THE CONFIRMING OF THE COVENANT OF DANIEL 9:27

[Eternally Grateful]

Of course, you disagree.

The 62 weeks ended when Messiah the Prince was cut off. And at the same moment, He confirmed the final week when he shed his blood, just as Scripture I quoted said.

It is finished, Christ said.

Jesus confirmed an eternal co0venant. Not a 7 year covenant./

Nice try

Plus at the end of the 70th week. Christ returns. its been 2000 years now. he still has not returned.

 

[Davy]

Jesus confirmed an eternal co0venant. Not a 7 year covenant./

Nice try

Plus at the end of the 70th week. Christ returns. its been 2000 years now. he still has not returned.

I agree, but the Ellen White (SDA) crowd here will never agree, since they've been brainwashed by false prophets.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree, but the Ellen White (SDA) crowd here will never agree, since they've been brainwashed by false prophets.

Its not just them.. Most people do not agree.

 

[TribulationSigns]

LOL. At least you acknowledge it was a significant event. You have no explanation for why such a significant event was supposedly not prophesied in scripture.

Because it wasn't what Christ actually prophesied. You assumed wrong.

I'm not a Preterist. Are you so lacking in confidence in your own view that you have to be dishonest and mislabel me as a Preterist?

You are deceived by the Preterism doctrine over "one passage" of Olivet Discourse. Yeah, an amillennialist with a seasoning of Preterism.

Wrong. Should I say that you are taking some of the Gnostic playbook in your flawed doctrine?

Accusing someone of practicing gnosticism is an old excuse because you lack spiritual discernment.

Are you a clown? What is funny about that?

It is!

It wasn't just the destruction of the temple, but of their city and many of the people, also.

So? 70AD "destruction" was not prophesied by God. God said that their destruction already took place at the Cross. People destroyed the city and the sanctuary. They already lost their kingdom representative. Their physical temple means nothing. Their physical city means nothing. People are the stones of the temple, fell at the Cross.

They rejected Christ and His establishment of the new covenant and were trying to be saved under the old covenant instead, so they were punished for it.

Huh? No. Jews were punished FOR REJECT OF THE MESSIAH THE PRINCE. They rejected the cornerstone. The Old Covenant ended with the death of their Messiah at the Cross. Spiritually, they, the Jews, were made spiritually blind, their kingdom representative was taken, and their mouths were no longer used as a spokesperson for God's Kingdom. Their judgment is this plague:

Zec 14:12
(12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The sign was already given. No need to wait 37 years or so to have their physical temple to prove their judgment. They had already experienced judgment at the Cross, and the New Covenant Church was established. The Holy Spirit has come upon them. They got the great commission to go to the rest of the world with some Jews convert to Christianity. No need to wait for physical temple being destroyed.

The destruction of their temple showed that God found that to be unacceptable. They could not even perform animal sacrifices anymore without their precious temple that had already been rendered spiritually desolate well before that.

That is your opinion. But I do not see anywhere in Scripture that God used 70AD as part of prophecies.

You 100% don't get it. It is utterly ludicrous to think that God's wrath against the unbelieving Jews would not be prophesied anywhere in scripture.

You must be deaf. I said the judgment upon the builders (of the temple) who have rejected the cornerstone had already taken place, the cross. You were not satisfied with it because you insisted that the physical temple must be destroy too. LOL.

No kidding! Who said otherwise! Please give me the name of your straw man! LOL. Talk about not getting it. You don't even get who you're talking to. Address my beliefs instead of your straw man preterist's beliefs.

First, spiritually the old temple fell and Christ rebuilt it in three days. That was the sign to the Jews. Get it? The fall already took place, no need for physical fulfillment. I know where you come from because you still hold on to a piece of Preterism doctrine.

LOL. It was both! They were punished spiritually at the cross and physically in 70 AD.

Just as I thought. An amillennialist with a seasoning of Preterism. Your belief on this is incorrect.

That's only a small part of the Olivet Discourse.

LOL.

Jesus talked about the temple buildings (plural) being destroyed and you try to refute that with a scripture that talks about the temple building (singular) of His body being destroyed. You need to take an English course and learn the difference between singular words (temple building) and plural words (temple buildings).

Didn't Christ say buildings (plural) and not building? I know most Premillennialists like to ignore this fact, but it is what He said. In fact, did He not say all the buildings of the city? Indeed He did say that. Therefore, spending time arguing over whether it's the building of this house, or the particular building of that house, is totally irrelevant.

Your alleged facts are skewed, as the Temple foundation stones, laid one upon another, have not been all thrown down and are still left standing (one upon another) in DIRECT violation of Christ's words in His prophecy that they would not be. The foundation is the base of any building, and that is why Christ Himself is spoken of as the foundation stone of the Holy Temple. So, either Christ was wrong (heresy) about not one stone being left standing one upon another, He was just kidding (untenable), He was making a hyperbole (the excuse of choice for most pro- 70 AD theologians concerning this), or He wasn't talking about the literal/physical Temple building stones, but about spiritual stones of a Old Testament spiritual building. He was talking about a judgment on a people who were (and are) built up a spiritual house, but not upon literal bricks or stones. i.e., the stone the builders rejected is become head of the corner of a new building, after the stones of the Old Jerusalem were thrown down. Not one stone left standing one upon another, as that building is in ruins and another sprang up.

1st Corinthians 3:11-13

• "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
• Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
• Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

There are all sorts of buildings God spoke about, and all sorts of foundations, and all stones are not Gold, silver and precious stones.

As far as Josephus, Titus, or the Romans in 70 AD, that is not a Biblical interpretation at all, that is an assumption by people that Christ was speaking of a historical event (which didn't even qualify) when He said no stones would be left standing. The Temple in 70 AD was neither a Holy Place nor a place of God. Do you realize that the Holy Place in 70 A.D. was the New Testament church?! Hello? How could such a qualification be overlooked? Overlooked in an assumption not unlike the one made by those Pharisees who said that the Temple was forty-six years in building and asked how Jesus could rebuild it in 3 days. As we should know...

"...assumption is the mother of errors."

The leader Titus, slaughtered pigs in an allegedly Holy place, the raked city, 70AD, the Roman army, desecrations, Jews fleeing to physical mountains, etc., etc., that phenomenon is a secular interpretation masquerading as biblical Interpretation. It's convenient for a lot of theologians like yours, but unacceptable as an interpretation "from" the Biblical perspective. Desecration of a holy place in that "alleged" Holy Temple in Jerusalem (which necessarily wasn't the Holy Temple anymore), just doesn't qualify for the prophecy of Christ. It's a collage of assumptions, theories and contradictions.

Stop your foolishness already! I only interpret one passage the way they do and disagree with them on the rest! Stop slandering me and what I believe!

One passage... out of whole context of Olivet Discourse? It's inconsistent, and "inconsistency is the hallmark of error." :-)

 

[Douggg]

Titus in 70 A.D. served as a TYPE for the FINAL ANTICHRIST, just as Nebuchadnezzar did also. All that chart making has done nothing but create confusion for you.

The "little horn" of Daniel 7 & 8 that comes up from among the "ten horns", is about the END of this world also, as it is shown in the Rev.17 Scripture about the ten kings and the "beast" (king) which represents the "little horn", and that "little horn" will be the FINAL ANTICHRIST.

Davy, the bible does not actually use the term FINAL ANTICHRIST. Just "Antichrist".

I think in your thought organizing of the end times - you are viewing the Antichrist as a broad description of the person - with sub-titles being the little horn, the beast king, the revealed man of sin - yes ?

Your approach is common that many persons do when discussing the end times.

But please reconsider. Being the Anti-Christ is only for when the person is the king of Israel thought to be messiah.

Jesus was rejected as being the king of Israel messiah by his generation. When on the cross, the religious leaders mocked him says in Mark 15:31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save. 32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

To be "Anti" means to be against/instead of. So that to be the Antichrist, the person must be anointed the king of Israel thought-to-be messiah.

In his final stage, that of being the beast-king, he will be the dictator of the EU, no longer the king of Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jesus confirmed an eternal co0venant. Not a 7 year covenant./

Do you realize that the New Covenant is an eternal covenant with the Israel of God, Jesus Christ? We, Elect, are under eternal Covenant, which is the New Covenant. The rest within the congregation are merely a representation of the covenant but not truly saved. Many are called, few are chosen.

Nice try

No, its in the Bible.

Plus at the end of the 70th week. Christ returns. its been 2000 years now. he still has not returned.

Premillennialism garbage.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Because it wasn't what Christ actually prophesied. You assumed wrong.

LOL. Great argument there. Very convincing.

You are deceived by the Preterism doctrine over "one passage" of Olivet Discourse. Yeah, an amillennialist with a seasoning of Preterism.

You acted like I agree with their entire interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, which I do not. Not even close. So, you felt the need to lie to make yourself look better, which is pathetic.

Huh? No. Jews were punished FOR REJECT OF THE MESSIAH THE PRINCE. They rejected the cornerstone.

Hello? Is anyone home in there? That's what I said! This is hopeless. LOL. Wake up.

Didn't Christ say buildings (plural) and not building?

Yes, that's my point. He said buildings "plural" in what He said just before the Olivet Discourse.

Did He reference temple buildings (plural) or a temple building (singular) in this passage that is not part of the Olivet Discourse...

John 2:18 'Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Is the temple of His body a building (singular) or buildings (plural)? It's a building (singular), right? That's not what He was talking about here...

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

 

[Davy]

Davy, the bible does not actually use the term FINAL ANTICHRIST. Just "Antichrist".

I think in your thought organizing of the end times - you are viewing the Antichrist as a broad description of the person - with sub-titles being the little horn, the beast king, the revealed man of sin - yes ?

That above fairy tale story isn't good enough. Go back and see if you can't come up with better sounding excuse for NOT keeping God's Word as written. Maybe you'll do some more choppin' up of the Daniel 9 Scripture, I don't know what spirit... in the world is driving you.

 

[Douggg]

That above fairy tale story isn't good enough. Go back and see if you can't come up with better sounding excuse for NOT keeping God's Word as written. Maybe you'll do some more choppin' up of the Daniel 9 Scripture, I don't know what spirit... in the world is driving you.

Do you think that the Antichrist must be a Jew ?

 

[TribulationSigns]

You acted like I agree with their entire interpretation of the Olivet Discourse, which I do not. Not even close. So, you felt the need to lie to make yourself look better, which is pathetic.

Really? Let's test your claim:

1.) What do the war and rumors of war, famine, pestilences, and earthquake in divers places, Matthew 24:7, refers to?
2.) Who are the many false prophets that shall rise and deceive many, Matthew 24:11. When was that?
3.) And because the iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold, Matthew 24:13. When was that?

(Your favorite passage, Mattehw 24:15-16, that you believe is about 70AD out of context)

4.) HIm on housetop, not come down to take anything out of his house (what house is it?), Mattehw 24:17

5.) Him which in the field return back to take his clothes. What field is this? What clothes did the Lord talk about, Matthew 24:18?

6.) Woe to them that are with child, to them that give suck in those days, Mattehw 24:19. What is the child? Mother? When was that?

7.) Pray your flight not in the winter, or sabbath day, Matthew 24:20. Whwat winter and sabbath did the Lord talk about? Was it in 70AD?

8.) For then shall be great tribulation, never like before or after, Matthew 24:21. When was this? 70AD? Seriously?

9.) The days should be shortened, else there will be no flesh saved. For elects' sakes, those days hall be shortened, Matthew 24:22. When was that? 70AD, humm??

10.) Man shall say to you, here is Christ or there, believe it not, Matthew 24:24. When was that?

11.) There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, who will device the very elect, if possible, Matthew 24:24. Was it in 70AD? If not, when?

12.) Do you know what desert and secret chambers Lord talked about in verse 26? Was it in 70AD?

13. Wheresoever, the Carcase is, there will be eagles be tethered together, Matthew 24:28. What is carcase the Lord talked about here? Who are the gathering Eagles? Did it occur in 70AD?

So prove yourself that you deny that you agree with the teaching of Preterism on these verses in context.

Hello? Is anyone home in there? That's what I said! This is hopeless. LOL. Wake up.

No, you need to wake up from spiritual sleep.

Yes, that's my point. He said buildings "plural" in what He said just before the Olivet Discourse.

Did He reference temple buildings (plural) or a temple building (singular) in this passage that is not part of the Olivet Discourse...

John 2:18 'Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

Is the temple of His body a building (singular) or buildings (plural)? It's a building (singular), right? That's not what He was talking about here...

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down

You don't get it. Temple building, temple buildings, city buildings, all pointing to the spiritual congregation of Israel - the body of His temple. All built with the STONES, which God saw as HIS PEOPLE. Duh!

 

[Douggg]

Really? Let's test your claim:

1.) What do the war and rumors of war, famine, pestilences, and earthquake in divers places, Matthew 24:7, refers to?
2.) Who are the many false prophets that shall rise and deceive many, Matthew 24:11. When was that?
3.) And because the iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold, Matthew 24:13. When was that?

(Your favorite passage, Mattehw 24:15-16, that you believe is about 70AD out of context)

4.) HIm on housetop, not come down to take anything out of his house (what house is it?), Mattehw 24:17

5.) Him which in the field return back to take his clothes. What field is this? What clothes did the Lord talk about, Matthew 24:18?

6.) Woe to them that are with child, to them that give suck in those days, Mattehw 24:19. What is the child? Mother? When was that?

7.) Pray your flight not in the winter, or sabbath day, Matthew 24:20. Whwat winter and sabbath did the Lord talk about? Was it in 70AD?

8.) For then shall be great tribulation, never like before or after, Matthew 24:21. When was this? 70AD? Seriously?

9.) The days should be shortened, else there will be no flesh saved. For elects' sakes, those days hall be shortened, Matthew 24:22. When was that? 70AD, humm??

10.) Man shall say to you, here is Christ or there, believe it not, Matthew 24:24. When was that?

11.) There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, who will device the very elect, if possible, Matthew 24:24. Was it in 70AD? If not, when?

12.) Do you know what desert and secret chambers Lord talked about in verse 26? Was it in 70AD?

13. Wheresoever, the Carcase is, there will be eagles be tethered together, Matthew 24:28. What is carcase the Lord talked about here? Who are the gathering Eagles? Did it occur in 70AD?

So prove yourself that you deny that you agree with the teaching of Preterism on these verses in context.



No, you need to wake up from spiritual sleep.



You don't get it. Temple building, temple buildings, city buildings, all pointing to the spiritual congregation of Israel - the body of His temple. All built with the STONES, which God saw as HIS PEOPLE. Duh!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Word of God's response:



God did not divide the Olivet Discourse into different sections of time to fit your flawed doctrine, Douggg!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Really?

Yes, really. I don't make things up.

Let's test your claim:

Gladly. Test all of my claims. I will back them all up.

1.) What do the war and rumors of war, famine, pestilences, and earthquake in divers places, Matthew 24:7, refers to?

Things that would occur from that time on but they would not indicate that the end has come yet. I believe He was saying that they would indicate that the end of the age when Jesus returns was getting closer as they increase in frequency, but not at hand just yet. He said those things were the beginning of sorrows, so those things are not the things that would tell us that His coming is near.

2.) Who are the many false prophets that shall rise and deceive many, Matthew 24:11. When was that?

I believe He was referring to Satan's little season there. I believe Satan's little season likely has already begun in recent times.

3.) And because the iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold, Matthew 24:13. When was that?

Same as #2.

(Your favorite passage, Mattehw 24:15-16, that you believe is about 70AD out of context)

4.) HIm on housetop, not come down to take anything out of his house (what house is it?), Mattehw 24:17

5.) Him which in the field return back to take his clothes. What field is this? What clothes did the Lord talk about, Matthew 24:18?

6.) Woe to them that are with child, to them that give suck in those days, Mattehw 24:19. What is the child? Mother? When was that?

7.) Pray your flight not in the winter, or sabbath day, Matthew 24:20. Whwat winter and sabbath did the Lord talk about? Was it in 70AD?

8.) For then shall be great tribulation, never like before or after, Matthew 24:21. When was this? 70AD? Seriously?

9.) The days should be shortened, else there will be no flesh saved. For elects' sakes, those days hall be shortened, Matthew 24:22. When was that? 70AD, humm??

Yep, 70 AD. Yes, seriously. He said let those in Judea flee to the mountains, not those in all the world. He was clearly referring to local tribulation there, not global tribulation. The times of the Gentiles has followed that event (Luke 21:20-24).

10.) Man shall say to you, here is Christ or there, believe it not, Matthew 24:24. When was that?

During the times of the Gentiles after 70 AD up until the current time. It might pertain mostly to Satan's little season, though.

11.) There shall arise false christs, and false prophets, who will device the very elect, if possible, Matthew 24:24. Was it in 70AD? If not, when?

No, it was not in 70 AD. That is talking about Satan's little season again because there is increased deception during that time.

12.) Do you know what desert and secret chambers Lord talked about in verse 26? Was it in 70AD?

No, it was not in 70 AD. That verse relates to verses 23 to 25 that came before it. The verse is saying not to believe it if someone says He is there, whether it's outside or inside. He would not be anywhere on the earth because He is not coming to the earth as we know it. We are meeting Him in the air (1 Thess 4:14-17) at which point He will send fire on the earth and renew it, resulting in the new earth.

13. Wheresoever, the Carcase is, there will be eagles be tethered together, Matthew 24:28. What is carcase the Lord talked about here? Who are the gathering Eagles? Did it occur in 70AD?

It did not occur in 70 AD. What Jesus was saying there lines up with what He taught in Luke 17:26-37 where He indicated that when He comes again in the future every person in the world will either be taken up to Him or left behind and killed with their dead bodies serving as bird food, similar to what is written in Revelation 19:17-18.

Many preterists believe the rest of the verses in the Olivet Discourse are about 70 AD as well, but I believe they all relate to the future second coming of Christ. So, your claim that I interpret the Olivet Discourse just like them was foolish and false.

So prove yourself that you deny that you agree with the teaching of Preterism on these verses in context.

LOL. I don't need to prove myself to anyone, but I went ahead and showed that I do not believe all those verses refer to 70 AD as you falsely thought was the case. Jesus was asked two different questions about two different events and He went back and forth answering them. He was not obligated to answer them in any particular order.

No, you need to wake up from spiritual sleep.

LOL. Says the spiritually sleeping guy who cannot discern the difference between buildings (plural) and a building (singular).

You don't get it. Temple building, temple buildings, city buildings, all pointing to the spiritual congregation of Israel - the body of His temple. All built with the STONES, which God saw as HIS PEOPLE. Duh!

LOL. You are a child. Where did Jesus mention anyone but Himself being destroyed in John 2:18-21? Nowhere. He spoke only of the temple of His own body there. One building. Duh! You are not even thinking here.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Things that would occur from that time on but they would not indicate that the end has come yet. I believe He was saying that they would indicate that the end of the age when Jesus returns was getting closer as they increase in frequency, but not at hand just yet. He said those things were the beginning of sorrows, so those things are not the things that would tell us that His coming is near.

I asked you a question for you to explain specifically what the war, famine, pestilences and earthquake refers to? What are those exactly? Are they literal event or spiritual event of the New Testament Congregation.

I believe He was referring to Satan's little season there. I believe Satan's little season likely has already begun in recent times.

Good start.

Same as #2.

Do you know why the iniquity shall abound? The love of many grow cold? Why exactly?

Yep, 70 AD. Yes, seriously. He said let those in Judea flee to the mountains, not those in all the world. He was clearly referring to local tribulation there, not global tribulation. The times of the Gentiles has followed that event (Luke 21:20-24).

I knew you would misunderstand. I understand why you see Judea as a literal place in the Middle East, with actual mountains in Jordan or somewhere similar. I used to believe that too, but I no longer do. In the context of the Olivet Discourse, God is talking about New Testament here as Judea represents a type of congregation. We are the "Jews" in Christ who need to flee from churches where they "see" the abomination of desolation (the inquiry shall abound) and seek refuge in the Mountains of God, if you understand what that means. It’s not about fleeing to some literal mountains from the Romans. That’s where we seem to disagree. You can’t take a single passage out of the broader context to support your doctrine regarding 70 AD; it simply doesn’t work that way.

During the times of the Gentiles after 70 AD up until the current time. It might pertain mostly to Satan's little season, though.

Do you really understand what is the times of the Gentiles? This has nothing with the "Gentiles" in the Middle East in 70AD. The spiritual Gentiles are oppose of Spiritual Jews (us as Christians). THe unsaved or the professed believers of the congregation. They are the one who will make church fall and take control for a time called "the time of the gentiles." It is actually Satan's little season. This has nothing to do whatsoever with Gentiles in 70AD.

No, it was not in 70 AD.

Of course, there are false prophets and false Christs who will claim that their church has Christ, but you won’t actually 'see' Him there (ie. for he is in secret chamber). Instead, all you will see is the abomination of desolation, which only you and all True Sealed Christians can "recognize" and are moved to come out of her. It's time for us to flee, while the others (the spiritual Gentiles) remain there. These are the very individuals whom God warned would be subject to Satan's locusts - the false prophets and christs to be deceived because they have not yet been sealed by God, Revelation 9."

That is talking about Satan's little season again because there is increased deception during that time.

Yes. Little Season is the time of the Gentiles.

No, it was not in 70 AD.

Very good.

That verse relates to verses 23 to 25 that came before it. The verse is saying not to believe it if someone says He is there, whether it's outside or inside. He would not be anywhere on the earth because He is not coming to the earth as we know it. We are meeting Him in the air (1 Thess 4:14-17) at which point He will send fire on the earth and renew it, resulting in the new earth.

That is not quite accurate. God is warning us not to follow them who claim that they have Christ, ie. the power of Christ/holy spirit/good prophet/good preacher) at their church,es for she is under judgment of God that you can "see" what is going on. Nothing to do about where they believer Christ will be physically at.

It did not occur in 70 AD. What Jesus was saying there lines up with what He taught in Luke 17:26-37 where He indicated that when He comes again in the future every person in the world will either be taken up to Him or left behind and killed with their dead bodies serving as bird food, similar to what is written in Revelation 19:17-18.

I understand your perspective, but I disagree. The event surrounding the carcass and the gathering of eagles will not occur at the Second Coming. Rather, it represents the judgment of the church, illustrating that the church is spiritually dead, a carcass. Jesus CHrist is ultimate Eagles, but because we represents Him, we are eagles and are prophesying and warning of her impending judgment, much like the merchants of the earth in Revelation 18 who mourned over her because no one is buying the merchandise of salvation anymore—the church is lifeless. That is what in picture.

When we issue these warnings about judgment, we see the apostasy and desolation of the churches in various places, and our enemies will mock us, just as Lot's sons-in-law ridiculed him for warning about God's destruction of Sodom. It’s a similar situation.

However, this is not the Second Coming or the rapture yet; first, we must witness the judgment of the church (the hour of judgment, spiritually speaking). This indicates that Christ's return is imminent, as we observe these signs. There is no need to set specific dates.

Many preterists believe the rest of the verses in the Olivet Discourse are about 70 AD as well, but I believe they all relate to the future second coming of Christ. So, your claim that I interpret the Olivet Discourse just like them was foolish and false.

Well you did use some extra verses like 17-20 to refer to 70AD as I thought!

LOL. I don't need to prove myself to anyone, but I went ahead and showed that I do not believe all those verses refer to 70 AD as you falsely thought was the case.

See above.

LOL. Says the spiritually sleeping guy who cannot discern the difference between buildings (plural) and a building (singular).

Patting on your back sarcastically.

LOL. You are a child. Where did Jesus mention anyone but Himself being destroyed in John 2:18-21? Nowhere. He spoke only of the temple of His own body there. One building. Duh! You are not even thinking here.

Is Christ the Holy City? Is Christ the temple? Is Christ the great city with us as the stones, like the Jews were? :-)

By the way, what is a fig tree (and all other trees) that the Lord talked about? What about the generation? How long is this generation?

 

[Davy]

Davy, the bible does not actually use the term FINAL ANTICHRIST. Just "Antichrist".

Indirectly... it does. That because Apostle John said the brethren had already heard that "antichrist shall come", meaning a SINGULAR ANTICHRIST, and that there were "many antichrists" already at work. Surely you've read that 1 John 2:18 Scripture. And John was referring to what Lord Jesus said on that subject per John 14:30...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
KJV

Jesus said the above in connection with John 12:31 about the prince of this world being cast out, which is about the future time of "great tribulation" when Satan and his angels will be cast out of the heavenly down to this earth at the end, per Revelation 12:7-17. If you are not aware of that, but have believed some doctrine of men, like it already happened at the cross, or even back at Satan's original fall, then you are way behind on Bible prophecy about the end of this world.

So if you'd rather stay deceived about the coming ANTICHRIST/false-Messiah at the end of this world, then that's your choice. But even the early Church fathers recognized this prophecy at the end of the world about the coming Antichrist. The 16th century Protestant Reformers even had mistaken that prophesied Antichrist as being the Catholic pope in their day, but the Bible prophecy about it did not happen then, nor has it occurred yet to this day.

And FYI, per the Greek meaning of the word 'antichrist', Greek anti can mean 'instead of' or 'in place of' (NT:473). And that is exactly what the pseudo-Christ is that Jesus warned about that is coming at the end, and the "man of sin" that Paul warned about for the end.

I think in your thought organizing of the end times - you are viewing the Antichrist as a broad description of the person - with sub-titles being the little horn, the beast king, the revealed man of sin - yes ?

The coming Antichrist will be the devil himself, cast OUT of the heavenly dimension, down to this earth, in OUR earthly dimension. How's that for your confusion of who the final Antichrist will be? You must have torn out the following Scripture from your Bible...

Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

Your approach is common that many persons do when discussing the end times.

That's an ignorant statement, because it assumes that you are in a position of Bible understanding above everyone else, when in fact, there is MUCH of The Bible that you do not understand, which is why... you often follow doctrines and traditions of men instead of The Bible as actually written. I feel sorry for those brethren who listen to you, as you and they both are going to fall in the ditch if you don't wake up and heed God's Word as it is actually written.

But please reconsider. Being the Anti-Christ is only for when the person is the king of Israel thought to be messiah.

What do you think the idea of a 'final' Antichrist means? Is English not your first language? I can understand your thinking a bit better maybe if English were not... your original language of birth.

"many antichrists" = many false Christs that only CLAIM to be Jesus Christ. Those have been happening throughout Christian history, and still happen to this day. Yet those "many antichrists" Jesus did not describe as having the power of miracles, the great signs and wonders. These even include the 'beast' kings of ancient history, like Pharoah, king of Tyre, king of Babylon, etc. They all represented part of the "many antichrists" idea of Apostle John, which is actually what Paul's "mystery of iniquity" is about that began in God's Garden of Eden with Satan as that old serpent deceiving Eve that if she ate of the fruit God commanded not to eat, that she would become as gods. Satan wanting to be GOD is how he actually committed the very first sin in the old world when he fell. WAKE UP!

"antichrist" = the FINAL Antichrist at the END of this world, that will... have the power of great signs and wonders and miracles, to deceive the whole... world, except Christ's very elect. That will be the pseudo-Christ Jesus warned about for the end in Matthew 24:23-26 which is SINGULAR in context. It will be the coming "man of sin" at the END, to sit in a REBUILT Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the end which Apostle Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2.


Hippolytus of Rome (circa 175-235 A.D.) said the following about the coming Antichrist at the end:

Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand. ​

(from Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, at earlychristianwritings.com)​

How is it that Hippolytus understood those above things even back in his days of the 2nd century A.D., and you do not?

Hippolytus understood those things because of staying... in God's Word as written. The Book of Daniel, Chapter 11, is one of the places where it is revealed the FINAL Antichrist at the END of this world will be made king over the kingdom of Israel at Jerusalem.

And when Apostle Paul revealed that future Antichrist will come to sit in the "temple of God", Paul was pointing to the idea of the traditional stone temple of the Jews in Jerusalem. That is why Hippolytus said that coming Antichrist "...will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem."

 

[Douggg]

Indirectly... it does. That because Apostle John said the brethren had already heard that "antichrist shall come", meaning a SINGULAR ANTICHRIST, and that there were "many antichrists" already at work. Surely you've read that 1 John 2:18 Scripture. And John was referring to what Lord Jesus said on that subject per John 14:30...

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
KJV

Jesus said the above in connection with John 12:31 about the prince of this world being cast out, which is about the future time of "great tribulation" when Satan and his angels will be cast out of the heavenly down to this earth at the end, per Revelation 12:7-17. If you are not aware of that, but have believed some doctrine of men, like it already happened at the cross, or even back at Satan's original fall, then you are way behind on Bible prophecy about the end of this world.

So if you'd rather stay deceived about the coming ANTICHRIST/false-Messiah at the end of this world, then that's your choice. But even the early Church fathers recognized this prophecy at the end of the world about the coming Antichrist. The 16th century Protestant Reformers even had mistaken that prophesied Antichrist as being the Catholic pope in their day, but the Bible prophecy about it did not happen then, nor has it occurred yet to this day.

And FYI, per the Greek meaning of the word 'antichrist', Greek anti can mean 'instead of' or 'in place of' (NT:473). And that is exactly what the pseudo-Christ is that Jesus warned about that is coming at the end, and the "man of sin" that Paul warned about for the end.




The coming Antichrist will be the devil himself, cast OUT of the heavenly dimension, down to this earth, in OUR earthly dimension. How's that for your confusion of who the final Antichrist will be? You must have torn out the following Scripture from your Bible...

Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV



That's an ignorant statement, because it assumes that you are in a position of Bible understanding above everyone else, when in fact, there is MUCH of The Bible that you do not understand, which is why... you often follow doctrines and traditions of men instead of The Bible as actually written. I feel sorry for those brethren who listen to you, as you and they both are going to fall in the ditch if you don't wake up and heed God's Word as it is actually written.


What do you think the idea of a 'final' Antichrist means? Is English not your first language? I can understand your thinking a bit better maybe if English were not... your original language of birth.

"many antichrists" = many false Christs that only CLAIM to be Jesus Christ. Those have been happening throughout Christian history, and still happen to this day. Yet those "many antichrists" Jesus did not describe as having the power of miracles, the great signs and wonders. These even include the 'beast' kings of ancient history, like Pharoah, king of Tyre, king of Babylon, etc. They all represented part of the "many antichrists" idea of Apostle John, which is actually what Paul's "mystery of iniquity" is about that began in God's Garden of Eden with Satan as that old serpent deceiving Eve that if she ate of the fruit God commanded not to eat, that she would become as gods. Satan wanting to be GOD is how he actually committed the very first sin in the old world when he fell. WAKE UP!

"antichrist" = the FINAL Antichrist at the END of this world, that will... have the power of great signs and wonders and miracles, to deceive the whole... world, except Christ's very elect. That will be the pseudo-Christ Jesus warned about for the end in Matthew 24:23-26 which is SINGULAR in context. It will be the coming "man of sin" at the END, to sit in a REBUILT Jewish temple in Jerusalem for the end which Apostle Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2.


Hippolytus of Rome (circa 175-235 A.D.) said the following about the coming Antichrist at the end:

Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand. ​

(from Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, at earlychristianwritings.com)​

How is it that Hippolytus understood those above things even back in his days of the 2nd century A.D., and you do not?

Hippolytus understood those things because of staying... in God's Word as written. The Book of Daniel, Chapter 11, is one of the places where it is revealed the FINAL Antichrist at the END of this world will be made king over the kingdom of Israel at Jerusalem.

And when Apostle Paul revealed that future Antichrist will come to sit in the "temple of God", Paul was pointing to the idea of the traditional stone temple of the Jews in Jerusalem. That is why Hippolytus said that coming Antichrist "...will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem."

Do you think that the Antichrist must be a Jew ?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I asked you a question for you to explain specifically what the war, famine, pestilences and earthquake refers to? What are those exactly? Are they literal event or spiritual event of the New Testament Congregation.

Why didn't you make that clear then, buddy? You only asked about my understanding of WHEN these things would take place. You need to take a class on how to communicate. They are literal, physical events. Jesus was making the point that it would not be literal, physical events that would show that His coming is near, but rather spiritual things like persecution and increased deception, apostasy and wickedness that would indicate that His coming at the end of the age is near.

Good start.

Oh, gee, thanks.

Do you know why the iniquity shall abound? The love of many grow cold? Why exactly?

I sure do, buddy. You saw that I said it relates to Satan's little season, right? So, it's because of Satan being loosed. What Jesus said in Matthew 24:9-13 is all related. It results from being deceived by false prophets and such.

I knew you would misunderstand.

LOL. I knew that you would be wrong in thinking I would misunderstand.

I understand why you see Judea as a literal place in the Middle East, with actual mountains in Jordan or somewhere similar. I used to believe that too, but I no longer do.

Too bad. You allowed yourself to be deluded into thinking that Jesus had nothing to say about the temple buildings being destroyed despite being asked about it.

In the context of the Olivet Discourse, God is talking about New Testament here as Judea represents a type of congregation. We are the "Jews" in Christ who need to flee from churches where they "see" the abomination of desolation (the inquiry shall abound) and seek refuge in the Mountains of God, if you understand what that means.

I understand that you spiritualize things for no good reason. Tell me, why did Jesus say it would be more difficult for pregnant women and nursing mothers to flee? Tell me, why did Jesus say that they should pray that they wouldn't have to flee in the winter or on the Sabbath? I can't wait to see how you spiritualize all that.

It’s not about fleeing to some literal mountains from the Romans. That’s where we seem to disagree.

Where we seem to disagree? No, I'm pretty sure we do disagree on that.

You can’t take a single passage out of the broader context to support your doctrine regarding 70 AD; it simply doesn’t work that way.

Whatever. I am not convinced by your argument even a tiny bit.

Do you really understand what is the times of the Gentiles? This has nothing with the "Gentiles" in the Middle East in 70AD.

Yes, it does because it relates to the times after armies surrounded Jerusalem before making it desolate, as the Roman armies did in 70 AD. What is your problem with believing that event was prophesied, anyway? You don't have to be a preterist to believe that, as I'm proving to you, so what is your deal with that?

The spiritual Gentiles are oppose of Spiritual Jews (us as Christians). THe unsaved or the professed believers of the congregation. They are the one who will make church fall and take control for a time called "the time of the gentiles." It is actually Satan's little season. This has nothing to do whatsoever with Gentiles in 70AD.

Yes, it does. We disagree, as you said you seemed to think was the case.

Of course, there are false prophets and false Christs who will claim that their church has Christ, but you won’t actually 'see' Him there (ie. for he is in secret chamber). Instead, all you will see is the abomination of desolation, which only you and all True Sealed Christians can "recognize" and are moved to come out of her. It's time for us to flee, while the others (the spiritual Gentiles) remain there. These are the very individuals whom God warned would be subject to Satan's locusts - the false prophets and christs to be deceived because they have not yet been sealed by God, Revelation 9."

You are trying to relate unrelated scriptures. Oh well. You be you, buddy. At least we agree on Satan's little season taking place just before Jesus returns, so we have some common ground there.

Very good.

LOL. I wish I could say your approval means something to me, but it does not.

That is not quite accurate. God is warning us not to follow them who claim that they have Christ, ie. the power of Christ/holy spirit/good prophet/good preacher) at their church,es for she is under judgment of God that you can "see" what is going on. Nothing to do about where they believer Christ will be physically at.

Agree to disagree. At least we agree on the timing of it.

I understand your perspective, but I disagree.

So, if you understand my perspective then why are you treating me so childishly instead of acting like an adult and disagreeing respectfully?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The event surrounding the carcass and the gathering of eagles will not occur at the Second Coming. Rather, it represents the judgment of the church, illustrating that the church is spiritually dead, a carcass. Jesus CHrist is ultimate Eagles, but because we represents Him, we are eagles and are prophesying and warning of her impending judgment, much like the merchants of the earth in Revelation 18 who mourned over her because no one is buying the merchandise of salvation anymore—the church is lifeless. That is what in picture.

When we issue these warnings about judgment, we see the apostasy and desolation of the churches in various places, and our enemies will mock us, just as Lot's sons-in-law ridiculed him for warning about God's destruction of Sodom. It’s a similar situation.

However, this is not the Second Coming or the rapture yet; first, we must witness the judgment of the church (the hour of judgment, spiritually speaking). This indicates that Christ's return is imminent, as we observe these signs. There is no need to set specific dates.

I don't find any of this to be convincing. Please tell me how you interpret this passage (compare Luke 17:37 to Matthew 24:28):

Luke 17:26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [a] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

Well you did use some extra verses like 17-20 to refer to 70AD as I thought!

Yeah, so? Preterists apply a lot more verses in the Olivet Discourse to 70 AD than I do, but you wouldn't believe me. I had to prove it to you. Why would I make that up?

Is Christ the Holy City?

No, not by Himself. The holy city is the church. Christ is the cornerstone of the holy city new Jerusalem which is "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9).

Is Christ the temple?

Silly question. There is not just one temple. In John 2:18-21 His body is the temple. But, He is the cornerstone of the temple of God, which is the church (Ephesians 2:19-22).

Is Christ the great city with us as the stones, like the Jews were?

He is the cornerstone of the church with the foundation of the apostles and prophets (Eph 2:19-22) and we all are stones in it (1 Peter 2:5-9).

By the way, what is a fig tree (and all other trees) that the Lord talked about?

Since we're talking about the Olivet Discourse, I assume you're talking about this passage, though it doesn't mention "and all other trees":

Matthew 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

In this passage, the fig tree does not represent anything in particular. The point Jesus was making here is that similar to how a fig tree's leaves coming out means that summer is near, seeing the things He talked about (particularly in relation to the increased deception and wickedness and such), occur would mean that His second coming was near.

What about the generation? How long is this generation?

The first thing to understand about "THIS generation", is that it's not "THAT generation", which means "THIS generation" existed at the time Jesus was speaking. The word "generation" is translated from the Greek word "genea" which has several definitions, one of which is race or a type of people. That's how I understand it in that verse. Jesus was talking to Jews so He was saying the Jewish race would not pass away until the things He talked about were all fulfilled at His second coming. At which point heaven and earth would pass away (Matt 24:35).

 

[Davy]

Do you think that the Antichrist must be a Jew ?

I believe what Hippolytus said about that.

Didn't you bother to read what Hippolytus said that I quoted?

 

[Douggg]

I believe what Hippolytus said about that.

Didn't you bother to read what Hippolytus said that I quoted?

Did Hyppolytus say that the Antichrist must be a Jew ? Yes or no ?