. Then you take the latter part of the verse and say that God then commands the same people to be reconciled to God. Why the double reconciliation, did Christ fail to reconcile them to God. Or Christ did not actually reconcile anyone. Then you overlook the meaning of your own interpretation that these people were commanded to be reconciled to God. I thought you believed in predestination. You don't believe that man has a free will. So how do these people do what you want them to do?

Then why does Paul tell reconciled folk to be ye reconciled ? Its because, the word of Truth begets Faith in them, its a call to Faith, for Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing the word of God Rom 10:17 !

The Truth is that they already are reconciled to God by and through Christ, and when they[spiritually] hear that Truth by the power of the Holy Spirit, they are commanded to believe it, they are commanded to believe what is already True ! There believing it doesn't make it true, it was true before they believed, and when they were enemies Rom 5:10 ! There believing it was Gods way of giving them personal knowledge of it and assurance of it ! 11

More double speak nonsense. You cannot even follow your own theology within the 5 points of Calvinism wrapped in the blanket of predestination. You want man to be predestined, but then still have a free will so you can make it fit in scripture by saying that they are commanded to believe what is already true. Pure nonsense.
Now what do you do with Col 1:19-20. What word or phrase means believers only, that were reconciled? Unfortunately for you, the word WORLD is not used here.
What about the others I cited that say the same thing as II Cor 5:19-20? Eph 2:14f, Eph 1:10, Rom 3:24,

 

[brightfame52]

Even if your interpretation of scripture was correct that the word WORLD, means believers, it would not make sense either. You triple down on your nonsensical explanation. If God in fact reconciled those you believe were predestinated to believe, what is the purpose of the reconciliation? Those so-called elect have been reconciled by God from the moment they are born. This is why predestination, which is not the subject here, makes no sense in scripture. Then you take the latter part of the verse and say that God then commands the same people to be reconciled to God. Why the double reconciliation, did Christ fail to reconcile them to God. Or Christ did not actually reconcile anyone. Then you overlook the meaning of your own interpretation that these people were commanded to be reconciled to God. I thought you believed in predestination. You don't believe that man has a free will. So how do these people do what you want them to do?

More double speak nonsense. You cannot even follow your own theology within the 5 points of Calvinism wrapped in the blanket of predestination. You want man to be predestined, but then still have a free will so you can make it fit in scripture by saying that they are commanded to believe what is already true. Pure nonsense.
Now what do you do with Col 1:19-20. What word or phrase means believers only, that were reconciled? Unfortunately for you, the word WORLD is not used here.
What about the others I cited that say the same thing as II Cor 5:19-20? Eph 2:14f, Eph 1:10, Rom 3:24,

You still cant receive the Truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciled/Justified before God while being enemies !

Rom 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now here's Grace, Being Reconciled to God, Justified before God, by the Death of His Son, while being enemies, that's the purport of these verses, meaning while those Jesus Christ died for were in a active state of rebellion, enmity, fighting and resisting God, they were completely Righteous before Him, and on their way to Eternal Glory ! For example, to further Illustrate what i mean, remember Paul the Apostle, when he was saul the persecutor of the Church / Believers in Christ, as here Acts 9:1

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Yes, while he was actively breathing out threatening and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, he was nevertheless reconciled to God, Justified and Righteous before Him, and on his way to Eternal Glory, even at that very moment ! He did not need to repent, believe, pray, or be water baptized or any of that, it was already a fact as much as Christ his Surety and forerunner was already in Glory in his behalf, and that's a fact, and the reason for that is simply the death of Christ, Gods Son for him, that's it ! And so it is with all for whom Christ died ! 11

 

[Rightglory]

Reconciled/Justified before God while being enemies !

Rom 5:9-10

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now here's Grace, Being Reconciled to God, Justified before God, by the Death of His Son, while being enemies, that's the purport of these verses, meaning while those Jesus Christ died for were in a active state of rebellion, enmity, fighting and resisting God, they were completely Righteous before Him, and on their way to Eternal Glory ! For example, to further Illustrate what i mean, remember Paul the Apostle, when he was saul the persecutor of the Church / Believers in Christ, as here Acts 9:1

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

Yes, while he was actively breathing out threatening and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, he was nevertheless reconciled to God, Justified and Righteous before Him, and on his way to Eternal Glory, even at that very moment ! He did not need to repent, believe, pray, or be water baptized or any of that, it was already a fact as much as Christ his Surety and forerunner was already in Glory in his behalf, and that's a fact, and the reason for that is simply the death of Christ, Gods Son for him, that's it ! And so it is with all for whom Christ died ! 11

Christ died for the world. Until you can show that Christ did not die, reconcile, justify all things, made all things right, you are teaching a falsehood.
It might be helpful if you actually define how you understand the Incarnation. How does it fit within your theological view?
You need to make it fit such texts that I have already cited, II Cor 5:18-19; Col 1:20; Heb 2:9, 14-15, II Tim 1:10; I Cor 15:21-22, 53-54; Rom 5:12, 18; others John 12:32; 6:39.
Verses that corroborate the universality of Christ death and resurrection through His Incarnation: Acts 24:15, 23:6; I John 4:14; John 4:42, 5:28-29; Eph 1:10; I Tim 4:10, Luke 2:30-32; Rev 20:12-13.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for the world. Until you can show that Christ did not die, reconcile, justify all things, made all things right, you are teaching a falsehood.
It might be helpful if you actually define how you understand the Incarnation. How does it fit within your theological view?
You need to make it fit such texts that I have already cited, II Cor 5:18-19; Col 1:20; Heb 2:9, 14-15, II Tim 1:10; I Cor 15:21-22, 53-54; Rom 5:12, 18; others John 12:32; 6:39.
Verses that corroborate the universality of Christ death and resurrection through His Incarnation: Acts 24:15, 23:6; I John 4:14; John 4:42, 5:28-29; Eph 1:10; I Tim 4:10, Luke 2:30-32; Rev 20:12-13.

You still in mass confusion friend, I cant help you

 

[Rightglory]

You still in mass confusion friend, I cant help you

So, you are either ignorant or have no ability to actually put forth a cogent discusssion. You apparently have not idea what the Incarnation means. Actually, you never stated that you even believe Christ was Incarnated. Now, you cannot even show how it might fit within your own theological view.
You also failed to show how you interpret the texts I cited. Why is that?
What do you believe is the primary purpose of Christ entering this world?

 

[brightfame52]

So, you are either ignorant or have no ability to actually put forth a cogent discusssion. You apparently have not idea what the Incarnation means. Actually, you never stated that you even believe Christ was Incarnated. Now, you cannot even show how it might fit within your own theological view.
You also failed to show how you interpret the texts I cited. Why is that?
What do you believe is the primary purpose of Christ entering this world?

Like I said, you at Gods mercy friend

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciled while being enemies !

False religionists, who reject Salvation by Grace, do also reject the Truth of God's Grace, that those Christ has died for, had been reconciled to God, by that Death, while they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This reconciliation to God was without them meeting any conditions, not any requirements, in fact it occurred while they were in a state of hostility and hatred and enmity against God;

And it was while they were being so, that they were actually reconciled, that is brought into harmony and agreement with God, received into His Favor and Friendship ! Don't be deceived by false teachers, they were reconciled to God, not potentially reconciled to God, it was not just possibly and not actually, they were reconciled to God on the bases of the Death of Christ. If it was only made possible, Christ's Death fell far short of the Glory of God. They were all reconciled to God and put in harmony with Him, as they had been when they were in harmony with God in Adam before the fall !

The fleshly carnal mind ruled by pride cannot receive this Grace Truth, it rejects it every time !

 

[Rightglory]

Reconciled while being enemies !

False religionists, who reject Salvation by Grace, do also reject the Truth of God's Grace, that those Christ has died for, had been reconciled to God, by that Death, while they were enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This reconciliation to God was without them meeting any conditions, not any requirements, in fact it occurred while they were in a state of hostility and hatred and enmity against God;

And it was while they were being so, that they were actually reconciled, that is brought into harmony and agreement with God, received into His Favor and Friendship ! Don't be deceived by false teachers, they were reconciled to God, not potentially reconciled to God, it was not just possibly and not actually, they were reconciled to God on the bases of the Death of Christ. If it was only made possible, Christ's Death fell far short of the Glory of God. They were all reconciled to God and put in harmony with Him, as they had been when they were in harmony with God in Adam before the fall !

The fleshly carnal mind ruled by pride cannot receive this Grace Truth, it rejects it every time !

Do you actually know what that harmony might be?
Explain this harmony between Adam and Christ?

 

[brightfame52]

Do you actually know what that harmony might be?
Explain this harmony between Adam and Christ?

I have been explaining, you dont get it.

 

[Rightglory]

I have been explaining, you dont get it.

You have never used the word, Harmony, before. Scripture does not use it, so in your theology what does it actually mean?
I understand scripture, but I don't understand how you arrive at your explanations based on scripture. It seems you are actually unable to discuss any point of theology.
You put out a lot of abstract texts, unrelated to each other then give some explanation that you think links them together. You change the meaning of words to suit your view but when I point out the fallacy, you cannot defend what you wrote, nor show where I would be incorrect. In other words you cannot carry on a discussion.

 

[brightfame52]

You have never used the word, Harmony, before. Scripture does not use it, so in your theology what does it actually mean?
I understand scripture, but I don't understand how you arrive at your explanations based on scripture. It seems you are actually unable to discuss any point of theology.
You put out a lot of abstract texts, unrelated to each other then give some explanation that you think links them together. You change the meaning of words to suit your view but when I point out the fallacy, you cannot defend what you wrote, nor show where I would be incorrect. In other words you cannot carry on a discussion.

You cant see it

 

[Rightglory]

You cant see it

It appears I am the ONLY one that does see.
I will continue to point out the errors of your interpretation so others can see not only the contrast but the Truth of scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

It appears I am the ONLY one that does see.
I will continue to point out the errors of your interpretation so others can see not only the contrast but the Truth of scripture.

Im not able to make you see Truth, God has to grant you light friend, Im just a witness of the Truth

 

[Behold]

Im not able to make you see Truth, God has to grant you light friend, Im just a witness of the Truth

You're Calvin's disciple.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.

 

[Behold]

False religionists, who reject Salvation by Grace,

What real Christians reject is "forced Grace".
Christians reject "God forced me to believe"., "because i dont have any free will".
Christians reject...JOHN CALVINISM = ""God sent your mother and your grandmother to Hell, and chose them to burn in the lake of fire before they were born, BECAUSE = they were not allowed by God to choose Christ and be saved, .. but He chose you and your cousin to go to heaven.""
So, start with those, if you want to learn why the born again reject "crazy" = John Calvinism.

And then, read that John Calvin rejected : John 3:16.

Calvin, John....... is a CROSS DENYING HERETIC, who was DEMONIC and Theologically INSANE.

This is why his disciples come to forums and they sound like Robots.. One Track Mindless Robots.

This is because Calvinism rots your mind and replaces it with John Calvinism.

 

[brightfame52]

You're Calvin's disciple.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.

You scoffing the Gospel, nothing more nothing less

 

[brightfame52]

Reconciled while being enemies ! 2

As stated before, this is a Truth of the Gospel that proud religionist cannot and will not receive Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This Truth to them that perish is foolishness, but yet again, its the message of the Gospel of the Grace of God in Christ; yes that Believers, back before they became believers, when they were unconverted, unbelievers, in fact while even being active enemies, nevertheless they had been reconciled to God, how, by the Death of Gods Son for them.

The word enemies echthros means:

hated, hostile; subst: an enemy.

properly, an enemy; someone openly hostile (at enmity), animated by deep-seated hatred. 2190/exthros ("enemy"), implies irreconcilable hostility, proceeding out of a "personal" hatred bent on inflicting harm

Remember how the Apostle Paul acted towards the Church when he was unconverted and inflicting harm out of hatered for Christ and His followers as here Acts 9:1-2

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

Well, when believers had that same spirit and hostility towards God/Christ, they had been Reconciled to God.

The word enemies also indicate that even when believers were under the power and control of the devil, as stated here Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

While being adversaries to God, opponents of His, enemies in our minds towards Him by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

even then, by the Grace of God, they were reconciled to God, meaning they were in a Right and pleasing relationship with Him, in His Favor, at Peace and Harmony with them ! He raised up Christ from the dead after He had died for their sins as the God of Peace Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Yes, even while they were enemies, God was reconciled to them and at Peace with them, and they with Him, through Christ !

This the natural man, self righteous religionist cannot receive !11

 

[Rightglory]

Reconciled while being enemies ! 2

As stated before, this is a Truth of the Gospel that proud religionist cannot and will not receive Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This Truth to them that perish is foolishness, but yet again, its the message of the Gospel of the Grace of God in Christ; yes that Believers, back before they became believers, when they were unconverted, unbelievers, in fact while even being active enemies, nevertheless they had been reconciled to God, how, by the Death of Gods Son for them.

You keep using Rom 5:10 as an isolated texts, you grab it out of context to force your view upon it.
Go back to vs 6 where it states that Christ died for the UNGODLY. If your theory holds true then the ONLY people that were ungodly were those you call believers. All others o mankind were GODLY.
You are making a huge unscriptural assumption that just because the Bible was written for believers, that believers are the only ones being spoken about. Obviously, v6 is speaking of mankind, not believers.
Thus vs 10, which is in the same context, is also speaking of mankind, since all mankind are sinners. By virtue of the Incarnation it of necessity would mean all mankind, since Christ assumed the human nature of mankind, not believers, as if they have a different human nature.
Then Paul gives us a much clearer explanation of mankind's condition, which is universal. vs 12, because sin entered this world through Adam, one man, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men. This spells out the fall of man. Because of Adam's sin, the curse of death came upon mankind, Gen 3:19, dust to dust. In other words mankind, in his human nature became mortal. Still a universal event. Believers are not separated anywhere in this context.
Then we get to vs18 where we get the correction for the fall of man. Paul makes a comparison, through one man's sin, judgement came (death) to all men, even through one's Man's righteous act, (death and resurrection) the free gift came to all men resulting in Justification of life. Still universal.
Paul makes the very same comparison again in I Cor 15:21-22. The universality of the judgement of death through Adam, so is the gift of life given to all men through Christ.
In neither context does it ever separate or refer to believers in the particular.
This is a direct rebuttal to your view that Rom 5:10f is ONLY about believers. It is also a direct rebuttal of the false idea of a limited atonement. It is not just scripturally false, by by theology of the meaning of the Incarnation, an absolute impossibility.

 

[brightfame52]

You keep using Rom 5:10 as an isolated texts, you grab it out of context to force your view upon it.
Go back to vs 6 where it states that Christ died for the UNGODLY. If your theory holds true then the ONLY people that were ungodly were those you call believers. All others o mankind were GODLY.
You are making a huge unscriptural assumption that just because the Bible was written for believers, that believers are the only ones being spoken about. Obviously, v6 is speaking of mankind, not believers.
Thus vs 10, which is in the same context, is also speaking of mankind, since all mankind are sinners. By virtue of the Incarnation it of necessity would mean all mankind, since Christ assumed the human nature of mankind, not believers, as if they have a different human nature.
Then Paul gives us a much clearer explanation of mankind's condition, which is universal. vs 12, because sin entered this world through Adam, one man, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men. This spells out the fall of man. Because of Adam's sin, the curse of death came upon mankind, Gen 3:19, dust to dust. In other words mankind, in his human nature became mortal. Still a universal event. Believers are not separated anywhere in this context.
Then we get to vs18 where we get the correction for the fall of man. Paul makes a comparison, through one man's sin, judgement came (death) to all men, even through one's Man's righteous act, (death and resurrection) the free gift came to all men resulting in Justification of life. Still universal.
Paul makes the very same comparison again in I Cor 15:21-22. The universality of the judgement of death through Adam, so is the gift of life given to all men through Christ.
In neither context does it ever separate or refer to believers in the particular.
This is a direct rebuttal to your view that Rom 5:10f is ONLY about believers. It is also a direct rebuttal of the false idea of a limited atonement. It is not just scripturally false, by by theology of the meaning of the Incarnation, an absolute impossibility.

You still dont get it