The Galilean wedding is the model for the pre-trib rapture

[Randy Kluth]

I did not. I understand it. He said I was wrong about the context and meaning. I said how so? Did I get an answer? No, he wont answer that. So I got a little sarcastic with him.

If a guy has something in what he says and you guys want to bring it to his attention, you can say, brother you've made a mistake, let me tell you what the mistake was and what it really means. Anything wrong with that? You postribbers cant get on here and say, oh you made a mistake so that's proof that we are right. That's bunk! And a lie.

I'm not part of a group of Postribbers. I agree with others here, but not necessarily with their methods or language. If any of us are too rude, we should apologize. I apologize if I've been rude.

But I'm not responsible for what other Postribbers do or say. I'm not in their group, and not even in their school of eschatology. Some of them are Amills, and I'm Premill, and we've had some pretty harsh disagreements on the subject.

But I'm happy to be allied with them on the subject of Postrib because I believe in it so strongly, and always wish to be in unity with my brothers in the faith.

 

[Randy Kluth]

A rapture during the tribulation
Rev14:14.
1 thes 4 has the dead rising first.
That means tge dead rise pretrib, because they are first. Main harvest is alongside the dead rising first. No sickle, no horses.

It is you that can not show us a single verse of a postrib rapture!
how ironic that you guys are " verseless"

How dishonest you are! I've cited Dan 7 as the original source of Postrib. I've cited the Olivet Discourse as Jesus' statement that he will *only* come when he comes from heaven. I've cited 2 Thes 2 where Paul doctrinally demands acceptance that Christ will only come when he comes to destroy Antichrist "with the breath of his mouth." I've cited Revelation as showing the dead are raised in the 1st resurrection, after Christians have been martyred by Antichrist.

I can't argue with a dishonest person. You can say anything you like, but it won't prove anything to you, because you don't care about what's true. You only care about "being right."

 

[The Light]

I'm not a Catholic basher either--sorry if I misunderstood. There are still good Catholics around, though I do believe that Catholic tradition hurts Christians. Catholics, in my understanding, teach both the word of God and Catholic tradition. I don't know any Catholic who is totally ignorant of God's word. They tend to be moral, spiritual people, even among those who are ignorant.

From what I've seen in life, there are many awesome Catholics that love God very much. They think they are in the right place, but they are not as without the Word of God there can be limited spiritual growth. But their love of God and their faith can be strong. Not all of them of course.

I'm glad you believe the Bible. We're not trying to join a group or a school. We're just trying to be honest with God and with ourselves, right?

I've experienced many things in my life. I have seen the impossible many times. I can tell you all about "coincidence". The Bible is an instruction manual on how to live, how to overcome, how to believe etc. It tells us the future and gives us instruction. It's an amazing book from God.

But thanks for the conversation. We have the same Spirit, the same righteousness, the same Christ, the same God. And we do share the same Scriptures--we just have to work at it!

Amen brother. May you be richly blessed and may your knowledge and wisdom greatly increase.

 

[The Light]

This would take some time, and I've already spent hours writing about this today. The timing of Revelation is simple. John's time and the 7 churches. Then a future in which Christ is coming to judge the whole world. The final scenario is a 3.5 year reign of Antichrist, followed by a march, a deployment, to Armageddon. Only believers will recognize it, but won't know the exact day of the bloodbath. There are some flashbacks, such as in Rev 12, and there is the common use of OT imagery, now expressing Christian truths. You have to know the Bible very well.

The book of Revelation is not an itinerary. It is a series of visions calling for us to be aware and be ready. Deceptions are all around us, but righteousness is right in front of us. Let's walk in it!

Ok Brother. I understand.

Take some time and try reading Revelation like this.
No seals have been opened and the tribulation of those days has not begun.
The seals are opened in order 1-7.

Revelation 6 is the 1st 6 seals.
The first 6 seals line up perfectly with Matthew 24.
The first 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows of Matthew 24.
The 5th seal is the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24.
The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. He comes immediately after the tribulation of those days and before the wrath of God.

Revelation 7 is the sealing of the 144,000, meaning they become believers. It is also the result of the gathering from heaven and earth.
We see the great multitude and part of them came out of Great Tribulation.
Most people think that the 144,000 are sealed to go through the wrath of God. But they don't go through the wrath of God. We can prove that by Revelation 14

Revelation 8 is the opening of the 7th seal which is the trumpets of wrath. All believers are off the earth and in heaven before the 7th seal is opened. This includes the Church and the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. The only ones on earth when the 7th seal is opened is unbelievers who are getting ready to go through the wrath of God and those in the nation of Israel that fled to a place of protection. They were not raptured as they were not believers. But God will save this remnant.

Revelation 9, 10 and 11 continue the wrath of God. Armageddon happen at the end of the trumpet. Christ sets His feet on the Mount of Olives which is the second advent and then sets up His kingdom. Nations are judged, rewards are given. THAT'S THE END OF THE STORY. The 1000 years begins.

THAT'S IT. THE END.

Revelation 12 covers a long time frame. Won't talk about it at this time.

You want to read the story again with different information?

Revelation 13 occur in seals 1-4
Revelation 14 verses 1-11 occurs in seals 1-4

Revelation 14:12-13 is the 5th seal. This is the great tribulation which is the 5th seal. This is where we know that the 144,000 that are sealed in Revelation 7 have to be sealed before the 5th seal. They do not go through the wrath of God.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Revelation 14:14-16 is the second coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.


Revelation 14:17-19 is the unrighteous being cast into the wrath of God.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Revelation 15 and 16 is different information that happens in the 7th seal. The end

Revelation reads like Genesis 7. Noah is seen loading the ark several times and the flood comes on the earth several times. But Noah only loads them once and there is one flood.

Conclusion:
Revelation 6, 8,9,10,11 are read in order. Rev 7 is different, shown above.
Revelation 13, 14,15,16 are also read in order and are a different view of Rev 6, 8,9,10,11.

 

[covenantee]

All scripture must agree with all other scriptures. Jesus also promised this:

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him..../KJV

Revelation 3:10
10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world. ../NLT

So what do I do with these scriptures? Tear those pages out of my Bible?

If the church goes through the great trib, what wrath will we be saved from?

Why are you equating the tribulation which Scripture tells us is experienced by believers, with the wrath which Scripture tells us is experienced by unbelievers?

They're not the same.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The seals are opened in order 1-7.

Of course the seals are opened in order. Each seal represents another message, but not necessarily a chronological progression.

Revelation 6 is the 1st 6 seals.
The first 6 seals line up perfectly with Matthew 24.
The first 4 seals are the beginning of sorrows of Matthew 24.

I do find it coincidental that the 1st 4 seals appear to run parallel with Matt 24. But they certainly are not exact, and the one does not reference the other. Zero dogma involved. We cannot draw inferences where no inferences are being explicitly made.

All I can say is that the world is experiencing a heavenly onslaught, the horsemen representing angelic forces that judge the world for its sins.

The 5th seal is the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24.

There is no basis for drawing such a conclusion. As I've proven many times now, Jesus identified the Great Tribulation as the age-long punishment of the Jewish People, the Jewish Diaspora, which began in 70 AD.

A side effect of this Jewish Punishment was the unfortunate displacement of Jewish believers from their homes. They were not the targets of God's wrath, but Jesus said that believers would suffer in this sinful world, as well as suffer persecution for their faith. The persecution of the saints is indeed in the 5th Seal.

The 6th seal is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. He comes immediately after the tribulation of those days and before the wrath of God.

I would partly disagree. I define "wrath" differently than you do, apparently? God's wrath is constantly being poured out on sin, although with a measure of forbearance. But the wrath of Armageddon is poured out *at the same time* that Christ returns and delivers his Church. So this is not *before* God's wrath, but *during* the outpouring of God's wrath.

The ultimate wrath of God all Christians are delivered from is the wrath of eternal damnation. When Christ comes to bring eternal judgment, all Christians are delivered from that. Whether we live or die, we are spared from this particular "wrath of God!"

Revelation 7 is the sealing of the 144,000, meaning they become believers.

Again, this is not stated--you are assuming this. The sealing of the 144,000 Israelis is for the purpose of protecting Israel from extermination, from genocide.

In fact, the 12 Tribes had to have been sealed well before the book of Revelation had even been given. And that's because there were no longer any tribal divisions after they had become united in a monarchy, in a single Kingdom.

It is also the result of the gathering from heaven and earth.
We see the great multitude and part of them came out of Great Tribulation.
Most people think that the 144,000 are sealed to go through the wrath of God. But they don't go through the wrath of God. We can prove that by Revelation 14

Rev 14 proves only that the 144,000 are saved with Christ. It has nothing to do with going through a period of God's wrath or not. The period of wrath endtimes believers go through is not God targeting them, but rather, God targeting the wicked.

Revelation 8 is the opening of the 7th seal which is the trumpets of wrath. All believers are off the earth and in heaven before the 7th seal is opened. This includes the Church and the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. The only ones on earth when the 7th seal is opened is unbelievers who are getting ready to go through the wrath of God and those in the nation of Israel that fled to a place of protection. They were not raptured as they were not believers. But God will save this remnant.

How ludicrous! There are all kinds of believers mentioned in this period of God's wrath directed against unbelievers. You are creating a chronological timeline with each passing vision when it is not even indicated to be such. You are superimposing a sequence that is not specifically given--that is adding to the word of God!

Revelation 9, 10 and 11 continue the wrath of God. Armageddon happen at the end of the trumpet. Christ sets His feet on the Mount of Olives which is the second advent and then sets up His kingdom. Nations are judged, rewards are given. THAT'S THE END OF THE STORY. The 1000 years begins.

I agree that at the last trumpet, the 7th trumpet, we are at the end of the age, when Christ's Kingdom is realized.

You want to read the story again with different information?

Revelation 13 occur in seals 1-4
Revelation 14 verses 1-11 occurs in seals 1-4

You are superimposing an order in the 1st half of Revelation upon the 2nd half of Revelation! This is not given in the Revelation itself! Where are the Seals mentioned as taking place in Rev 13?

Revelation 14:12-13 is the 5th seal.

Conclusion:
Revelation 6, 8,9,10,11 are read in order. Rev 7 is different, shown above.
Revelation 13, 14,15,16 are also read in order and are a different view of Rev 6, 8,9,10,11.

I can't do things this way. You are inserting your own views and words upon the Scriptures. I believe what I read--I need statements to believe in. I just don't superimpose one vision upon another vision to correlate them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How dishonest you are! I've cited Dan 7 as the original source of Postrib. I've cited the Olivet Discourse as Jesus' statement that he will *only* come when he comes from heaven. I've cited 2 Thes 2 where Paul doctrinally demands acceptance that Christ will only come when he comes to destroy Antichrist "with the breath of his mouth." I've cited Revelation as showing the dead are raised in the 1st resurrection, after Christians have been martyred by Antichrist.

I can't argue with a dishonest person. You can say anything you like, but it won't prove anything to you, because you don't care about what's true. You only care about "being right."

This is the kind of thing we have to deal with from these extremely immature chil...people. It's one thing to disagree, but for him to basically claim that you haven't attempted to support your view with scripture when you obviously have done that...it's just not worth dealing with people like that who can't just be honest about things.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why are you equating the tribulation which Scripture tells us is experienced by believers, with the wrath which Scripture tells us is experienced by unbelievers?

They're not the same.

Exactly. Plus, Revelation 3:10 has absolutely nothing to do with being taken out of the world (nothing to do with a rapture). The words "keep...from" in that verse are translated from the Greek words "tereo" and "ek" which are also used in this verse:

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep (tereo) them from (ek) the evil.

In this verse the words are used in the context of being protected while still in the world rather than being taken out of the world. Jesus even specifically prayed that His disciples not be taken out of the world.

 

[Peterlag]

The ancient Galilean wedding ceremony is the model for the rapture, specifically the pre-trib rapture. When the Scriptures are compared to the Galilean wedding ceremony, it explains the purpose of the rapture, why the church won’t go through the tribulation, and puts certain biblical passages into proper context. There are very few who understand the significance of the Galilean wedding ceremony, and even fewer who understand the parallels with the pre-trib rapture. That significance, however, would not have been lost on Jesus or His disciples, all of whom were Galilean except for Judas. Nor would it have been lost on the Galileans of the first century, whom Jesus spent most of His time around.

It may be no coincidence that Jesus’ first recorded miracle was turning water into wine at a Galilean wedding. It was as if He was trying to draw attention to the wedding for reasons that will soon become apparent. It’s been said that Jesus taught about the resurrection but not the rapture. Yet, when the words and actions of Jesus are compared with the Galilean wedding ceremony, a different picture emerges. Before we get to that picture, we must first understand the customs and culture that shaped the Galileans in Jesus’ day.

Galilee was originally settled by the tribes of Naphthali and Dan. After the Assyrian invasion in the eighth century BC, the northern ten tribes of Israel were dispersed throughout the vast Assyrian empire. In their place, Assyria repopulated the region with people from all the nations they conquered. In fact, the Book of Isaiah refers to the region as g'lil ha-goyím, meaning 'Galilee of the Nations' or 'Galilee of the Gentiles' (Isaiah 9:1).

Perhaps it was due to this foreign influence that the inhabitants of Galilee developed their own unique customs, traditions, and even speech that differed from the Jews in Judea. This is what made the Galilean wedding ceremony unique. Rabbi Judah (135–217 AD) said, “In Judea they made inquiry concerning the bridegroom and bride three days before the wedding: but in Galilee they did not so. In Judea they allowed the bridegroom and bride private company one hour before the wedding; but they did not so in Galilee. It was a custom in Judea that the married persons should have two friends, one of the family of the bridegroom, and the other of the family of the bride: but it was not so in Galilee. In Judea those friends slept in the same place where the bridegroom and bride slept: but in Galilee it was not so."

One objection may be: how do we know what an ancient Galilean wedding was like? That’s a fair question, however, we do know quite a bit about what a typical Jewish wedding was like in antiquity. And while there were variations between a Jewish wedding in Judea and a Jewish wedding in Galilee, there is enough overlap to give us a pretty good idea of what was involved. The rest can be pieced together from various sources, including the Bible, extra-biblical sources, historical records, rabbinic literature, archaeological findings, scholarly works, and so on, to give us a complete picture of the ceremony.

To best understand the parallels with the Galilean wedding ceremony and the parallels with the pre-trib rapture, we will need to examine an outline of the sequence of events and how they correspond to what Jesus and others spoke of in Scripture. The Galilean wedding ceremony can be divided into three distinct stages: contract, consummation, and celebration.

My teachers tell me there's not going to be a wedding and there's no bride. The Old Testament "bride" is just a figure of speech when God refers to Israel as a woman. Calls her a whore when they served other gods... etc. etc.

 

[Brakelite]

The Lord Himself....He will send His Angels...so which one is it? Can you see where this (*could possibly*) mean it is two events and not one event? Honestly. If not why not?

It's both. Coming in the clouds, means coming with angels. Jesus comes with His angels, shouts, with the trumpet, and the angels are sent to harvest.

2nd coming: The Saints return with the Lord to the earth.

There are no saints in heaven now, sorry from Moses and Elijah and Enoch and maybe a few others, and won't be until the resurrection. All the saints come back inside the new Jerusalem... At the end of the millennium.

2nd coming: is not imminent. It's 1260 days after the abomination of desolation

1260 days, 42 months, times time and a half, are all references to the same time, and are prophetic and symbolic. 1260 years. Also, there is no distinct reference to 7 years of tribulation.

2nd coming: He comes to the earth!

No, that's the third coming.

Rapture: He comes FOR His bride.
2nd coming: He comes WITH His bride

The church is not the bride. We are not Christ's marriage partner, we are guests at the wedding.

I do claim that there is a 7year tribulation and I do have scriptures for it. A few of them at least. It is very clear that it last for a time, times and half a time. That's 3.5 years ad then the great tribulation which last for time, times and half a time, or 1260 days. That's 3.5 years also. 3 1/2 + 3 1/2= 7.

Again, those times are symbolic. And they've all been fulfilled precisely in the past.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

My teachers tell me there's not going to be a wedding and there's no bride. The Old Testament "bride" is just a figure of speech when God refers to Israel as a woman. Calls her a whore when they served other gods... etc. etc.

We have too many people here who rely way too much on what their teachers tell them. Plus study this for yourself.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

 

[Peterlag]

We have too many people here who rely way too much on what their teachers tell them. Plus study this for yourself.

Acts 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Yeah I did that. Looked up every verse and studied it out. There's no wedding.

 

[Brakelite]

You and every postribber can not say who is left behind.

All we need to do is quote Jesus.
KJV Matthew 24:27-31, 39, 41
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
The disciples asked, where are they being taken, the ones left behind? Jesus said, where the eagles are gathered. They become food for scavengers. Bird food. That's what those left behind are. Carcases left to root on the earth. From one end o of the earth to the other. They shall not be buried, but be like dung upon the ground. On an earth that is utterly wasted and uninhabitable.

The Lord Himself comes for the bride.

The ten virgin's aren't the bride. They are the guests. And give refused to irritate themselves adequately for the marriage feast. Like the guest without the garment. Same scene. Guests. Not brides.

 

[Brakelite]

Yeah I did that. Looked up every verse and studied it out. There's no wedding.

What is the marriage supper of the Lamb?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There are no saints in heaven now, sorry from Moses and Elijah and Enoch and maybe a few others, and won't be until the resurrection. All the saints come back inside the new Jerusalem... At the end of the millennium.

What is the location of this scene, if not in heaven?

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

No, that's the third coming.

Scripture does not teach a third coming of Christ.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The church is not the bride. We are not Christ's marriage partner, we are guests at the wedding.

I couldn't disagree more. You are taking the parable of Matthew 22:1-14 too literally. Christians in the church are the guests who will have their wedding clothes on and become the bride while those guests who don't will be cast into outer darkness "where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". In a normal wedding there is obviously only one person who is the bride, so you should not think of the wedding described in the parable the same way you think of a normal wedding.

Who do you think is the bride then? The following scripture says the church is the bride.

Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Notice how throughout this passage Paul compares a husband and his wife to Christ and His church. Look at how Paul concludes this passage. He said it was a great mystery, but what he spoke about in the passage was concerning Christ and the church. And what did he speak about? Husbands loving their wives and he compared that to Christ loving the church. That makes the church the bride of Christ. This was a mystery in OT times, but the mystery was revealed by Paul. It shouldn't still be a mystery to you.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yeah I did that. Looked up every verse and studied it out. There's no wedding.

What do you mean by that exactly? Do you just mean there won't be a literal wedding? Surely, there will at least be a wedding in a figurative sense. How do you interpret this parable:

Matthew 22:1 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, 2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, 3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. 4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. 5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: 6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. 7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. 9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[The Light]

Exactly. Plus, Revelation 3:10 has absolutely nothing to do with being taken out of the world (nothing to do with a rapture). The words "keep...from" in that verse are translated from the Greek words "tereo" and "ek" which are also used in this verse:

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep (tereo) them from (ek) the evil.

In this verse the words are used in the context of being protected while still in the world rather than being taken out of the world. Jesus even specifically prayed that His disciples not be taken out of the world.

The disciples had to stay in the world to spread the faith. Jesus prayed to keep them from evil.

Whereas being kept from the hour of temptation that comes on the whole world speaks for itself.

There is door that no man can open or close that will keep us from that hour.

Additionally, those 24 elders with crowns are confirmation that Jesus has come.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The disciples had to stay in the world to spread the faith. Jesus prayed to keep them from evil.

Whereas being kept from the hour of temptation that comes on the whole world speaks for itself.

I think you are completely missing the point. The Greek words translated as "keep...from" (tereo and ek) are never used in terms of being taken out of the world, but rather in terms of being protected from something while in the world. Don't make up a definition for "tereo...ek" that doesn't exist. I see that so often on here. People make up definitions for words that don't exist in order to make scripture support their doctrines. It's ridiculous and wrong. Don't do that.

Beyond all that, why does anyone need to be taken out of the world to avoid temptation? God can't help us with that while we're still on the earth? Of course He can. There's no reason at all to interpret it the way you do. So, please rethink your understanding of Revelation 3:10.

 

[WPM]

The disciples had to stay in the world to spread the faith. Jesus prayed to keep them from evil.

Whereas being kept from the hour of temptation that comes on the whole world speaks for itself.

There is door that no man can open or close that will keep us from that hour.

Please read the phrase in question and the one that Pretribbers try to use to justify their beliefs: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep [Gr. tēreō] thee from [Gr. ek] the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Once again: there is nothing clear (or ambiguous) here that proves a rapture of the church, followed by any length of sustained tribulation followed by a 3rd coming, nothing. You need to be taught Pretrib and then force it into this text in order to see that. In fact, you have no proof-text anywhere in Scripture that states this.

What you miss is, the same assurance that we find in Revelation 3:10 is found in our Lord’s Prayer in John 17:15 (only it was written a few years before). The comparison cannot be lightly dismissed as both were penned by the same author in the same biblical time-period. Praying to His Father for His followers He petitioned: “I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep [Gr. tēreō] them from [Gr. ek] the evil.”

Other similar Scripture shows us the sense of the original Greek. But you also totally ignored that. Check #4385. It is impossible to get you to address the multiple holes in your argument.

Christ does not ask the Father to ‘take them out’ of the world with its existing tribulation, suffering and inherent evil, as the Pretrib argues, rather the opposite, but that by the power of His Spirit, He would “keep them from” the surrounding evil. This is the same thought that Christ is presenting in Revelation 3:10. Interestingly, a careful comparison between these two passages reveals the remarkable similarity in their import and word construction.

• “keep [Gr. tēreō] them from [Gr. ek] the evil” (John 17:15)
• “keep [Gr. tēreō] thee from [Gr. ek] the hour of temptation” (Revelation 3:10)

It is God's heart to protect His children. He did it in the OT and He did it in the New Testament. He did it yesterday, He does it today, and He will do it tomorrow. He did not rapture Israel from similar plagues in Egypt. He did not remove Rahab and her family before He destroyed Jericho. No, He preserved His elect and brought them through those fierce times of wrath. He did not remove Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego from the fiery furnace. He did not rescue Daniel from the lion’s den. No, He preserved His elect during times of intense persecution by the enemy.

 

[WPM]

Additionally, those 24 elders with crowns are confirmation that Jesus has come.

You keep making sweeping statements like this yet fail to give any evidence to support your speculations. That is because it doesn't support your thesis. You have already admitted: you have zero support for a Pretrib rapture in Revelation.