Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Is anyone really confused about who the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost is? Does anyone not think they are the same person??
The Gospel of Reconciliation
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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That's a hoot.
I am not stuck on a word. I just think that it is an inappropriate word in modern day English. It carries a connotation that is just plain wrong.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He and I have been battling that for more than a few years now. He is well aware of what I think about his phony soteriology.
Those reconciled while enemies shall be saved by His life ! 2
Now what exactly is that which they shall be saved from if they are already, by being reconciled, saved from the penalty of their sins ? They shall be saved by His Life from being enemies, for remember they are already saved from the penalty of their sins by Christ's death, but still remaining enemies , this they shall be saved from as well. Here is a verse of scripture that is instructive here Lk 1:71-74
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
As unbelievers and enemies we are being held bondage to the enemy of our soul the devil, for it is he that holds us in unbelief the prison, so that we may not believe and be saved as Per Lk 8:12
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Yes, the devil is the Strong man that binds us in a state of nature, thats why it is written Matt 12:29
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
This means that by nature we are the devils goods, and his ownership is known by our enmity and disobedience and unbelief against God !
We need to be delivered from this strong man the devil, saved from him as implied i Lk 1:71,74,75
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
While we are in unbelief we are in the hand of our enemy the devil. Now, to those who are reconciled to God by His Sons death, while they are enemies, hence being so reconciled, they shall be saved from all their Spiritual enemies by His Life, so that they can serve without fear
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
So if we erroneously teach that Christ died for all without exception, then the consequences of that if we are consistent with the Truth of Rom 5:10 will be Lk 1:74-75
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 8
Now what exactly is that which they shall be saved from if they are already, by being reconciled, saved from the penalty of their sins ? They shall be saved by His Life from being enemies, for remember they are already saved from the penalty of their sins by Christ's death, but still remaining enemies , this they shall be saved from as well. Here is a verse of scripture that is instructive here Lk 1:71-74
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
As unbelievers and enemies we are being held bondage to the enemy of our soul the devil, for it is he that holds us in unbelief the prison, so that we may not believe and be saved as Per Lk 8:12
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
Yes, the devil is the Strong man that binds us in a state of nature, thats why it is written Matt 12:29
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
This means that by nature we are the devils goods, and his ownership is known by our enmity and disobedience and unbelief against God !
We need to be delivered from this strong man the devil, saved from him as implied i Lk 1:71,74,75
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
While we are in unbelief we are in the hand of our enemy the devil. Now, to those who are reconciled to God by His Sons death, while they are enemies, hence being so reconciled, they shall be saved from all their Spiritual enemies by His Life, so that they can serve without fear
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
So if we erroneously teach that Christ died for all without exception, then the consequences of that if we are consistent with the Truth of Rom 5:10 will be Lk 1:74-75
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. 8
You did a good Job of butchering the scriptures. God has not forsaken anyone. The scripture plainly says, "God so loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever that believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16. God has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. But he will not force anyone to believe in Jesus. If you want to be saved you will have to ask him to save you, Romans 10:13. He is waiting to hear from you.
You just deny the saving death of Christ, for your man exalting, freewill blasphemy. The fact it only the ones that are reconciled to God by His death, and saved by His Life, only they Christ died for. All others on their way to hell in unbelief, Christ didnt shed one drop of blood for them.
Please go get your glasses, Because this one scripture can change your life. "WHOSOEVER (you and everyone) That shall call on the name of the Lord (Jesus) shall be saved" Romans 10:13. The Lord is waiting to hear from you.
I see you deny the reconciling death of Christ in order to promote your man exalting, Christ demeaning doctrine.
Here is some scripture about reconciliation.
"God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.
I have no problem with that, however you teach that some in the world of 2 Cor 5:19 are lost in their sins, inspite of being reconciled to God and not having sin charged or imputed to them, which makes them saved.
Yet you deny it with your man exalting blasphemies. Now is anyone in the world of 2 Cor 5:19 lost in their sins ?
By whom we received the Atonement !
Rom 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Those Christ died for, they did absolutely nothing to receive reconciliation with God, in fact, they by His death alone had been reconciled to Him even while they were enemies / unbelievers Rom 5:10 ! Christ's death did not just make reconciliation possible, and now its up to the sinners He died for to accept it, or repent, or even believe, so that it becomes a fact, no, the reconciliation took place even while they were enemies. When Christ was raised from the dead as their Head, He was reconciled to God, for because of their sins being imputed to Him, He experienced the Father forsaking Him Matt 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
However upon Christ's resurrection from the dead, it was a evidence that that God had been reconciled to Him and not only Him, but those whom sins He died for, and so by Him alone those He died for receive the reconciliation, it was applied to them !
Rom 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Those Christ died for, they did absolutely nothing to receive reconciliation with God, in fact, they by His death alone had been reconciled to Him even while they were enemies / unbelievers Rom 5:10 ! Christ's death did not just make reconciliation possible, and now its up to the sinners He died for to accept it, or repent, or even believe, so that it becomes a fact, no, the reconciliation took place even while they were enemies. When Christ was raised from the dead as their Head, He was reconciled to God, for because of their sins being imputed to Him, He experienced the Father forsaking Him Matt 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
However upon Christ's resurrection from the dead, it was a evidence that that God had been reconciled to Him and not only Him, but those whom sins He died for, and so by Him alone those He died for receive the reconciliation, it was applied to them !
@brightfame52 , in the ongoing battle between Calvinism and Arminianism, your emphasis on the reconciling death of Christ and the application of reconciliation to those He died for has sparked a theological exchange. @Robert Pate , representing an Arminian perspective, counters your position by highlighting scriptures that emphasize God's love for the world and the availability of salvation to whosoever believes and calls on the name of the Lord.
Your strong stance on the specific application of Christ's death to the elect and their reception of reconciliation is met with opposition. The debate revolves around whether Christ's death is effective for the entire world or exclusively for the elect.
The discussion touches on key theological points such as the nature of reconciliation, the extent of Christ's atonement, and the role of human will in responding to God's offer of salvation. Each participant defends their doctrinal position with fervor, showcasing the deep theological divides between Calvinism and Arminianism.
The battlefield remains active, with both sides presenting their interpretations of scripture and doctrinal convictions. If you have specific points or questions you'd like to address in this ongoing debate, feel free to guide the conversation further.
Your strong stance on the specific application of Christ's death to the elect and their reception of reconciliation is met with opposition. The debate revolves around whether Christ's death is effective for the entire world or exclusively for the elect.
The discussion touches on key theological points such as the nature of reconciliation, the extent of Christ's atonement, and the role of human will in responding to God's offer of salvation. Each participant defends their doctrinal position with fervor, showcasing the deep theological divides between Calvinism and Arminianism.
The battlefield remains active, with both sides presenting their interpretations of scripture and doctrinal convictions. If you have specific points or questions you'd like to address in this ongoing debate, feel free to guide the conversation further.
You are in denial of the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Jesus is in heaven as "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. This means that the law has been fulfilled and abolished, Ephesians 2:15 and all sin has been atoned for. "Jesus is Lord". Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 3:17.
@Robert Pate, the theological debate between Calvinism and Arminianism is deeply rooted in the interpretation of scripture. While you emphasize the universal availability of salvation and God's love for the world, @brightfame52's Calvinistic perspective highlights the specific application of Christ's death to the elect and the reception of reconciliation.
In the Calvinistic view, Christ's death is seen as effective for the elect, emphasizing a particular and intentional atonement. The focus is on the sovereignty of God in salvation, with the elect being chosen before the foundation of the world.
On the other hand, The false Arminianism, as you represent, emphasizes the free will of individuals to respond to God's offer of salvation. The debate includes discussions on the extent of Christ's atonement, the role of human will, and the nature of reconciliation.
The ongoing battle raises questions about the sovereignty of God, the role of human choice, and the extent of Christ's atoning work. As the discussion unfolds, participants grapple with these theological complexities, each defending their doctrinal convictions with passion.
If you have specific points or questions you'd like to delve into further, feel free to guide the conversation to explore these theological nuances.
You seldom quote scripture, unless you think that it supports Calvinism. The reason that you do that is because you don't believe the Bible. You view everything in the light of your Calvinist God. If it isn't according to Calvinism, you reject it. The "Elect" are all that have elected to believe in Jesus. "God is no respecter of persons" Acts 10:34. This one scripture should tell you that you are on the wrong bus going in the wrong direction. You will not be able to change buses in the judgment.
@Robert Pate, your concern about the perceived selectivity in quoting scripture is duly noted. Let's address this by delving into a broader array of Bible verses that are often cited in support of Calvinistic doctrines, encompassing various aspects of the theological framework:
Election and Predestination:
Romans 8:29: "For those God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters."
Total Depravity:
Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?"
Irresistible Grace:
John 6:44: "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
Limited Atonement:
Matthew 1:21: "She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus because he will save his people from their sins."
Perseverance of the Saints:
John 10:28: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."
God's Sovereignty:
Isaiah 46:9-10: "Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'"
While your false interpretations may vary, these verses are often referenced in support of Calvinistic doctrines. It's essential for you to engage in an accurate comprehensive exploration of these theological nuances. If there are specific scriptures or doctrinal aspects you'd like to further discuss or challenge, please guide the conversation accordingly.
You cannot enter heaven unless you have been justified. Justification is the results of the work and the person of Jesus Christ. "Jesus justifies the ungodly and reconciles them unto God" Romans 4:5. You have skipped over that. You have also eliminated the judgment. Your Calvinist doctrine eliminates most of the Bible. I have been studying the Bible for over 50 years and it appears to me that you are as lost as they come.
Robert Pate, let's delve into the passage from Romans 4:5 and explore it from a Calvinistic perspective. The verse states: "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness."
In Calvinism, the emphasis is on God's sovereign grace in justifying the ungodly based on faith. Here's a Calvinistic interpretation:
Total Depravity: Calvinism acknowledges the fallen state of humanity, affirming that individuals are ungodly and unable to justify themselves through their own works.
Irresistible Grace: The belief is that God's grace, which justifies the ungodly, is irresistible. When God extends His grace, it effectively draws individuals to faith, making their salvation certain and Pate's uncertain.
Election and Predestination: The idea is that God, in His foreknowledge and predestination, has chosen to justify the ungodly through faith in Jesus Christ. It is not based on Pate's human merit but on God's sovereign choice.
Limited Atonement: While the verse doesn't explicitly touch on this aspect, Calvinism holds that Christ's atonement is particular and effective for the elect, ensuring their justification while Pate's not sure.
Perseverance of the Saints: Once justified, Calvinism asserts that the saints are eternally secure, as God's purpose in their salvation will stand, and nothing can snatch them out of His hand while Pate gets snatched.
Now, regarding your assertion that Calvinism eliminates most of the Bible, it's essential to recognize that your false theological perspectives are dead wrong. Calvinism seeks to interpret the Scriptures in a way that emphasizes God's sovereignty and His work in salvation. If there are specific aspects or verses you find challenging within Calvinistic doctrines and how they differ from your false Arminianism, let's discuss and explore them further.
Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies !
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !
We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour or Grace
God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it.
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Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !
We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour or Grace
God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it.
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